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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
phantasypunk

Biggest inconsistencies in WOT?

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I think it would be fun to have a contest to see who could find the biggest internal inconsistency in the books, i.e. when one book or section totally contradicts what jordan wrote in another section that can't be explained away by our knowledge of WOT.

 

I can think of dozens of examples of when this happens (I guess jordan's only human!) but what do you guys think the WORST example is??

 

I guess I'll start us off by a couple: At the end of EOTW moiraine notes she should have realized Rand was the one that could channel because when they were leaving the two rivers, he unconsciously healed Bela (he was worried about egwene, who was riding her). However, Rand only got 'channeling sickness' after his SECOND noted channeling attempt, which was when he killed the darkfriends with lightning on the way to caemlyn.

 

A second example could be, for instance, that Moiraine says in tSR she doesn't know where Lan is (when he doesn't show up to Rand's performance in the stone because he's off getting sander to go to tanchico), but she knows he's close by--even though, as proven everywhere else in the books, warder-channeler connections do not tell either party where or in which direction they are, only that they are alive.

 

Another would be that thom and bayle doman act like they've never met in tSR even though they met on the boat to baerlon in EOTW.

 

I'm sure you guys can come up with hundreds more (I don't want to even start stealing the better and most obvious ones)!!

 

Still, lets remember to keep these only to when the book contradicts ITSELF, not when it contradicts reality (i.e., according to real world economics, mat could NEVER make enough money gambling to hire 36000 soldiers like in KOD, or how could no two rivers folk die when fighting 40 trollocs and a fade with Perrin in tSR when in the next fight they had 27 die and many more wounded, or even why, in 100000 pages, do we never see ANY of the main characters go to the bathroom!!) since if we added all of those this thread would never end!

 

Take it away guys!

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well first off rands first power acquisition fever occured in baerlon in his ecounter with the children of light.

 

warder bonds do indeed tell in which direction the bonded is,we see this through out the books.the further away the person is the vaguer the direction gets,we see this when elayne comments on how rand is jumping bout all day (not sure wich book),how he is in the east then the west etc.

 

as to the thom/domon case you don't rememver everyone you see,and domon did give a look which hinted he might have recalled the gleeman,there is debate about it.

 

and weren't the trollocs asleep when perrin and the others killed them?when they all got killed slayer had directed the trollocs to an ambush.

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Your first point is not true. Rand experiences the after effects when he's in Barleon and is spotted by the White Cloaks. That's why he has the reaction of smiling at them and then total dizziness.

 

Your second point is also untrue, as Rand can tell were all of his women are, Elayne, Avi, and Min can all tell where Rand is, Lan tracks down that one Aes Sedai from his bond, and a bunch of other places.

 

And your final point is techincally true, because Bayle doesn't recognize Thom in the first edition of the book, yet in the paperback addition he does. He shows no surprise at seeing a gleeman.

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Guest cwestervelt

That is actually incorrect. Rand's first bought of Channelling sickness occurred in Baerlon and led up to his altercation with the Whitecloaks. It isn't readily apparent as it came right after the Rat dream and we were unaware of what it signified at the time.

 

Personally, I like it when Rand seizes Saidar in Lord or Chaos after Alanna bonds him. Page 204 of the first American printing.

 

Addition: Sorry to double the statement of the last two postings about channelling sickness. Only the original post, not the replies were there when I started mine. I knew I shouldn't have taken the time to verify the Rand seizing Saidar issue.

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Guest cwestervelt
rochaid: well first off rands first power acquisition fever occured in baerlon in his ecounter with the children of light.

 

warder bonds do indeed tell in which direction the bonded is,we see this through out the books.the further away the person is the vaguer the direction gets,we see this when elayne comments on how rand is jumping bout all day (not sure wich book),how he is in the east then the west etc.

 

as to the thom/domon case you don't rememver everyone you see,and domon did give a look which hinted he might have recalled the gleeman,there is debate about it.

 

and weren't the trollocs asleep when perrin and the others killed them?when they all got killed slayer had directed the trollocs to an ambush.

 

The best example of how an Aes Sedai can locate their warder is with Alanna and Rand. First in Lord of Chaos and later in Winter's Heart her bond with Rand was what allowed people to catch up with him. Not to mention Rand pointing straight at her when he was getting Healed after Dumai's Wells even though she was never in a spot where he could see her.

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In the glossary, under Warder:

 

"...The bonding does not tell her how far he is, though, nor in what direction..."

 

it's not presnted as one of those "everyone thinks that..." like some glossary entries, so there's an inconsistency somewhere.

 

Also, the quote from tSR about thom and domon was "Thom's cloak made Domon's eyebrows rise" in my edition (p. 653). Thom made quite an impression on domon when they rode, and they talked quite a bit on the boat, and it's a bit of a coincidence that neither of them recognize each other when most other characters make connections within seconds.

