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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Lisa Campbell

Elza killing Dashiva/Osan'gar

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Just had a thought while posting on another thread and don't know if it has been hashed out before or debunked so forgive me 'cause I'm feeling a bit lazy tonight...

 

Elza only killed Dashiva with Fire (albeit a massive amount of it through Callandor). Could he come back to haunt the Lightside?

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I'm sure he could, but I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't. SH told the 'gars that this was to be their last chance. Giving them yet another seems... uncharacteristic on the DO's side.

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I'm sure he could, but I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't. SH told the 'gars that this was to be their last chance. Giving them yet another seems... uncharacteristic on the DO's side.

 

Yeah like I said it was just a random thought so I wondered if anyone else had an opinion.

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Why would the DO resurrect him? The guy has been an epic failure in the Third Age. There's no sufficient technology or time to make another breed of monsters, and apart from that Aginor was really nothing special.

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Why would the DO resurrect him? The guy has been an epic failure in the Third Age. There's no sufficient technology or time to make another breed of monsters, and apart from that Aginor was really nothing special.

 

He was still nearly as strong as a man can be in the power, but like yoniy0 said, he was given a last chance and he screwed up so I can't see the DO bringing him back.

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I think the author 'hinted' that it was their last chance.

Arangar and Osangar were two poison blades used in a duel in which both fighters usually died at the end.

So they had just one final match to prove their worth.

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I can't remember if Osan'gar was actually told 'last chance' but I could be wrong.

 

I think last chance refers more to Cyndane as the DO probably knows that she is a candidate to go lightside. She spoke of challenging the DO with Rand early on and she wasn't really following Ishy/Moridin's orders back then, she seemed to have her own agenda rather than luring Rand to the darkside. That is why she is mind trapped now and completely under Moridin's domination.

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Well, not in so many words, but the intent was clear:

"You were both given the best that could be taken in the Borderlands." Its voice was a viper rustling in dry grass, "ft is a fine body, strong and healthy. And better than the alternative."

[...]

"Do you not feel gratitude?" the Myrddraal said. "You were dead, and are alive. Think of Rahvin, whose soul is beyond saving, beyond time. You have a chance to serve the Great Lord again, and absolve yourselves of your errors."

[...]

"Then it is time for you to go into the world once more in the service of the Great Lord," Shaidar Haran said. "None but I and the Great Lord know you live. If you succeed, you will live forever and be raised above all others. If you fail.... But you will not fail, will you?" The Halfman did smile then. It was like seeing death smile.

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I wouldnt want to be Osan'gar at the moment.

 

I certainly wouldnt bring him back if i were the DO either. Let him suffer for dying to ONE OF HIS OWN GUYS. :baalzamon:

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I doubt we'll see more of Aginor simply because it'd feel repetitive and the series is far too close to an end to be bringing back Forsaken. That being said, I don't see the Dark One outright refusing to resurrect Aginor because of his failures. Here's a RJ quote;

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Dark One doesn't care about his minions sufficiently to invest much time in their punishment except as it serves to correct their behavior or as object lesson to others, nor is there much in the way of gradation.

 

Leaving him dead out of spite is uncharacteristic of the Dark One if Aginor could still be of use, which he can be. Sure, Aginor may have proven himself a miserable failure when he takes his own initiative, but slap a mind trap on him, put him under Taim's control, and you have the fourth, if not the third, most powerful man from the Age of Legends (who the Dark One values over those from the third age) working for you with someone actually competent pointing him in the right direction.

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Like others told, the Dark One could ressurect Osangar/Aginor if he wanted to.

 

Though like others, it seems unlikely.

 

 

mindtrap, that might be as unlikely as the ressurection.

 

technology; I take only channeling was used in the creation of the original Shadowspawn, not any kind of device/machine/etc.

time; certainly not enough for new types of Shadowspawn, but possibly some for current types.

 

 

If any Forsaken would get a third chance if it dies, the most likely would be Ishamael/Moridin.

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Like others told, the Dark One could ressurect Osangar/Aginor if he wanted to.

 

Though like others, it seems unlikely.

 

 

mindtrap, that might be as unlikely as the ressurection.

 

technology; I take only channeling was used in the creation of the original Shadowspawn, not any kind of device/machine/etc.

time; certainly not enough for new types of Shadowspawn, but possibly some for current types.

 

 

If any Forsaken would get a third chance if it dies, the most likely would be Ishamael/Moridin.

 

Aginor was a geneticist in the AOL, so no he didn't use only the OP. Actually I believe the Shadowspawn were made by blending human and animal stock with a dash of the True Power. In any case, yes there is a certain level of technology he would need to continue to do his scientific work. Remember in the AOL you didn't have to be a channeler to be a big shot scientist. Sure you could do more or other things (plus you lived for 600 years) than a non-channeler, but otherwise it was almost incidental.

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Aginor was a geneticist in the AOL, so no he didn't use only the OP. Actually I believe the Shadowspawn were made by blending human and animal stock with a dash of the True Power.
By "channeling" I meant both One Power and True Power; not just One Power

 

there is a certain level of technology he would need to continue to do his scientific work.
That technology I imagine would have been for other things than Shadowspawn creating.

I recall from the guide that other Forsaken helped in creating Shadowspawn and/or in collecting the stock.

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Aginor was a geneticist in the AOL, so no he didn't use only the OP. Actually I believe the Shadowspawn were made by blending human and animal stock with a dash of the True Power.
By "channeling" I meant both One Power and True Power; not just One Power

 

there is a certain level of technology he would need to continue to do his scientific work.
That technology I imagine would have been for other things than Shadowspawn creating.

I recall from the guide that other Forsaken helped in creating Shadowspawn and/or in collecting the stock.

 

Obviously Aginor would not have been the only geneticist/channel-er to join the Shadow. I may be recalling the Guide (or an interview) incorrectly but I think Jordan made clear that Aginor could not really continue his scientific works anymore, which would indicate that channeling was not the only thing required for the creation of Shadowspawn.

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I never really believed Lanfear would turn on DO

That whole "together we can rule" was to get Rand to join her, and with him at her side she believed she would have been Nblis and been essentially the strongest person on the planet and would have had control over Rand...

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Obviously Aginor would not have been the only geneticist/channel-er to join the Shadow. I may be recalling the Guide (or an interview) incorrectly but I think Jordan made clear that Aginor could not really continue his scientific works anymore, which would indicate that channeling was not the only thing required for the creation of Shadowspawn.
Creating stuff I do not count as science or as sceintific work. Science I count as doing repeated experiements to prove or disprove a theory/statement/etc.

 

If some device/machine/item was used in creating Shadowspawn, I would guess slight chance of it being destroyed.

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Obviously Aginor would not have been the only geneticist/channel-er to join the Shadow. I may be recalling the Guide (or an interview) incorrectly but I think Jordan made clear that Aginor could not really continue his scientific works anymore, which would indicate that channeling was not the only thing required for the creation of Shadowspawn.
Creating stuff I do not count as science or as sceintific work. Science I count as doing repeated experiements to prove or disprove a theory/statement/etc.

 

If some device/machine/item was used in creating Shadowspawn, I would guess slight chance of it being destroyed.

I'm sure he had to do repeated experiments to perfect his method of creating shadowspawn >_> I mean if you really want to go crazy sure, making them wasn't science, but figuring out how to make them was, and that's the most important part.

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i really doubt there was a massive machine that you pushed a human and a pig into, press a button and hey presto, a trolloc pops out....

 

gene-splicing was mentioned in the big white book i think, which is science

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