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brujah

Liked Way of Kings? HATED Elantris? Pls help.

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I've actually asked this in one or two other posts, but I didn't really get any help.

I have a situation. I absolutely LOVED Way of Kings by Sanderson, but I really disliked Elantris. Disliked quite a lot. Warbreaker wasn't much better in my eyes, but at least it was entertaining to an extent. I loathed both magic systems(Glyphs written in air from Elantris, and the whole Breathe/Color system from Warbreaker.)

But Way of Kings blew me away. So I was wondering if there's anyone out there like me who liked Way of Kings and disliked the other two a lone books. Because its you that I would have answer this question.

Is Mistborn anygood? Ive seen many people say it was indeed very good, but those same people also liked Elantris and Warbreaker. I'd like an opinion from someone sharing my tastes if possible. Thank you.

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I liked Elantris, and haven't yet read Warbreaker or Way of Kings. Or Mistborn, for that matter. I don't think I can help answer your question, but I am curious. What did you hate about the magic systems? From what I've heard, the breathe/color system sounds pretty stupid. I didn't have much problem with glyphs written in the air, other than the fact that in the time it takes to draw a glyph, especially if there's a bunch of modifiers, the situation you need it for will often change. And yet events generally seem willing to stop in their tracks and allow anyone who can draw glyphs to do so.

 

 

Even bad guys do nothing while someone is drawing a glyph.

 

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Warbreaker and Mistborn's magic systems (and to a lesser extent Elantris) were some of the most original and enjoyable systems I thought. I loved the idea of collecting people's "souls" and then using them put life into inanimate objects.

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Warbreaker and Mistborn's magic systems (and to a lesser extent Elantris) were some of the most original and enjoyable systems I thought. I loved the idea of collecting people's "souls" and then using them put life into inanimate objects.

 

 

Plus those systems, in addition to what is found in Way of Kings, are all part of a bigger "something" in Sandersons universe. They are all original and, I think interesting in that they are very different and each represent a different element of what appears to be a single broken supreme power/being. I think each is well thought out and for the most part have clearly defined rules as to their use. They have real limits and are not really overpowered. While they obviously make the practitioners more powerful they do not make them into gods like so many other magics we see in fantasy. While I respect everyones right to like/dislike whatever they choose I say maybe you are being a little too critical. Probably just personal preference though I guess.

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I also think that anyone applying such an extreme emotion as loathing for a magic system within a book either has to lay off the hyperbole a little or get their head looked at :biggrin:

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Sorry, Brujah... I also liked Elantris and Warbreaker, but if it helps what I liked about them was not so much the magic systems as the characters. Elantris is my least favorite of Brandon's books. Way of Kings, however, is spectacular.

 

I think if what you primarily didn't like about Elantris and Warbreaker was the magic systems, you're much more likely to enjoy Mistborn. It's really well done as far as the magic systems go, and would be hands down the best of Brandon's work if it wasn't for Way of Kings showing so much promise for the first in a planned 10 book series.

 

I think it's worth a read, at least Book 1 of the trilogy.

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I hated Elantris, Way of Kings, and Warbreaker, but I loved Mistborn. I take it to mean I liked it the most because I read it first before I realized all of his stories have virtually the same magic systems and the same 2D characters. But there were also a lot of twists in the plot that were really cool and I liked how he played with hero's journey plot.

 

That being said Alloy of Law was very poorly written, with the same 2D characters and what not, but it was short and had a lot of action so it was kind of enjoyable.

Edited by Kadere

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I just finished the first Mistborn. I was really dubious about reading Sanderson. I mean, I enjoyed TGS and ToM first time round but on rereads, I found certain parts just cringe-worthy, so I wasn't expecting to like his own books that much.

