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dazparra

Lanfear (Cyndane)

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I know there has been much discussion on Lanfear and the end of the last book, whether or not she is setting a trap for Rand, personally i think she is just being punished by moridin and is finally learning the truth about the dark one and ready to walk in the light again.

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I know there has been much discussion on Lanfear and the end of the last book, whether or not she is setting a trap for Rand, personally i think she is just being punished by moridin and is finally learning the truth about the dark one and ready to walk in the light again.

 

Its very likely that her behavior is the result of a "last chance" given to her by Shadar Haran to turn Rand

 

 

Fish

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I know there has been much discussion on Lanfear and the end of the last book, whether or not she is setting a trap for Rand, personally i think she is just being punished by moridin and is finally learning the truth about the dark one and ready to walk in the light again.

 

To quote Terry Pratchett of Discworld books misquoting the Old Testament:

"The leopard does not change his shorts."

("Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?

Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

(Jeremiah 13:23))

 

I think that Lanfear is doing the same business at the same old stand.

As was said of Asmodean: "He is still the same man he always was."

 

Ingtar went to the shadow because he wanted to be on the winning side.

 

Lanfear went to the shadow for power and control.

Even if she does currently want the Dragon to free her and it is not some

trap for him it isn't because she wants to return to the Light.

 

So I don't really believe Lanfear will "change her shorts" as Pratchett says.

 

JMO

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But if the DO, and/or Moridin have decided to punish her for eternity or something like that, then obviously she'd look for help.

 

It may be a trap, but I don't think it's hers. I think it would be Moridin's trap.

 

Just as you say, she's in if for the Power, well clearly she's not going to get that from the shadow anymore, so it's not actually against her character to look back to LTT for what she wants.

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Ive turned this over in my head a few times and Im not so sure its a trap. If im not mistaken she was looking for power when she opened the dark ones prison but it doesnt say anywhere that she was looking to free him or loose the shadow onto the world. For all we know when the explosion happened she was captured and turned by the shadow against her will. Im not saying shes a poor victim we should all feel sorry for but unlike the other forsaken maybe she didnt know what she was getting herself into. Maybe what we see captured is the part of her soul thats untainted and tortured since the breaking. Im not saying its likely or that i believe it but i think it possible that she was more forced into what she has become than the others. Maybe she was given a choice to die right when the prison opened or serve the do and she chose life, became a monster and so on, but that to me seems a lesser crime than the ones who joined the other side out of pure malice. If any of that were to be true i could see her begging ltt for help

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But if the DO, and/or Moridin have decided to punish her for eternity or something like that, then obviously she'd look for help.

 

It may be a trap, but I don't think it's hers. I think it would be Moridin's trap.

 

Just as you say, she's in if for the Power, well clearly she's not going to get that from the shadow anymore, so it's not actually against her character to look back to LTT for what she wants.

 

I was thinking the same thing. If Lanfear really is being tortured, that allows Moridin (and the DO) to not only see how loyal she is, but also lure Rand into a trap. Like Tywin Lannister said, a feigned rout (or, in this case, suffering) is less convincing. The DO has already used Semirhage, so he could very well do the same with Lanfear.

 

That said, I don't believe she would turn back to the light. She wants power, and that's something she could never have with the Light.

 

Ive turned this over in my head a few times and Im not so sure its a trap. If im not mistaken she was looking for power when she opened the dark ones prison but it doesnt say anywhere that she was looking to free him or loose the shadow onto the world. For all we know when the explosion happened she was captured and turned by the shadow against her will. Im not saying shes a poor victim we should all feel sorry for but unlike the other forsaken maybe she didnt know what she was getting herself into. Maybe what we see captured is the part of her soul thats untainted and tortured since the breaking. Im not saying its likely or that i believe it but i think it possible that she was more forced into what she has become than the others. Maybe she was given a choice to die right when the prison opened or serve the do and she chose life, became a monster and so on, but that to me seems a lesser crime than the ones who joined the other side out of pure malice. If any of that were to be true i could see her begging ltt for help

 

She wasn't forced into anything. This is from RJ:

 

Beidomon was a male Aes Sedai, and a research genius, who believed that they were onto something great. The drilling of the Bore itself caused great damage, and Beidomon, Lanfear and others involved were blamed for that. Once it became clear what had actually happened, the opprobrium increased, and Beidomon sought obscurity, finally committing suicide when he was unable to achieve it. Everyone knew his name, and what he had done. He had nowhere to hide.