 

Geez, though, these were just some starters--there's way clearer mistakes in the books, though I didnt try and chronicle every single one (these are just some off the top of my head!).

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Rand also suffers from 'channeling sickness' on Domon's boat after escaping from Shadar Logoth.

 

The Rand seizing Saidar issue, as you put it, is just a minor editing error and in a series the size of the Wheel of Time its bound to crop up on occasion. Its not really an example of internal inconsistency in the books.

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There are internal inconsistancies though... especially with early use of the power, travelling, fights with the power and so forth.

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How about the big inconsistancy that greets us at the begining of each book,

 

"There are neither beginings or endings in the turning of the Wheel, but is was a begining."

 

How can it be a begining if there are no beginings?

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Thats not an 'error' in the context of this thread.

A wheel doesn't have a beggining nor an ending. but if you mark a certain spot and say this is 'a' beginning. its somewhat true. It isn't the 'only beginning' and the only 'ending', as beggining and endings go into infinity.

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Another thing about inconsitancies is that

 

1. RJ had to make SOME changes in order to allow for certain events

 

2. The characters in the books are constently gaining new abilities

 

3. Each Aes Sedai is different in their stregths so that may have something to do with feeling warders

 

4. Rand can channel so bonds with him and other ashaman have differences from normal bondings

 

5. The bonding doesn't give a direction nor place exactly, but that doesn't mean that those bonded can't at least now the cardinal direction of their partner.

 

6. Also Glossaries don't have every single background detail to explain it. We are supposed to read the books. The glossary is just a back up so we don't go of thinking that bonding is a board game.

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oh for crying out loud man, we all know that the only reason they've been holding in their piss and sh1t for like 2-3 yrs is that they're planning to drown the freakin DO in excretion at TG! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize thats how they're gonna win the last battle does it brutha?

 

Oh and wouldn't it be an awesome fantasy series when every few pages we have:

'Rand, putting down Callandor, suddenly feels pressure in his bladder "Er...Min, i'll be a minute mkay? don't get undressed without me, i want to take that skimpy piece of lace off with my teeth" "hmph, thats the 9th time you've done that today! maybe you should get a check up hun?" "i don't know, but this stupidassed writer keeps making me go to the toilet...thats why the action takes around 100023423523405 pages to go from picking up the sword to actually scratching someone with it" *a fade appears from no where whilst Rand is off sh1ttin in his potty, diorhea actually, the weevils again...turns out to be shaidar haran who blackfires Mins thong off...rand returns*

"ASDFA;SLDKJFASDFF WTF! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU BIIIIIIATCH! THATS IT I'VE HAD IT, I'M OFF TO FIND ELAYNE AND WHATSITSFACE CAVEGIRL!"

And so...i believe the perils of going to the loo, my friend, has been succintly illustrated.

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I was very surprised that in my issue (german) of TSR Avendesora has only one broken branch and in TFOH it is almost burnt down! :wink:

 

Was that corrected in later printings?

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This is not a big inconsistency. I'm not even sure inconsistency is the right word ... its more of a very little mistake ... but in my hardback (1992) version of The Shadow Rising, (chapter 35 Sharp Lessons) after Amys scares the dingleberries out of Egwene for visiting Tel'aran'rhiod without permission, Amys tells her to come and join the others, who are waiting in the sweat tent. The following Egwene POV quote follows:

 

For the first time Egwene realized Nynaeve's blankets were empty.

 

Now, since Nynaeve was in Tanchico, thats obviously not right. My paperback (1993) moreover says "Moiraine's blankets" in the same place.

 

Signifigance? Absolutely none. I just reread that part recently so I remembered it.

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The most glaring inconsistencies for me all have to do with logistics.

 

I've already gone into the problems I have with how the hordes of Trollocs are sustained within the Blight, so I won't belabor that.

 

Normal folks have many of the same problems. There are cities great and small. Towns, villages hamlets. But, they're scattered all over the place, and other than a smattering of farms in the vicinity of each, everything else is wilderness.

 

So, where's all the food coming from? How is that population being sustained from a pre-industrial food growing standpoint? And, if Rand can field over 2 million soldiers for the upcoming battle, the overall population has to be in excess of 100 million people, but according to the books very few of them live and work on farms.

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I thoroughly enjoyed your post dimmu666, very funny :lol: That being said I look at it this way the inconsistencies and errors are minor and most if not all should know what he meant. As long as Callandor doesn't suddenly become a chicken or starships fly out of nowhere to aid the light. I wll keep reading.

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Callandor turns into a chicken? And the Enterprise drops in on Tarmon Gai'don?! Bestseller for SURE!

