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Why has Rand angered Egwene on purpose?


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You are going WAY overboard, she is not "usurping his command", she disagrees with this particular action, an action he clearly expected and wanted her to disagree with.

 

Egwene's own take on the situation: "Obliquely, she realized what she is doing. She was using Rand's proclamation as a beacon by which to gather and tie the monarchs to the White Tower. They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve mankind in the last battle."

 

Those that are currently under Rand's command she hopes to have under her own command by the end of the meeting at Merrilor. She doesn't want to say this so baldly of course since it conflicts with her image of herself, so she is only obliquely aware of it. Rand is more than obliquely aware of Egwene's personality and ambitions and correctly deduced that such an attempt, a usurpation as I called it, would take place. So he decided to deny her the opportunity to chose the time and place of battle, like any good general should. He outmaneuvered her. We know what Egwene wants to gain at Merrilor: the Seals unbroken and control over the Light's forces. Now the question is, what does Rand hope to gain from their confrontation.

 

As I've stated I think Rands plan was simply to get the world(known) together. He hadn't been idle in ToM, let's face it, he's a busy man.

I think a lot of the enormity of the said task has been lost in this thread. Getting everybody to the FoM on time with their army's would take a lot of diplomatic and logistical effort, and the WT would be the perfect tool to accomplish that.

Yes he could of done it himself, but, why bother?

 

Other than the White Tower and Andor everyone at this meeting is already sworn to Rand. If gathering them was all he wanted to do he could simply write a letter, have a scribe copy it a dozen times and an Asha'man deliver the resulting messages to his stewards etc. It would be the work of a half hour. There is more to this.

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Maybe it'll work out that Doucheba- er, Neo-Rand, figured that by virtue of crossing the streams - giving Moridin some sort of quasi-access to what Rand might be up to at whatever given time - that it would be in their, Rand et al's, interest that Rand would be privy to the least amount of information possible concerning the disposition of the good guys' forces up until the moment before the crap hits the fan?

 

..Or...something?

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We know what Egwene wants to gain at Merrilor: the Seals unbroken and control over the Light's forces. Now the question is, what does Rand hope to gain from their confrontation.

 

Egwene doesn't realise this but Rand holds all the cards and I think he will use them to demand a lot more than what anyone expects. We have some glimmer of this from Aviendha's visions of the future entailing a "Dragon's peace."

 

Basically, Rand decides when Tarmon Gaidon happens and if anyone wants to be there, it will be at his indulgence. He has Callandor, two t'averen, the horn of Valere, the aiel armies unquestioningly behind him and presumably will have the black tower too when he takes care of that. The Seanchan are a wildcard but probably more likely to follow him than the Amyrlin Seat. What Egwene can muster up besides that will be meager.

 

And besides, he has the most important card of all to play: Himself. Without him, everyone dies. He can play exceedingly high stakes with this card because the whole world thinks he is mad and might just be mad enough to break the world as it is.

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Actually he didn't say no, he said later, so there's no need to stop him yet. Unless she can be 100% sure, without any doubt at all, not even the smallest, that he is most definitely, completely wrong.

 

She said we must talk about this and plan. Rand responded with that's why I came to you, to let you plan in an amused manner. Yes farther along he talks about the meeting at FoM but it's not exactly saying later in an open manner. He antagonized her...his mannerisms while doing it and the way he discusses it later make this pretty clear.

 

Yeah he did, which is why it's perfectly normal for her to react as she did. However, he did say they would talk about it at the FoM, and he said he would break the seals afterwards. Egwene has had a month to think things through and process new information she's recieved. While her immediate reaction was understandable, with time she should have seen things differently.

 

Also, it doesn't really matter, but I wonder how much Egwene really was going to discuss Rand's plan there. I doubt she went from thinking that it was a something that might be acceptable, to thinking that it was completely insane to break the seals. I don't think she really considered it was an acceptable option to break the seals. She may have said she wanted to talk about it, but I suspect much of that would have been trying to convince Rand that he's wrong in thinking that the seals must be broken.

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You are going WAY overboard, she is not "usurping his command", she disagrees with this particular action, an action he clearly expected and wanted her to disagree with.

 

Egwene's own take on the situation: "Obliquely, she realized what she is doing. She was using Rand's proclamation as a beacon by which to gather and tie the monarchs to the White Tower. They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve mankind in the last battle."