 

As an aside, for those who think that Lanfear was in some way twisted against her will by being involved in drilling the Bore---I have heard the theory advanced---of all those involved in the project, she was the only major figure to go over to the Shadow. She was ripe for the Shadow's plucking long before the Bore was drilled.

Edited by Master Ablar

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Ive turned this over in my head a few times and Im not so sure its a trap. If im not mistaken she was looking for power when she opened the dark ones prison but it doesnt say anywhere that she was looking to free him or loose the shadow onto the world. For all we know when the explosion happened she was captured and turned by the shadow against her will.

 

Actually we know that isn't true.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005

As an aside, for those who think that Lanfear was in some way twisted against her will by being involved in drilling the Bore---I have heard the theory advanced---of all those involved in the project, she was the only major figure to go over to the Shadow. She was ripe for the Shadow's plucking long before the Bore was drilled.

 

She had major character flaws which held her back from getting the third name and led her down the path towards joining the shadow. I have always thought the quote below gives a strong handle on her personality.

 

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato from RJ - 1 February 1994

Lanfear holding back and doing good for Rand's sake? Ha! She was psychically fixed on possessing a man who never loved her. Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him. To be the one to deliver the Dragon Reborn to the service of the Shadow; that would set her above the other Forsaken. And learning that the access ter'angreal for the two huge sa'angreal were still in existence....Sure, she wanted his love--not least because it had been denied her; Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted--wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator. For Rand's sake? Not a chance.

 

This is indeed her "last chance" and she is trying once again to do something similar to the bolded part above.

Edited by Suttree

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The problem I have with this being a trap is the following:

 

1) How could anyone expect Rand to recognize her with an entirely different body? It is absurd to just assume he can recognize her soul. Furthermore, if it was a trap then Lanfear would likely appear with her old body in the dream to ensure that Rand recognized her and fell for the bait.

 

2) Why on earth would ANYONE assume that Rand would actually help her??? This is a pretty big point here. Rand hates the Forsaken, and Moiraine died (as far as everyone knows so far at least) saving Rand from her. So what on earth would cause anyone to suspect that Rand would lift a finger to help Lanfear now? Especially considering how hard and psychotic Rand has become (prior to VoG revelation).

 

Yes, the above can be explained away....but to just say that Lanfear/Moridin decided Rand would probably recognize her soul in a dream and would just fall into trying to save her like a total chump despite having unlimited reasons not to save her...that's just pretty weak. If she appeared in her old body, gave Rand some important info or otherwise did something to earn his trust while asking for his help then I could buy it being a trap. If this turns out to be a trap then I will be very disappointed with the level of thought and detail put into developing this plot - and unless this is a Brandon Sanderson personalized small story arc, RJ has never put forth something this poorly developed so it is fairly safe to say that this is exactly what it seems to be. Rand inside Moridin's head via their link.

Edited by Mark D

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The problem I have with this being a trap is the following:

 

1) How could anyone expect Rand to recognize her with an entirely different body? It is absurd to just assume he can recognize her soul. Furthermore, if it was a trap then Lanfear would likely appear with her old body in the dream to ensure that Rand recognized her and fell for the bait.

 

2) Why on earth would ANYONE assume that Rand would actually help her??? This is a pretty big point here. Rand hates the Forsaken, and Moiraine died (as far as everyone knows so far at least) saving Rand from her. So what on earth would cause anyone to suspect that Rand would lift a finger to help Lanfear now? Especially considering how hard and psychotic Rand has become (prior to VoG revelation).

 

Yes, the above can be explained away....but to just say that Lanfear/Moridin decided Rand would probably recognize her soul in a dream and would just fall into trying to save her like a total chump despite having unlimited reasons not to save her...that's just pretty weak. If she appeared in her old body, gave Rand some important info or otherwise did something to earn his trust while asking for his help then I could buy it being a trap. If this turns out to be a trap then I will be very disappointed with the level of thought and detail put into developing this plot - and unless this is a Brandon Sanderson personalized small story arc, RJ has never put forth something this poorly developed so it is fairly safe to say that this is exactly what it seems to be. Rand inside Moridin's head via their link.