 

Boy, was I wrong. I found it so hard to put down. And the really weird thing is that I didn't enjoy it for the usual reasons I enjoy a book. I wasn't that keen on the characters, the general plot was good but nothing too amazing. The reason I loved this book was the pacing and the twists. I don't think I've ever read a book before that's actually shocked me, but the first Mistborn did. Usually I see so-called "twists" coming, or they're just not that major. But Mistborn genuinely surprised me, several time over. As for the pacing...well it just kept me reading. I often stayed up an hour later than normal, because Brandon kept throwing situations at me where I just HAD to know how it was resolved. There were quite a few things that annoyed me, but not badly enough to ruin the book. Definitely recommend it.

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Thanks for the responses. They've helped a lot. I'm going to read Mistborn after I finish these Malazan novels, on book 5. I think Way of Kings, and its magic system seems quite different from Warbreaker and Elantris. But I do see how he's going to be tying all the worlds in together.

When I saw Hoit in Warbreaker, same guy from Way of Kings, I knew.then that it would end up all being one giant world.

Also, Elantris depends solely for its magic the shape of the land. In particular certain cities and geographic areas. You can also see.this beginning to build in Way of Kings. When they mention quite a few times the importance of.the designs of the main cities.

And I guess I was too critical with the word loathing. But I really do not like the whole color aspect to the color/breath system. And I COULD get on board with the breath/soul part of it, but the uses are just boring to me. Animating lifeless objects. Just not liking it. I def agree with you when you say the two systems aren't so overpowered, but guess its just me.

As far as the glyphs in the air, I just don't.really like it. But you also see the magic being tapped into by the guy doing.the karate kata. But I don't like.how he's kicking ass.then oh I slipped and BAM he goes down.

I guess I'm spoiled by WoT. It was the.first magic system that I liked. I don't.like wands. I.don't like gestures or magic words. It should just flow from the universe into you then out as you command. And it should definately leave you weakened as used.

As for originality, the Malazan magic system is beyond original and probably the most described system I've read. And I even have problems with that one,.too.

Anyway I thank you.for your input and.have.decided on what has been said to read the.series.next.

After that I'm thinking about The Black Company and.those Thomas Covenant novels.

Currently reading( or waiting for next book) WoT, GoT, Malazan, Way of Kings.

Any other suggestions based on my taste?

And BTW, thanks guys for all posts, not meaning to come across as a hater of certain books.

Edited by Brujah

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I'd recommend avoiding the Covenant series. I found the first book to be a mind-numbingly slow read. Perhaps the only reason that I stuck with it till the end of the book was that I bought it rather than borrowing it, and I didn't want to feel like I wasted my money by giving up on it. I had huge ethical issues with Covenant, the central character and supposed hero, being a rapist. I just don't want to ever go back to those books.

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I've actually asked this in one or two other posts, but I didn't really get any help.

I have a situation. I absolutely LOVED Way of Kings by Sanderson, but I really disliked Elantris. Disliked quite a lot. Warbreaker wasn't much better in my eyes, but at least it was entertaining to an extent. I loathed both magic systems(Glyphs written in air from Elantris, and the whole Breathe/Color system from Warbreaker.)

But Way of Kings blew me away. So I was wondering if there's anyone out there like me who liked Way of Kings and disliked the other two a lone books. Because its you that I would have answer this question.

Is Mistborn anygood? Ive seen many people say it was indeed very good, but those same people also liked Elantris and Warbreaker. I'd like an opinion from someone sharing my tastes if possible. Thank you.

 

The Way of Kings is my next book to read so I will have to let you know later.

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I'd recommend avoiding the Covenant series. I found the first book to be a mind-numbingly slow read. Perhaps the only reason that I stuck with it till the end of the book was that I bought it rather than borrowing it, and I didn't want to feel like I wasted my money by giving up on it. I had huge ethical issues with Covenant, the central character and supposed hero, being a rapist. I just don't want to ever go back to those books.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I'm all for my heroes having a darkside, but RAPE is nothing I'd ever be able to accept in a main hero.

In a fit of rage the hero kills his older brother when he was younger and the past still haunts him. FINE.

The Hero cheats off Susie Q's math test in 7th grade. FINE.