 

Those that are currently under Rand's command she hopes to have under her own command by the end of the meeting at Merrilor. She doesn't want to say this so baldly of course since it conflicts with her image of herself, so she is only obliquely aware of it. Rand is more than obliquely aware of Egwene's personality and ambitions and correctly deduced that such an attempt, a usurpation as I called it, would take place. So he decided to deny her the opportunity to chose the time and place of battle, like any good general should. He outmaneuvered her. We know what Egwene wants to gain at Merrilor: the Seals unbroken and control over the Light's forces. Now the question is, what does Rand hope to gain from their confrontation.

 

Riiight... and where in that does she say she plans to get rid of Rand and command the armies against the DO herself? It doesn't say, "they would serve the white tower in the last battle".

 

Seems a lot of people always try to make every political move as some sinister plot to rule the world or something. While I haven't seen any "Egwene thinks she's empress of the world" quotes recently, things like this seem to amount to the same thing. If any ruler has even the slightest self-interest in anything someone else does, they are something akin to a darkfriend. Even if they truly believe that it would be better for everyone, even if we know it truly would be better for everyone, and even if the target party AGREES willingly, none of that matters because it is apparently disgusting to even think about tugging someone towards your own way of thinking, for any purpose.

 

It just seems so naive. I mean Rand has been pulling people all over the place the whole books. But it's ok because his purpose is mandated by prophecy right? Everyone else who even thinks of doing it, even for the greater good, even if they're right, is as good as shadowspawn.

Edited by Kael Pyralis
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You are going WAY overboard, she is not "usurping his command", she disagrees with this particular action, an action he clearly expected and wanted her to disagree with.

 

Egwene's own take on the situation: "Obliquely, she realized what she is doing. She was using Rand's proclamation as a beacon by which to gather and tie the monarchs to the White Tower. They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve mankind in the last battle."

 

Those that are currently under Rand's command she hopes to have under her own command by the end of the meeting at Merrilor. She doesn't want to say this so baldly of course since it conflicts with her image of herself, so she is only obliquely aware of it. Rand is more than obliquely aware of Egwene's personality and ambitions and correctly deduced that such an attempt, a usurpation as I called it, would take place. So he decided to deny her the opportunity to chose the time and place of battle, like any good general should. He outmaneuvered her. We know what Egwene wants to gain at Merrilor: the Seals unbroken and control over the Light's forces. Now the question is, what does Rand hope to gain from their confrontation.

 

Riiight... and where in that does she say she plans to get rid of Rand and command the armies against the DO herself? It doesn't say, "they would serve the white tower in the last battle".

 

Seems a lot of people always try to make every political move as some sinister plot to rule the world or something. While I haven't seen any "Egwene thinks she's empress of the world" quotes recently, things like this seem to amount to the same thing. If any ruler has even the slightest self-interest in anything someone else does, they are something akin to a darkfriend. Even if they truly believe that it would be better for everyone, even if we know it truly would be better for everyone, and even if the target party AGREES willingly, none of that matters because it is apparently disgusting to even think about tugging someone towards your own way of thinking, for any purpose.

 

It just seems so naive. I mean Rand has been pulling people all over the place the whole books. But it's ok because his purpose is mandated by prophecy right? Everyone else who even thinks of doing it, even for the greater good, even if they're right, is as good as shadowspawn.

 

Hyperbole much? You said my use of the word "usurp" was WAAAAY overboard. I demonstrated that Egwene hopes to have command over those gathered at Merrilor by meetings end, primarily those who are currently under Rand's command. In other words she plans to usurp him. I further hypothesise that he is well aware that she would want to do so, given his long-standing association with her. Then you started ranting about shadowspawn and stuff.

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Well, they all eventually agreed to go where Egwene wanted, and she doesn't have a solid plan either. Nope; the argument that Rand couldn't have summoned those armies himself just makes no sense to me. Most of them are actually his armies, or at least his allies.

The key may be that word "most". Rand could have summoned all those armies EXCEPT the Aes Sedai and the Tower Guard. Would Egwene have showed up just on his word? Hell no, she considers she has at least equal say in any plans against the Shadow. She would have demanded to know his plans and if he held back or told her the current "smash the seals" plans, she would have told him, yeah, we have better things to do, thanks. She certainly wouldn't show up with the WT alone against the combined rest of the forces of Light.

