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Where did Moiraine go at the beginning of TGH?


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Hello,

 

So this question has plagued me enough now that I finally had to join so I could ask for some thoughts.

 

I am doing an umpteenth read-through in anticipation of AMoL...and something just stood out to me that I never caught before. At the beginning of THG when Rand and Lan are working out, Rand is complaining that Moiraine is ignoring him now. He then mentions that she even left Fal Dara, and Lan tells him that she got back the previous night.

 

We know that Ingtar is a dark friend and left the keep at the same time to go to the meeting that was told through the perspective of "Bors." I'm still near the beginning of this book, but I simply don't recall any explanation for her disappearance in any of my previous reads (and the last was only about a year ago.)

 

So, did Moiraine go to that meeting? Is Moiraine a dark friend? Of course all of her actions and apparent loyalty to Rand say otherwise, but do they really? The Dark Lord prizes ambition and cunning in his followers, so wouldn't it make sense that someone of his would want to get close to the DR and stay as close as possible, even to the extent of destroying other Chosen? Perhaps she thought that she would be killed by the 'Finns and transmigrated as Lanfear was, and her plan didn't work out...who knows, I'm just throwing out ideas here.

 

I have never before considered the possibility. But her unexplained absence is really bugging me. After A New Spring we of course don't want to think that she could have been converted and corrupted, but there's still 20 years that are left untold. And if she did convert, that would explain how the dark learned the precise age of the DR, which they obviously didn't know at the end of ANS.

 

Can someone please put this uneasiness to rest for me so I can sleep well again? Only an explanation of that absence will do the trick I fear.

 

Thanks!

 

--Fligg

Edited by Fliggerty
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The Encyclopaedia site also wonders where she went.

 

Only the people that have access to the notes would know.

 

 

Edit::

in the Prologue, there were 2 Aes Sedia. One is Liandrin, the other is unknown.

Edited by mb
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It's a good question. I don't think there should be any doubt that Moiraine is firmly on the side of the Light, however. I think this was put in as a red herring by RJ so that we would suspect her of something. It still doesn't answer the question of where she went, though. I like the idea that she was finding more about Rand and Tam, since she definitely does seem to know more than she did beforehand. Remember, in TEotW, she wasn't even sure which of the three boys had been born outside the Two Rivers, so I doubt she knew all that information about Tam. Nynaeve certainly didn't tell her. So she very well could have been finding out more information. Still begs the question of where did she go and who gave her said information, but as to that, I can't say.

 

Still, I sincerely doubt she's Black Ajah. Just because we know one of the Black sisters at the Darkfriend Social was Liandrin and not the identity of the other doesn't mean it's Moiraine, even if the timing is right. There's a ton of Black sisters it could have been, and I would think Moiraine would be smart enough not to wear her Great Serpent ring if she was Black and at the meeting.

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I can't imagine Moiraine left to find more information on Tam and Rand. It's certainly something Moiraine would want to know more of, but even with all of Moraine's contacts, where would she go near the Borderlands to learn of a farmer from Andor and an officer of the Illianer Companions? It's far too specific a search for even veterans of the Aiel war to be of help.

 

The only explanation I can think of is that Moiraine left for a time to feign greater disinterest in Rand, but that would not be a particularly satisfying answer.

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Perhaps she went to visit Adeleas and Vandene? I don't think it ever specifies where they live, and she visits them for sure in chapter 22.

 

Edit: I lied. They lived in Arafel, which is in relatively close proximity to Sheinar. I think that's probably what happened.

Edited by Goldstar
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It's in part a red herring to make us think she was at the Darkfriend meeting. Brandon said as much on Twitter.

 

Brandon on Twitter - 17 January 2011

It's much discussed, but if you haven't noticed: Darkfriend social has Aes Sedai, then we learn Moiraine had been mysteriously absent.

Brandon

RJ was very sneaky. This sent wot fandom into huge circles of wild-goose-chasing, many thinking Moiraine was a Darkfriend.