 

Either its a trap or a red herring, I think SH comments to Graendal a couple of pages before Rands Lanfear/dream scene is suggestive, of at least the author trying to hint that its a trap.

Edited by damandred

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lanfear is not of the light or of the shadow, she might turn against the darkone but only for her own selfish purpose. Shes probably genuine in wanting Rands help but its just to save her skin then its back to her old self.

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lanfear is not of the light or of the shadow, she might turn against the darkone but only for her own selfish purpose. Shes probably genuine in wanting Rands help but its just to save her skin then its back to her old self.

 

The same argument could be made for the rest of the Forsaken. Ishamael is the only one who has the same goals as the DO. The others are all selfish, and are really just using the Shadow as a means to an end. Revenge against LTT, revenge against the world, immortality, power, that's what they all want. If their desires became impossible when fighting for the Shadow, it's quite possible they would try to rejoin the light. Although, seeing as it's very unlikely they would ever be trusted again, they'd probably be more likely to fight on their own, and forsake both the Light and the Shadow.

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Lanfear's character is so utterly ripe for complication. She could struggle with her inner demons and become a really compelling character illustrating the power of redemption in the Light. But RJ has pretty much foreclosed the possibility; she's one-dimensional, lusting for power (and as a secondary corollary, satisfaction), and really doesn't have that much else to her except her backstory. She's probably a vehicle for some sort of character development on Rand's part (he finally becomes okay with killing women? or something?) but won't ever do anything as interesting as attempting to turn from the Shadow back to the Light.

 

For all the "No one can walk in the shadow so long they cannot come back to the Light" that we hear repeated throughout the series, who actually does redeem himself? Ingtar, maybe, sort of? Asmodean didn't. Lanfear won't.

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Lanfear's character is so utterly ripe for complication. She could struggle with her inner demons and become a really compelling character illustrating the power of redemption in the Light. But RJ has pretty much foreclosed the possibility; she's one-dimensional, lusting for power (and as a secondary corollary, satisfaction), and really doesn't have that much else to her except her backstory. She's probably a vehicle for some sort of character development on Rand's part (he finally becomes okay with killing women? or something?) but won't ever do anything as interesting as attempting to turn from the Shadow back to the Light.

 

For all the "No one can walk in the shadow so long they cannot come back to the Light" that we hear repeated throughout the series, who actually does redeem himself? Ingtar, maybe, sort of? Asmodean didn't. Lanfear won't.

 

If this is true then an awful lot of paper has been wasted by RJ giving us information on her backstory and involving her in the story. Not to mention, this supposed trap is really pathetic if that is all it turns out to be.

 

RJ didn't seem to waste a single sentence in this book (unless it was in aesthetic description) and it would strike me as particularly strange if he brought up how she opened the bore several times, involved her so deeply in the early books, and resurrected her only to have her remain a one dimensional standard bad guy who will repeat the failure of every other Forsaken in the book with little variation. She might not try to turn back to the light, but there is going to be something important involving Lanfear in the last books IMO. She has way too much backstory and her plot has a lot of holes in it that still need to be filled (supposed resurrection, aelfin/elfin thing, moiraine, etc). Lanfear just trying to trap Rand and getting killed again would seem very unlike RJ.

 

Then again...having a bad guy turn multi-dimensional and redeeming herself entirely would also seem unlike RJ so it's a bit of a toss up.

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Oh, I expect her to have an important role. I just don't think she'll become interesting in the way that her story allows. As RJ wrote the story, Lanfear was never all that into the Dark One; he was just the most convenient route to power, especially after she (unknowingly?) drilled the Bore. I mean, Beidomon ended in disgrace and suicide. Lanfear was never going to accept that, so she turned to the Shadow, because she was virtually rejected by the Light. This torment — being driven to evil, not seeking it out — seems like fertile ground for interesting stuff.

 

But RJ's comments show that he didn't think about it that way. She was evil to begin with. I would love to see some complication in that, but I don't expect it.

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