 

But with this plan, Rand lets her gather a bunch of his forces and show up ready to confront him, bolstered by a bunch of forces nominally following her, but which Rand has to be pretty confident he can get to follow him.

 

One possibility I see, at any rate.

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You are going WAY overboard, she is not "usurping his command", she disagrees with this particular action, an action he clearly expected and wanted her to disagree with.

 

Egwene's own take on the situation: "Obliquely, she realized what she is doing. She was using Rand's proclamation as a beacon by which to gather and tie the monarchs to the White Tower. They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve mankind in the last battle."

 

Those that are currently under Rand's command she hopes to have under her own command by the end of the meeting at Merrilor. She doesn't want to say this so baldly of course since it conflicts with her image of herself, so she is only obliquely aware of it. Rand is more than obliquely aware of Egwene's personality and ambitions and correctly deduced that such an attempt, a usurpation as I called it, would take place. So he decided to deny her the opportunity to chose the time and place of battle, like any good general should. He outmaneuvered her. We know what Egwene wants to gain at Merrilor: the Seals unbroken and control over the Light's forces. Now the question is, what does Rand hope to gain from their confrontation.

 

Riiight... and where in that does she say she plans to get rid of Rand and command the armies against the DO herself? It doesn't say, "they would serve the white tower in the last battle".

 

Seems a lot of people always try to make every political move as some sinister plot to rule the world or something. While I haven't seen any "Egwene thinks she's empress of the world" quotes recently, things like this seem to amount to the same thing. If any ruler has even the slightest self-interest in anything someone else does, they are something akin to a darkfriend. Even if they truly believe that it would be better for everyone, even if we know it truly would be better for everyone, and even if the target party AGREES willingly, none of that matters because it is apparently disgusting to even think about tugging someone towards your own way of thinking, for any purpose.

 

It just seems so naive. I mean Rand has been pulling people all over the place the whole books. But it's ok because his purpose is mandated by prophecy right? Everyone else who even thinks of doing it, even for the greater good, even if they're right, is as good as shadowspawn.

 

Egwene will choose the Tower over Rand everytime, even when Rand is right. She even stated that she had to "confront him infront of the Tower." Not compromise or plan, but confront. This doesn't benefit Randland in anyway but it rather solidifies her position as a "hard" Amrylin.

 

And before you claim that Egwene isn't trying to usurp control over the forces of the light. I'll leave you with this quote

 

"Is that all there is for me?" she demanded. "To abandon him again and again. To betray him, fail him, again and again? Is that what there is for me?"

 

I firmly believe that Egwene is Latra Posae reborn, but this time she won't achieve her Fateful Concord.

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You are going WAY overboard, she is not "usurping his command", she disagrees with this particular action, an action he clearly expected and wanted her to disagree with.

 

Egwene's own take on the situation: "Obliquely, she realized what she is doing. She was using Rand's proclamation as a beacon by which to gather and tie the monarchs to the White Tower. They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve mankind in the last battle."

 

Those that are currently under Rand's command she hopes to have under her own command by the end of the meeting at Merrilor. She doesn't want to say this so baldly of course since it conflicts with her image of herself, so she is only obliquely aware of it. Rand is more than obliquely aware of Egwene's personality and ambitions and correctly deduced that such an attempt, a usurpation as I called it, would take place. So he decided to deny her the opportunity to chose the time and place of battle, like any good general should. He outmaneuvered her. We know what Egwene wants to gain at Merrilor: the Seals unbroken and control over the Light's forces. Now the question is, what does Rand hope to gain from their confrontation.

 

Riiight... and where in that does she say she plans to get rid of Rand and command the armies against the DO herself? It doesn't say, "they would serve the white tower in the last battle".

 

Seems a lot of people always try to make every political move as some sinister plot to rule the world or something. While I haven't seen any "Egwene thinks she's empress of the world" quotes recently, things like this seem to amount to the same thing. If any ruler has even the slightest self-interest in anything someone else does, they are something akin to a darkfriend. Even if they truly believe that it would be better for everyone, even if we know it truly would be better for everyone, and even if the target party AGREES willingly, none of that matters because it is apparently disgusting to even think about tugging someone towards your own way of thinking, for any purpose.