 

 

I don't think it's ever actually explained where she went, but her reasons for going were probably part of her attempt to make Rand think she wasn't interested in him.

Edited by UncleButcher
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It's in part a red herring to make us think she was at the Darkfriend meeting. Brandon said as much on Twitter.

 

Brandon on Twitter - 17 January 2011

It's much discussed, but if you haven't noticed: Darkfriend social has Aes Sedai, then we learn Moiraine had been mysteriously absent.

Brandon

RJ was very sneaky. This sent wot fandom into huge circles of wild-goose-chasing, many thinking Moiraine was a Darkfriend.

 

 

I don't think it's ever actually explained where she went, but her reasons for going were probably part of her attempt to make Rand think she wasn't interested in him.

 

I'm glad I'm not the first to think of this...but I have to admit I'm not satisfied yet. Brandon's response doesn't actually say she's not a DF. And I firmly believe that Brandon is just as sneaky as RJ. ;) The term "wild-goose-chasing" does seem to imply that it was a red herring, but I think we've all been surprised at supposed implications before.

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We know she's essential for the victory of the light over the shadow.

 

That would be a very strange attribute for a dark friend. Not impossible of course, but I just can't see her having a gollum moment.

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We know she's essential for the victory of the light over the shadow.
Viewing of a dead and gone woman? To me that talks about a woman that litterally died then returned from death. Would still think that unless the author tells differently.

 

And the event could be sometime before Tarmon Gaidon; and some chance of the Viewing being already fulfilled.

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We know she's essential for the victory of the light over the shadow.

 

That would be a very strange attribute for a dark friend. Not impossible of course, but I just can't see her having a gollum moment.

I could perhaps point to Verin to argue that point.... :)

 

Other than that mysterious absence, there is nothing I can think of in any book to make me suspicious of Moiraine being a Darkfriend.

That's exactly how I felt, until this read through and this particular question popped out. The great thing is, this type of thing is exactly why I wanted to read again...to try and get something of a fresh perspective on something/someone otherwise familiar.

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We know she's essential for the victory of the light over the shadow.
Viewing of a dead and gone woman? To me that talks about a woman that litterally died then returned from death. Would still think that unless the author tells differently.

 

And the event could be sometime before Tarmon Gaidon; and some chance of the Viewing being already fulfilled.

 

You're mistaking narration for one of Min's viewings.

A tiny stab of guilt made her shift her seat on the coverlet. She had not really lied when he asked what viewings she had kept back. Not really. What good to tell him he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone? He became bleak too easily as it was. She had to keep his spirits up, make him remember to laugh.

 

Moiraine was the only viewing of hers that had ever failed.

 

Both are from ACoS, ch35. Min is reflecting on the fact that she had a viewing indicating that Rand needed Moiraine's help to save the world. However, since (at that point) everyone believes Moiraine dead and gone, it would mean her viewing was completely wrong.

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You're mistaking narration for one of Min's viewings.

A tiny stab of guilt made her shift her seat on the coverlet. She had not really lied when he asked what viewings she had kept back. Not really. What good to tell him he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone? He became bleak too easily as it was. She had to keep his spirits up, make him remember to laugh.

 

Moiraine was the only viewing of hers that had ever failed.

 

Both are from ACoS, ch35. Min is reflecting on the fact that she had a viewing indicating that Rand needed Moiraine's help to save the world. However, since (at that point) everyone believes Moiraine dead and gone, it would mean her viewing was completely wrong.

 

I'm sorry, but that's far from definitive. First of all, the first quote says that Rand would almost certainly fail without an unnamed woman. In other words, it is an if viewing. It cannot fail. Whether or not the woman is there, the viewing is still valid. The second quote specifically says that Moiraine was a viewing that failed. In my opinion, that means that Min had a viewing of Moiraine (most likely linking her with Thom) and that Min feels that it can no longer happen because she thinks that Moiraine is dead.