BUT RAPE. OUT OF THE QUESTION.

Unforgivable(should be a word).

I can't even imagine an instance where it would end up being ok. Like killing from rage. Understandable, even if not acceptable.

But Rape. No.

I'm disappointed.

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Thanks for the heads up. I'm all for my heroes having a darkside, but RAPE is nothing I'd ever be able to accept in a main hero.

In a fit of rage the hero kills his older brother when he was younger and the past still haunts him. FINE.

The Hero cheats off Susie Q's math test in 7th grade. FINE.

BUT RAPE. OUT OF THE QUESTION.

Unforgivable(should be a word).

I can't even imagine an instance where it would end up being ok. Like killing from rage. Understandable, even if not acceptable.

But Rape. No.

I'm disappointed.

 

I actually think he is meant as more of an antihero, and there is some remorse for his actions. But even so, as things progress, the good guys winning clearly relies on him doing what he needs to do. When the main character needs to succeed at something really pivotal for the good guys to carry the day, that's a hero in my book. And having that be the same person as the man who committed the acts that he does earlier was too much for me to handle.

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That being said Alloy of Law was very poorly written, with the same 2D characters and what not, but it was short and had a lot of action so it was kind of enjoyable.

 

This and it worries me somewhat. We have seen BS do some quality writing but at times his prose is very poor. I think he really needs to slow down his pace and work on revisions much more. TGS and ToM suffered greatly because of how quickly he was forced to blaze through them(which wasn't his fault) and they do not hold up well on rereads. He has changed his process to address these issue for aMoL and that will go a long way in getting a true gauge on him. To me the verdict is very much still out on BS, he has a ways to go to break into that top tier of fantasy authors.

Edited by Suttree

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i haven't read the series but imo if the rape is used as a pass event that the heroe is overcomming. kinda like a Jamie character, then it would be alright. but to have the hero actively do that through the books would be a villian.

 

Snape would be another instance of a good anti-hero.

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I'd recommend avoiding the Covenant series. I found the first book to be a mind-numbingly slow read. Perhaps the only reason that I stuck with it till the end of the book was that I bought it rather than borrowing it, and I didn't want to feel like I wasted my money by giving up on it. I had huge ethical issues with Covenant, the central character and supposed hero, being a rapist. I just don't want to ever go back to those books.

 

I, on the other hand, would recommend the Covenant series as one of the best written fantasy novels available. Sorry Basel!

 

Its true that its slow at the beginning. Its also true that the central character is complex and difficult at times. And its an old book, written in the 70's, so its dated in the same way that LOTR is.

But it was pretty much the only "adult" fantasy I found before GRRM books. And by adult, I mean that the characters are flawed, and the things they do aren't always based on the good and evil version of fantasy, but the grays in between. I rate it as one of the best series ever written - but I concede that its a taste thing, and completely understand why some wont like it.

 

As for the Sanderson Books, worst is Elantris - that was his first, I think? Warbreaker is kinda "meh". I liked it, but I doubt I will ever reread that one. The magic system was fine, but it takes more than a magic system to make a good book. Mistborn was the first book of Sandersons that I read, and I only did so because I heard this unknown (to me) writer was finishing WoT. I thought it was an impressive book - unusual and clever. It doesn't have a lot of the obvious fantasy tropes, and the world feels different to the standard "fantasy" world. I would say its his best book, except that I really liked WoK, which is my favorite of his books so far.

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wanted to post this. if you haven't checked out "The Dresden Files" by Jim Butcher Brujah you should. i think you'd like that magic system and story line alot :happy:

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Thought I would mention I asked Sanderson on twitter when he was going to start Stormlight 2 and he replied probably when he finishes AMoL,maybe in July.