 

It just seems so naive. I mean Rand has been pulling people all over the place the whole books. But it's ok because his purpose is mandated by prophecy right? Everyone else who even thinks of doing it, even for the greater good, even if they're right, is as good as shadowspawn.

 

Egwene will choose the Tower over Rand everytime, even when Rand is right. She even stated that she had to "confront him infront of the Tower." Not compromise or plan, but confront. This doesn't benefit Randland in anyway but it rather solidifies her position as a "hard" Amrylin.

 

And before you claim that Egwene isn't trying to usurp control over the forces of the light. I'll leave you with this quote

 

"Is that all there is for me?" she demanded. "To abandon him again and again. To betray him, fail him, again and again? Is that what there is for me?"

 

I firmly believe that Egwene is Latra Posae reborn, but this time she won't achieve her Fateful Concord.

 

a) She's dedicated to defeating the shadow, in the same way Moiraine was. Moiraine states a couple time she would kill all the boys before she let them endanger the world.

 

b.1) You're putting way too much emphasis on "confront" to try to suggest that's any proof that she's trying to "usurp control". She obviously has differing opinion of some things he's done, ordered done, or looked the other way on. Some of which she's woefully misinformed about. That by no means suggests she's hoping to, wants to, or plans to depose him and take command of the Last Battle.

 

b.2) This is exactly what I'm talking about. Oh my god she's playing politics. You're mad at her because she met him in front of the hall instead of alone? Had she not mentioned it in her PoV you wouldn't have even cared. It's not the action you hate, it's her reasoning. And that's ridiculous, how dare she not hurt anyone or anything but use a situation that will happen anyway to try and strengthen her position. How would being a weak puppet Amyrlin help Randland?

 

c.1) Elayne and Nynaeve took the same test, yet people don't show any worry about them. Maybe you should be as furious that Nynaeve hasn't shrugged off all her duty to the tower and to the world and run off to help Lan by herself.

 

c.2) Pretty sure losing the last battle would be pretty bad for the White Tower too.

 

c.3) So as Latra reborn, Rand will still succeed in his plans (as well as they could succeed) and Egwene will dominate in the ground battle against the shadow and her choice will have saved the female half of the source? Not sure she'd be uncool with that.

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Egwene will choose the Tower over Rand everytime, even when Rand is right. She even stated that she had to "confront him infront of the Tower." Not compromise or plan, but confront. This doesn't benefit Randland in anyway but it rather solidifies her position as a "hard" Amrylin.

 

Come now we have seen time and time again her ultimate goal is to fight the shadow. It's not like she has some devious scheme for the WT. If Rand had laid out a plan, discussed why the seals needed to be broken and asked for help researching the situation she would have thrown her full support behind him.

 

I firmly believe that Egwene is Latra Posae reborn, but this time she won't achieve her Fateful Concord.

 

You do realize LPD saved the world from utter destruction since her decision kept Saidar from being tainted. On top of that she was then the single most prominent player against the shadow during the breaking earning the honorific Shadar Nor.

 

She thought LTT's plan was to dangerous and she turned out to be right. I don't think that really applies to Egwene and the seals.

Edited by Suttree
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about the "too dangerous"; that does not necessarily make the action wrong.

"right" actions can at times be dangerous.

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In a world with Saidar tainted as well as Saidin, over the course of three thousand years of all channellers being killed as soon as they are noticed out of pure fear. There would be no White Tower, no Damane, no channeling Aiel, no channeling windfinders. The occasional channeller that grew to power before being killed would wreak devastation around them as the madness finally took it'a toll, or would join the ranks of the shadowsworn.

 

There would have been nothing to stop the trollocs on winternight, nothing to stop Fain succeeding in his original quest for the dark one. Come the final battle (if there even were a battle), there would be no counter to the dread lords, and the forces of the shadow would sweep to victory.

 

LPD refusing to assist LTT was the one act that averted that fate, averted sure and certain victory for the dark.

 

With respect to your point mb, I would disagree - any course of action that is 'too dangerous' has either been mis-identified, or is not the correct course to take. There may well be risks associated with the course you take, but those risks should always be outweighed by the risks of inaction, or alternate action.

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But if saidar and saidin had been used together to seal the bore in the first place, then it might have worked and there would have been no backlash and no taint at all...

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But if saidar and saidin had been used together to seal the bore in the first place, then it might have worked and there would have been no backlash and no taint at all...

