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Southpaw89

who's disguised as who?

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"Hm... I haven't given any good #AMoL teases today, have I? Well, right now, one of the Forsaken is wearing the image of another Forsaken."

 

 

That was a quote by Brandon Sanderson on twitter today. Discuss.

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Hmmm, good one.

 

I really have no idea. Only can think of possibilities.

 

Sammael- as mentioned, seems likely, since it has been mentioned exclusively. But I cant see by who. Moridin and Demandred are unlikely to have done it, and they are the only two male forsaken left. I hardly think both of them have time to do something like immitate Sammael. And not sure how far it would get with a female doing it. She could not go near any Aes Sedai or Asha'man, it seems unlikely that it wouldnt be caught out by now.

 

Moggy seems to like that kind of stuff, its her style to do it, hiding behind a disguise. As to who she is disguising herself as, I am not sure. Mesaana comes to mind, as she is/was in a powerful position, ordering around the Black Ajah and dealing with the Tower. I don't see the Shadow giving up such a powerful organization so easily. Somehow, if "Mesaana" was to be found alive and well, after Egwene just "defeated" her, it could certainly undermine her regime, not to mention the confusion it would cause with the real mesaana seemingly braindead. She could also be impersonating anyone else really.

 

Could it be Graendal - Semirhage? Graendal notes that she has already tied some strings to the Empress (Tuon), which was formally Semirhage's. The problem being that many already know that she was around, (the damane when she blew off rand's hand etc..) but it could be she is impersonating her to give commands to the Darkfriends in the Seanchan, they wouldnt really question it, and probably dont know she had been balefired, thus totally dead.

 

Osan'gar- I have a feeling it could be Demandred or Moridin impersonating old Aginor. He was situated in the Black Tower (was supposed to be, until Rand picked him up.) Strange stuff is going on in the Black Tower, Moridin has his hand in it (Dreamspike) and so does Demandred (ordered some DF asha'man to kill Rand) Perhaps they are taking advantage of his absence, moving in to complete the whole 13x13 stuff.

 

- Lanfear- Really a stretch I suppose. I just thought I would throw it in because of the Rand PoV from the end of ToM. Something strange is going on there, could be a little impersonation.

 

The problem with all of these is why would one of the Forsaken need to disguise themselves as another? DF's usually don't question their orders or go against one of the Forsaken, im sure they could get their own way with a little persuasion. Only the Sammael impersonation seems to fit.

 

They either

1. have to be doing something they don't want the DO or the others to know about.

2. They want to pin something on one of their rivals.

3. They are in hiding, and don't want anyone to know where they are.

 

Graendal seems likely in this case, after her recent fall from grace, you could understand her not wanting to be recognized.

 

 

Well, thats all the ideas i have for now.

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Graendal seems likely in this case, after her recent fall from grace, you could understand her not wanting to be recognized.

 

Isn't it just the opposite? Isn't Graendal because of her recent fall from grace the least likely candidate? Graendal is in a position where she can't risk even putting one toe on the line without inviting dire consequences. I can't think of a reason to impersonate another Forsaken aside from the typical infighting on the Shadow side and Graendal would have to be beyond stupid to play those games right now. She would inevitably end up in Shaidar Haran's hands again and this time I doubt she would survive.

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I'm quite excited by this. It seems very unlikely that it's Moridin doing the impersonating - he's Nae'blis, why bother? And it doesn't seem like Demandred's style. Which just leaves the laydeees. And probably Moggy or Graendal - Lanfear's plot seems to revolve very much around her being herself and seen as such by Rand.

I was afraid Moggy and Graendal would barely get a mention in aMoL, and just go 'pop' via mindtrap when Moridin gets splatted - which is a shame given that they've both had prominent roles in the past. Sounds like there could be some interesting Forsaken action still to come.

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The first thing that came to mind when I saw the tweet is that Graendal knows Rand thinks she is dead. Rand also doesn't know that Balthamel/Aran'gar/Halima, Aginor/Osan'gar/Dashiva and Asmodean are dead, he just knows they disappeared. He also knows that if a Forsaken isn't killed with balefire, they can be resurrected (Sammael).

 

Moridin or Demandred could easily be disguised as any one of them.

Edited by Sealed to the Flame

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Guest Emu on the Loose

Sign me up to the "Moghedien is impersonating Mesaana" faction. All this talk about how Moggy is the best in T'A'R...well, is there ever going to be story value to that, or not? Moggy playing the role of Messy makes for the perfect setup.

 

Stretching things out, I could also see Demandred pulling something by impersonating Sammael. Besides that, the only other plausible scenario I can think of is that someone is impersonating Cyndane--probably Moridin. It's also possible that "Cyndane" is just one more of Lanfear's disguises, which, if it turns out to be true, is going to make Dida pee himself. (And I have to admit, I'd be pretty pleased, too.)

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Graendal is disguised as Moridin and calling Shaidar Haran a pussy little girl who couldn't handle a real man like he did Mesaana.

Edited by Mordaunt

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Demandred posing as Moridin

 

That would be pretty awesome, it could go two ways.

 

He is doing it against Moridin's wishes, in that case it is exteremly dangerous and crazy, could end up being really stupid or really awesome.

 

Or Moridin is in on it. They seem to have an understanding of sorts, by the interactions in tGS prologue. Both seem really focused on the LB, as opposed to say, Graendal, who is still weaving plots against the others. It could be awesome if those two are working together to keep everything in line.