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Just browsing around the forums and hey, funny story, in a sardonic kind of way. My middle name is Kovan and my dad made that up as a....I don't know. Would pseudonym be the right word? Anyways, it's like short for Covenant from those books and I only recently found out because my little brother had just finished the series. I'd never heard of them and my dad always said he just made it up. Then my brother told me they were really good books and the main character is really well written but he raped a girl. So I haven't read them and I don't know if I want to. el oh el

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Thanks for the heads up. I'm all for my heroes having a darkside, but RAPE is nothing I'd ever be able to accept in a main hero.

In a fit of rage the hero kills his older brother when he was younger and the past still haunts him. FINE.

The Hero cheats off Susie Q's math test in 7th grade. FINE.

BUT RAPE. OUT OF THE QUESTION.

Unforgivable(should be a word).

I can't even imagine an instance where it would end up being ok. Like killing from rage. Understandable, even if not acceptable.

But Rape. No.

I'm disappointed.

 

I actually think he is meant as more of an antihero, and there is some remorse for his actions. But even so, as things progress, the good guys winning clearly relies on him doing what he needs to do. When the main character needs to succeed at something really pivotal for the good guys to carry the day, that's a hero in my book. And having that be the same person as the man who committed the acts that he does earlier was too much for me to handle.

 

 

 

 

yep for me having the "hero" as a rapist has made me put the book down about 300/350 pages in. I cannot connect with him because of it, the lack of remorse shown (at least to where Im at) is appalling. And all Im waiting for is the Dark Lord of the story to come along and burn him to a cinder. Major mistake in my eyes having the hero do this in the book. But its all about opinions, you could read it and love it. As I understand it the Covenant series, the First, Second and Last Chronicles, are some of the most popular fantasy books out there

Edited by Darren heron-Mark Clayden

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I completely forgot to comment on the topic of the thread! If I were you Id read the mistborn books, I love them. couldnt put them down. Im reading Part 2 Book 1 Way of Kings now and enjoying this series to.

Edited by Darren heron-Mark Clayden

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I've enjoyed on some level all of Sanderson's books, but one of the more common complaints I hear about Sanderson is that he's not good at stand-alone novels; that he needs more space to establish plot, setting and characters than he has in one book. So I do hear of fans who very much enjoy tWoK and Mistborn but didn't like Elantris and Warbreaker.

 

For those who haven't read Warbreaker, I wouldn't knock the magic system without reading the book. I was incredibly skeptical before reading as the idea sounds pretty silly when summarized, though if you have read the books and didn't like the magic then I'll just have to stand in disagreement with you. I thought the magic in Warbreaker was one of Sanderson's most creative and wonderful systems. If Warbreaker had problems they would be its pacing and voice. As for Elantris, I felt that his characters didn't move that much and weren't very original or interesting, with the exception of Hrathen.

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i havent read elantris yet, but i did read way of kings and warbreaker. thought warbreaker was ok but not that great, cant wait for the next way of kings book though. i relly liked mistborn, espetialy as he is doing a modern set of stories based on it as well. the stand alone middle book between the first trilogy and the new one he is going to be doing was awsome. set in the old west (not relly, but if it was anytime on earth that would be it)

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I've read the Alloy stuff, warbreaker and The Way of Kings. TWOK is by far...and far and away his best work. That book is just pure awesome. I liked the alloy stuff for good light reading. I read Warbreaker for free before he published it and it was worth free. A decent read, with some interesting ideas..but not fully fleshed out.

 

Ok..have the address the Thomas Convenant thing. This is one of my top all time trilogies. You can't just mention the rape scene without setting the stage. Otherwise people will just be turned off. He's a man with leprosy, no feeling all that gets transferred to another world in which he has feeling. He THINKS he is in a dream when he forces himself on the girl. It's not real to him. Later he starts to realize it is in fact real and this is what makes the books interesting. Him coming to terms with the guilt of the rape while that girls village look upon him as their prophesied savior. You can imagine the inner turmoil and self loathing he goes through. Very unique stuff for a hero. Non-traditional fantasy writing to say the least. Well worth the read.

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Mistborn was amazing. I really loved it. Elantris and Warbreaker were ok. Way of Kings is one of my favorites of course.

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