 

Not true, per RJ it was a "lucky thing" Saidar wasn't used as it would have been tainted as well. The plan was flawed, that is one of the reasons Rand knows he can't try to seal the bore the same way.

Edited by Suttree
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With respect to your point mb, I would disagree - any course of action that is 'too dangerous' has either been mis-identified, or is not the correct course to take. There may well be risks associated with the course you take, but those risks should always be outweighed by the risks of inaction, or alternate action.

 

They were. If LTT had not acted the DO's forces would have finally defeated the Light's armies. There was no more time to plan something else. He had to act, and he did. It didn't work as well as hoped, and there was a terrible backlash, but in the end had he not acted, the DO would have won.

 

By refusing to aid LTT in his plan, even when it seemed that she should as there was no other option, LPD allowed for saidar to remain untainted, and undoubtebly saved the world in the long run. By acting, despite not being able to implement his plan perfectly, due to the lack of women, and the great risk involved, LTT saved the world, though no one remembers it, because of the side effect of the sealing: the counterstroke.

 

In truth, LTT gained precious time for the Light, and LPD made it possible for that time to be worth something.

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Hmm...the Latra thing...this is a bit of tangent, but I wonder if she was Latra, would Rand realise it? He did recognise Mierin, after all. And he knows Egwene a lot better than some random blonde woman. Some of the stuff he said to her in the WT was a bit odd. Like, "You have done your part, I see." How was that her part, exactly? And that stuff about fearing that his accomplishments wouldn't be his own and he'd be insignificant. Could have just been BS's take on things, but it certainly wasn't stuff I'd ever heard Rand think about the AS before. Sounds like the sort of stuff LTT might have thought about his rival, though. I dunno.

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Hmm...the Latra thing...this is a bit of tangent, but I wonder if she was Latra, would Rand realise it? He did recognise Mierin, after all. And he knows Egwene a lot better than some random blonde woman. Some of the stuff he said to her in the WT was a bit odd. Like, "You have done your part, I see." How was that her part, exactly? And that stuff about fearing that his accomplishments wouldn't be his own and he'd be insignificant. Could have just been BS's take on things, but it certainly wasn't stuff I'd ever heard Rand think about the AS before. Sounds like the sort of stuff LTT might have thought about his rival, though. I dunno.

 

That's the most fun thing about that whole conversation, for my money. We know what Egwene was thinking throughout. We don't have a sweet clue what was going through Rand's head. Was he as confident as he seemed, or was he drawing on his experiences in both lives to project confidence despite being nervous as heck? Was he thinking "Oh hey, this is a pretty accurate 1/10th scale replica of the Hall of Servants! Except for the color scheme of course." Did he have his bombshell planned before he walked in, or did he make the decision right there on the spot? Was he looking at the faces of the Aes Sedai in the Hall and thinking "Oh hey, there's Katra, and there's Vynessa, and there's Jayne over there, good to see some familiar souls." Was he thinking that as nice as it was to have no more voices in his head, he felt alone without a crazy man gibbering in the back of his head?

 

All sorts of fun possible.

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With respect to your point mb, I would disagree - any course of action that is 'too dangerous' has either been mis-identified, or is not the correct course to take. There may well be risks associated with the course you take, but those risks should always be outweighed by the risks of inaction, or alternate action.

 

They were. If LTT had not acted the DO's forces would have finally defeated the Light's armies. There was no more time to plan something else. He had to act, and he did. It didn't work as well as hoped, and there was a terrible backlash, but in the end had he not acted, the DO would have won.

 

By refusing to aid LTT in his plan, even when it seemed that she should as there was no other option, LPD allowed for saidar to remain untainted, and undoubtebly saved the world in the long run. By acting, despite not being able to implement his plan perfectly, due to the lack of women, and the great risk involved, LTT saved the world, though no one remembers it, because of the side effect of the sealing: the counterstroke.

 

In truth, LTT gained precious time for the Light, and LPD made it possible for that time to be worth something.

LTT's plan didn't actually address the problem of the military forces arrayed against them. Doubtless the Light's efforts were aided no end by the Shadow's high command being caught in the Bore, including the three generals about to launch big pushes against the Light's forces, but that wasn't part of the plan. What was he going to do about that? "Good news, everybody. The Dark One is sealed away." "Um, boss, what about those armies? How are we going to stop them?" ".....D'oh."
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With respect to your point mb, I would disagree - any course of action that is 'too dangerous' has either been mis-identified, or is not the correct course to take. There may well be risks associated with the course you take, but those risks should always be outweighed by the risks of inaction, or alternate action.