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I'll go for the odd one out: Moghedien impersonating Lanfear. Pit one enemy against another, kill the winner, get rid of that pesky mindtrap. Explains why Lanfear would do something as odd as begging Rand for help when the last time she saw him she was ripping the skin off a guy and indicating she'd do the same to his little Aiel girlfriend.

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My initial thought is someone disguised as Asmodean. Either Lanfear has told Moridin about Asmodean, or she's taken on the disguise herself, and they're trying to distract Rand at a crucial moment.

 

Either that, or in an attempt to unbalance Rand, someone takes on the appearance of a Balefired Forsaken to try and 'prove' that "Even Balefire cannot stop us" and kick morale down the stairs and jump on it.

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Graendal as Messanna is my guess. The Black Ajah need a new leader and Cyndane is too erratic, Moggy too craven, and Demandred knows too little of Saidar to effectively command. This makes Graendal the reasonable choice, but there's still the fact Rand believes her dead. I doubt Moridin would want to tip his hand on that too early so it would be within reason that Graendal would have to act without revealing herself, and Messanaa would make for a smart disguise. It undermines the White Tower and I imagine it'd be easier to unite the Black Ajah under a ruler they know already.

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Graendal posing as Lanfear as Cyndaine. The Dreambait at the end of ToM. Elaborate trap for Rand Sedai.

 

Two things wrong with that. Shaidar Haran specifically tells Graendal that the task of handling Rand has been given to another. Secondly, and more importantly, Rand is able to recognize Cyndane for who she is because he recognizes her soul, which is something that as far as we know, cannot be disguised.

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Graendal posing as Lanfear as Cyndaine. The Dreambait at the end of ToM. Elaborate trap for Rand Sedai.

 

Two things wrong with that. Shaidar Haran specifically tells Graendal that the task of handling Rand has been given to another. Secondly, and more importantly, Rand is able to recognize Cyndane for who she is because he recognizes her soul, which is something that as far as we know, cannot be disguised.

 

That's true enough, but there's also a potential red flag raised here, in that he feels desire for a woman who his relationship to is centuries dead, buried behind the slaughter of millions, and the desire to slaughter those he has true emotional bonds to. Why does he feel anything remotely like that? Is his VoG revelation actually an epiphany underscored by crotch-tardation of Fallon'esque proportions? I mean, why should he feel anything for this woman when both Rand-Rand and Rand-LTT know the full truth of her?

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My initial thought is someone disguised as Asmodean. Either Lanfear has told Moridin about Asmodean, or she's taken on the disguise herself, and they're trying to distract Rand at a crucial moment.

 

Either that, or in an attempt to unbalance Rand, someone takes on the appearance of a Balefired Forsaken to try and 'prove' that "Even Balefire cannot stop us" and kick morale down the stairs and jump on it.

Someone taking Asmodean's place has merit, if someone were to betray the DO by some act. Most forsaken believe Asmo went over to Rand's camp.

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I think Aginor was brought back from the dead again and is posing as Sammael. He walks into Shayol Ghul and Moridin screams "Asshole! You stole my trollocs" and then blows him up. There's only one book left and that means that there's limited opportunities available for Aginor to get randomly blown up again and they need to be worked into the plot somehow.

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I think Aginor was brought back from the dead again and is posing as Sammael. He walks into Shayol Ghul and Moridin screams "Asshole! You stole my trollocs" and then blows him up. There's only one book left and that means that there's limited opportunities available for Aginor to get randomly blown up again and they need to be worked into the plot somehow.

 

Possible, I suppose, but unlikely. Why complicate what is already pretty messy and confused by bringing back Aginor one more time? Sanderson has 5 ( 6 if you believe that Mesaana is only sidelined at this point but not totally out-of-the-game ) Forsaken left to dispose of and only one book within which to do it. No time or room for further complications like reintroducing Aginor, Sammael, or Bel'al and then getting rid of them again.

 

Moridin has too much ego to hide as anyone else. Demandred still believes he can bring about Lews Therin's downfall, and his ego won't let him do anything that leads to that that doesn't point clearly back to him. My sense is that Moridin would be satisfied with a private admission from the Dragon that, "Yes, Elan, you are the better, truer philosopher." Barid Bel Medar wants the whole world to know that he is better than Lews Therin.

 

That leaves the three remaining women effectives. Lanfear has already employed disguises on a number of occasions, so using yet another one would not be out-of-charaacter for her. Question is, who would she impersonate? I think she hates Moggy too much to ever take on her appearance, which leaves only Graendal. If she were to do that, the implication is that she doesn't know how much trouble Graendal is already in. A case of stepping from the frying pan into the fire. If there's one thing Lanfear is it's vain, and her vanity has suffered some severe blows lately, so I could see her impersonating her natural rival Graendal in a way that got Graendal into even more trouble.

 

Moggy is just the opposite from Demandred. She doesn't ever want anything pointing back to her. If it's within her capabilities, I can easily see her impersonating absolutely anyone else, even one of the male Forsaken.

 

Graendal, at this point, has stepped in it so deep that she would impersonate any of the others just to deflect further condemnation from herself. IIRC, when last seen, Shaidar Haran had her very firmly by the scruff of the neck, so would she have the freedom to disguise herself at this point?

 

I think it has to be either Lanfear or Moghedien and take your pick. No clue who is being impersonated, though.

Edited by Bob T Dwarf

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