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Mowbray

Seanchan

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Please read this post before thinking why I am endorsing the Seanchan.

When Seanchan came on Toman Head, it brought peace to the region. The people were scared because of the beasts, but that's alright. The rule was peaceful, everyone was allowed to do what he/she wants, wherever he/she wants to go, thieves, arsonists and murderers were given such judgement that the crime rate had gone down and the trade had started to prosper. In fact, in the end, people started to love them.

The argument that Seanchan are aliens of the land is baseless; they are the legacy of Hawkwing who actually owns the world by right, unlike Andor, Tear etc nobles, who just want to play with gold.

In TSR, Egeanin feels for the Taraboners even though they were not under the Seanchan.

In TGS, Rand acknowledges that Seanchan were better rulers than he was, and had brought smiles on the war-torn countries of Tarabon, Altara and Amadicia.

In ToM, Beslan gives his oath to Fortuona because he realises that his people were better under her than under his mother.

Love for their empress was high in Seanchan, and so was their respect for her, something that is very difficult to earn. Even Suroth, the darkfriend, wished for her long life.

It's clear that damane-attitude of Seanchan will end in AMoL, so why don't you think Seanchan-land is a better idea? Their idea of ruling is great, their love for people is genuine and their power is stable. If Aiel and Seanchan reach to some deal, I think that is the best world that can be possible after TG, allowing Rand to retire to his village, which he always dreamed of, Mat as a carousing king and Perrin as a normal blacksmith as he had wanted. (Who gives a damn to Egwene and Elayne).

What do you feel?

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The Seanchan bring order but at what cost? Go under the layers of peace and you find a society full of ignorance, corruption, slavery, brutal subjugation, and not to mention a hatred toward anything to do with the power. No thanks!

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i agree with drew. i think the op is ignoring problems like slavery, the subjugation drew mentions, and to add to the heap, even ignoring their hate of the power, their brutally lethal brand of politics. even the high lord tuon most trusts is expected to plot her assassination. and it gets even more brutal i bet between the normal lords, ladies, high lords, and high ladies. one of their main reasons for doing well is their "my way or the highway" mentality, if you disagree you get beat, if you continue to disagree, you get strung up. it is a nation where a peasant could be beaten to within an inch of their life for just looking at the face of a high lord, and killed outright for looking at the face of the empress. its a totalitarian dictatorship. there are allot of people in north korea who honestly loved their "dear leader", that doesn't make it right.

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The argument that Seanchan are aliens of the land is baseless; they are the legacy of Hawkwing who actually owns the world by right, unlike Andor, Tear etc nobles, who just want to play with gold.

Say what?

 

In TSR, Egeanin feels for the Taraboners even though they were not under the Seanchan.

So did Nynaeve, Elayne and Bayle Domon, in fact they did more than that by donating to local charities.

 

In TGS, Rand acknowledges that Seanchan were better rulers than he was, and had brought smiles on the war-torn countries of Tarabon, Altara and Amadicia.

That's not much of an achievement given that Rand was going crazy, had more pressing tasks at hand than governing (like killing Forsaken and cleansing saidin) and is a country boy with limited training and education. Besides, Rand spent what, several hours in Ebou Dar, hardly a good base to judge. And with Listeners everywhere, it's not like most people are likely to complain about the government to a stranger.

 

Love for their empress was high in Seanchan, and so was their respect for her, something that is very difficult to earn. Even Suroth, the darkfriend, wished for her long life.

But the Empress was using the Crystal Throne ter'angreal to inspire awe. That's cheating.

 

It's clear that damane - attitude of Seanchan will end in AMoL, so why don't you think Seanchan-land is a better idea? Their idea of ruling is great, their love for people is genuine and their power is stable.

First of all, without damane they have no way to take over the world. Second - a few reasons why living under the Seanchan is far from great:

 

1) widespread slavery

2) secret police with unlimited powers the members of which routinely use torture and with its own huge network of spies.

3) nobility which demands every commoner to grovel and humiliate himself before them any time they are in contact

4) brainwashing - not just the damane, many of the other slaves are turned into obedient automatons.

Edited by David Selig

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The Seanchan way offers some stability at far too great a cost. You say "everyone" was allowed to do what they want? Unless you happen to be a slave or damane of course. Also it's funny how people paint this picture of Seanchan being all peace and prosperity when the truth is the Empire(in addition to slavery, seekers, damane, etc) has a history of being racked by violent conflict. Karede mentions putting down "numerous" revolts in his time with the Deathwatch guards. We have constant jockeying for power and control, with many attempts to overthrow the Empress so she isn't loved by everyone. The Seanchan model is deeply flawed and can't even guarantee the stability that is just about it's only virtue.

 

There also seems to be a misconception(brought smiles?) in how content people are in conquered Seanchan territories. If they are so happy why is Tarabon in close to open revolt aiding Ituralde in his campaign?

 

Lastly David has a good point about Rand. His opinion here is fairly suspect as he is half insane and has only seen a small sliver of which to judge. It is more a condemnation on his own work than anything else.

Edited by Suttree

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I'm only at tPoD now, but Seanchan society can't be morally defended. It is simply unacceptable based on what I've seen so far, no matter what nuances are introduced later. The Westlands are mostly benevolent (if incompetent) monarchies, not militant authoritarian regimes of fear, torture, and slavery. 

Edited by Alric

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There no doubt that the more power you give to government, the more efficient it is. It's a trade off with freedom though. A monarchy is more efficient (not effective, that's a different meaning) than a democracy. A dictatorship is more efficient than a monarchy. The Seanchan are highly efficient, but as mentioned before... at what cost?

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The Seanchan society must be altered before it can enter any kind of peace with 'Randland' countries. Their complete lack of value of human life, their disregard of freedom and liberty, and their complete arrogance that their way Is the only way, would be life under tyranny at best. I hope Mat and Rand can come to an understanding with Fortuona, and that Aviendha can find a weakness in the a'dam to undermind it and allow channelers freedom from its form of slavery. If damane can be elimated as a threat, then I believe that peace could be had.

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What's that saying by Thomas Jefferson? The one about the person who sacrifices liberty for security ends up with neither? Yeah, under the Seanchen the common folk are more secure, but they really have only the security of being a prisoner.Their freedom of action is curtailed ,they aren't free to speak their minds, they have to be afraid of informers, they can be arrested for any of a number of infractions which can result in them being sold into slavery and have no apparant recourse to a fair hearing. On top of all of that, they have to abase themselves to not only the Crown, but to those of the Blood.

 

As far as I can tell, the only kingdom with anything like that sort of imbalance was Tear and Rand outlawed that sort of thing when he took the Stone. When you look at it, the only kingdoms where the Seanchen seem to have succeeeded in establishing their rule are those that were in a state of upheaval with no secure core..Altara (The Crown was so weak that most nobles couldn't be bothered to take it) where there was a power vacumm. Tarabon, which was in a state of civil war and Amadicia where the White Cloaks had tacitly taken over the country and Maesema's people were rampaging. In other places, wherethe society is stable and where the citizenry have a tradition of standing on their own two feet (Andor and the borderlands in particular), they'd have a much harder sale. IMO, they'd practically have to de-populate those kingdoms to be able to reign with any kind of secuirty.

 

Any of you want to give up your freedoms for a more stable life? Fine, knock yourself out. Me? I'll take the instability.It's a small price to pay for being able to hold my head up high.

 

In reality, I don't think that the Seanchen would be able to hold Andor or the Borderlands for any length of time because the stability they offer runs counter to the way that even the poorest citizen of those kingdoms sees themselves.

 

tud

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