 

They were. If LTT had not acted the DO's forces would have finally defeated the Light's armies. There was no more time to plan something else. He had to act, and he did. It didn't work as well as hoped, and there was a terrible backlash, but in the end had he not acted, the DO would have won.

 

By refusing to aid LTT in his plan, even when it seemed that she should as there was no other option, LPD allowed for saidar to remain untainted, and undoubtebly saved the world in the long run. By acting, despite not being able to implement his plan perfectly, due to the lack of women, and the great risk involved, LTT saved the world, though no one remembers it, because of the side effect of the sealing: the counterstroke.

 

In truth, LTT gained precious time for the Light, and LPD made it possible for that time to be worth something.

LTT's plan didn't actually address the problem of the military forces arrayed against them. Doubtless the Light's efforts were aided no end by the Shadow's high command being caught in the Bore, including the three generals about to launch big pushes against the Light's forces, but that wasn't part of the plan. What was he going to do about that? "Good news, everybody. The Dark One is sealed away." "Um, boss, what about those armies? How are we going to stop them?" ".....D'oh."

 

True, but I'm talking about what ended up happening, not what could have happened if things had gone differently. LTT's plan already had a flaw, which is what allowed the DO to taint saidin. He didn't know the top forsaken would be there, but then he didn't plan on the taint either.

 

Had saidin not been tainted, and LTT survived the sealing, but the top Forsaken not been sealed, well things may have gone down the same as they did in reality. The DO's forces may have started fighting amongst themselves. In any case, sealing the DO away is always a big step towards victory even if you then have to deal with his armies. Even with him still not completely free, we can see in the books the terrible effects he's having on the world. The DO is what keeps the Shadow's armies together. With him gone, there's a major hole in the leadership, one that the top Forsaken would surely be all for taking advantage of.

 

If LTT's plan had worked as it was supposed to, then no, not everything would have been solved, but then LPD could have majorly screwed by not aiding LTT, even when is plan was the only option left. Things didn't turn out this way anyway. They turned out the way they did, and it turns out that both LTT, and LPD saved the world in their own way.

Edited by Master Ablar
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Sealing the Dark One would have been a massive blow to the morale of the armies of the Shadow. The Forsaken would lose their one unifying factor and probably fall upon one another in an attempt to be the new head honcho of the Shadow's forces. Even if the Shadow's forces didn't tear themselves apart it would give the Light forces a great victory to rally around. The fact that the Shadow would no longer have a dark God actively aiding them would surely count for something too.

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Back on topic, as the LTT LPD discussions never lead anywhere, Rand acted as he did not just to get Egwene to act, but so that she'll act quickly. Rand is operating on a tight schedule and he can't afford the world to dither around when he's not around to whip them into action. Making her angry with him was the quickest and easiest way to do it. Afterall she's his ex-girlfriend there isn't anything easier for him than getting her to oppose him.

 

The Hall of the Tower is a great debate club, but it isn't suitable at all for quick, decisive action. That much is obvious by Egwene's own actions to bypass the Hall at any opportunity. Had Rand given them the chance they would be arguing for months before they finally acted. Like this they are united in his opposition and Rand can just reap the fruits of their labour once he has run over Egwene at Merilor.

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b3arz3rg3r is right. The Hall of the Tower is the ultimate example of the bad, slow part of bureaucracy and democracy combined - Ultimate slowness.

 

in doing what he did, he achieved his goal in about 15 minutes. Egwene makes sure all forces loyal to the light and maybe even a few who aren't will be at FoM. It looks like he doesn;t have to expect any trouble getting command back. practically, he's their King already. the only ones who he will have to convince at FoM are the Aes Sedai. Morraine might help a hand here - she has a reputation in 20 years that exceeds even that of Cadsuane's 300 years. Single-handidly killing a Forsaken is quite a rare deed among the AS.

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Morraine might help a hand here - she has a reputation in 20 years that exceeds even that of Cadsuane's 300 years. Single-handidly killing a Forsaken is quite a rare deed among the AS.

 

 

Two Forsaken actually :wink:

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