 

The "woman who was dead and gone", in my opinion, is more likely to mean Mierin/Lanfear. Lanfear was probably dead by this time, and Mierin is most certainly gone. It fits the ambiguity of Min's internal wording, and makes a bit of sense considering the ending of tToM and Mierin's role in opening the Bore.

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I'm sorry, but that's far from definitive. First of all, the first quote says that Rand would almost certainly fail without an unnamed woman. In other words, it is an if viewing. It cannot fail. Whether or not the woman is there, the viewing is still valid. The second quote specifically says that Moiraine was a viewing that failed. In my opinion, that means that Min had a viewing of Moiraine (most likely linking her with Thom) and that Min feels that it can no longer happen because she thinks that Moiraine is dead.

 

The "woman who was dead and gone", in my opinion, is more likely to mean Mierin/Lanfear. Lanfear was probably dead by this time, and Mierin is most certainly gone. It fits the ambiguity of Min's internal wording, and makes a bit of sense considering the ending of tToM and Mierin's role in opening the Bore.

 

First off, if we're going to point to vagueness as proof that the "unnamed woman" isn't necessarily Moiraine, then you'd also have to agree that there's absolutely nothing that shows (and something that suggests otherwise) that Min's viewing of the woman was a "Knowledge Viewing" rather than a simple "Unconfirmed Viewing". Most of her viewings are as vague as prophecy.

 

Second, the -only- time Min has ever met Lanfear and had a chance to view her was way back after the battle of Falme. You don't think this would have come up sooner?

 

You're suggesting that Min's randomly, with no association whatsoever, referencing two different viewings? You're familiar with the -entire- quote, right?

 

Min sighed regretfully, but it was not as if she had really expected Moiraine to turn up alive. Moiraine was the only viewing of hers that had ever failed.

 

More importantly, Moiraine's already got the nod from multiple prophecies regarding Mat giving up half the light of the world to save the world, clearly by way of saving her. It doesn't seem likely that the two women are going to team up to save the world - Lanfear's been fleshed out as a narcissistic psychopath with no redeeming features whatsoever, and it would be completely uncharacteristic for her to change like that, which is why the end sequence of ToM comes off as a blatant trap. That is one scenario that would really shock me, because RJ has not laid down a single clue to suggest that Lanfear is capable of redemption. Think about it - she knows about at least -one- of Rand's women now, possibly two, and the last time she heard about it, she went ballistic and ripped a man straight out of his skin to show her displeasure. Pretty sure a few pregnant ladies would piss her off even further, and after Semirhage, Rand would have to be a raging idiot to trust Lanfear no matter what quaint notions he has on not hurting women.

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I am so only saying this because I've just spent hours and hours trying to find out what I can about what everyone else has found out about Rand's mean uncle Luc - erm, if you follow me - but I wonder if Moiraine's disappearance had anything to do with finding out just what happened to Tigraine's brother? He went missing in the Borderlands, yes? But then, I'm assuming Moiraine figured out very quickly who Rand's real mummy was at the beginning of TGH, which even Moiraine in all her reigning amazingness could not have figured out so quickly. UNLESS she suddenly recognized him!! NOT so crazy, considering she is Cairhien royalty!!! Eh, eh? Not so far-fetched! But I don't know, I have probably had one too many glasses of red tonight so y'know...ahem. More likely the Adeleas/Vandene theory.

 

And Moiraine, a dark friend? Bring me a cake of soap and a basin of water, your mouth needs washing out! LOL! Seriously though, RJ does not tend to break hearts into smithereens like GRRM does, so I would be stunned if she is a DF. And angry. Like, tear up all my WOT books kind of angry!

 

And the ghollum in all of this, has GOT to be Fain. HAS to be. He is perfect ghollum material - the creature that once was a naughty human hobbit and became a far nastier something else!

 

That's my 2 cents :)

Edited by Marye mi'Jigede
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