 

"Hey Mat, now that we crushed Shai'tan with our photon torpedos for you, what do we get?"

 

"Fried Callandor, Mr. Spock?"

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Blood and bloody ashes Robert you named the damn Dark One again...nothing happens...another freaking inconsistency, why are there so many? :cry:

 

Seriously Robert Jordan has done a lot to give us a backround for this world and in any book series this long there will be things that just don't match up but lets just enjoy the storytelling people, come on.

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The main problem with Bob's 'insoncistancy' is that what you see and read in wot, isn't necisarrilly the 'entire world'. You only see what the author lets you see. Needless to say, every town has many farms surrounding them... You may see a few near the edge of the road heading between town to town, but behind towns, and basically scattered are many different farms. Hell, depending on the size of the farm, 2-4 farms, with various food products and meats, could easilly suppl the town, the farm familes, and probably more being exported to the various cities. The cities them selves probabl have entire farm colonies made to feed the city.

 

Its kinda like industrial briton. Everyone was going to the city. But who were farming?

After all, Bob could take a book dealing with some event happening in briton or something, he could be asking 'where does all the food come from?' Afte rall, you don't see any farms. Obviously since the author doesn't show them to you they don't exist. Right?

 

So simply, inconsistancies on the nature of what you don't see are far less valid, or meaningfull then inconsitancies that are actually written. Entire dialogues or plot threads that contridict each other.

Shining Example is the Eotw misprint when rand met the same farmer twice.. Once before the inn where he used lightning, and after. :P

INFACT RJ wrote a sequence where rand, after being injured *this was the missprint* where rand said to him self that 'the more he walks the easier it gets' which sounds like a prelude to his aiel hiertage, then got scrapped, probably for more then one reason. *1 being it would be like 'elves' and how they can see better, why make aiel naturally better runnerse? Rather then there life style?*

 

I mean, had RJ never said The land of the madmen existed, we'd never know of its existance, as they aren't listed anywhere in the books. So obviously bob, the isle of the madmen doesnt exist! And if you want to get into things like 'how can trollocs live off of raiding humans? Or how does a city not starve with so few farms?' Then you need to ask your self. How can an Island the size of Australia... Filled with many many tribes, who constantly killing each other, with male/female channelers.. How are they still alive? Obviously since everyones killing everyones all the time, theres no time for farming. Let alone animal herding...

The best thing you can do is stop Nitpicking all the little details that are off the screens, and just nitpick the ones that are on the screen.

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What bothers me is in The Fires of Heaven.

 

When Suain's warder gets stabbed outside her room she has no warning of it through her bond and only discovers he's dead on being dragged out of the room! I would have thought she would have some indication of what was happening. There are so many examples through out the later books of feeling the other's feeling and wondering what they are at ect. Or in the case of Rand and Elayne getting busy with it, wishing you wrap the feelings in a 'bubble' as can sometimes be accomplished.

 

Maybe Suain has blocked out her Warders bond temporarily, i dunno, doesn't really ring true!

 

Anyway had to register and post and see what some of you experts think cos its annoying me.

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Here is a quote from the Wheel of Time encyclopedia that might help:

 

"In his blog, Jordan clarified that Alric ran into the anteroom and was stabbed only a moment before Siuan was led out. He is not yet dead. Her awareness of his stabbing was overwhelmed by her shock at being arrested."

 

Apparently Siuan did not follow the common Borderland ideal of never being surprised which fits since she is from Tear and this instance was a rather large deviation from reality from her point of view. I can't remember the first time I read it but I know that even when I have re-read it recently and I already know what is going to happen I am still thinking how ridiculous it is. This has to be one of the major wounds the Shadow inflicts on the Light throughout the series even though Elaida isn't necessarily a Black sister. In this situation as well as others she was doing exactly what the Dark One wanted.

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Thanks KK. I guess that explains it alright. I suppose the shock that Alric was feeling would be the same as what she's feeling at the sudden events occurring and she did not have time to distinguish her own from Alric's

 

BTW, my bad it was in TSR not FOH it happened in....

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The main problem with Bob's 'insoncistancy' is that what you see and read in wot, isn't necisarrilly the 'entire world'. You only see what the author lets you see. Needless to say, every town has many farms surrounding them... You may see a few near the edge of the road heading between town to town, but behind towns, and basically scattered are many different farms. Hell, depending on the size of the farm, 2-4 farms, with various food products and meats, could easilly suppl the town, the farm familes, and probably more being exported to the various cities. The cities them selves probabl have entire farm colonies made to feed the city.

This is a pre-industrial society, they are just beginning to develope the "modern" of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Before them it took 25-50% of the population on farms to feed society.

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