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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Andhaira

Future of the Seanchan

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Toyed with the idea that Rand might live myself. Don't think so though I recon he will die giving himself to the land his essance to strenthen the pattern were the DO has made it weak. I think his death will heal the blight and SG will be normal like any other part of the world. The Aiel (what's left) will take up again the way of the leaf. The nations will keep the peace out of respect for the dragon. The seachan will keep there lands in randland but will scrap damane when they see the channellers unite in trying to heal the world after the chaos caused by TG. And so another age will begin.

 

rand will live. mark my words. no one dies in WOT. at least not the most important characters.

 

 

besides, it will be a good sendoff for the man. all these years living with the burden of being the one. he does his job and earns a well deserved break with min. he will die of old age.

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Ha ha why not go the whole hog and have him die of old age, and king of the world. But he will die I mean come on what do you do after ruling the world? Golf?

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For all those that don't believe the Seanchan could defeat the combined armies of the west, think of this scenerio:

 

All the armies and aiel fight the trollocs and are slaughtered or at least reduced in strength considerably before Rand seals the bore. Many of the remaining armsmen go back to their farms or to settle the new lands.

 

Due to the infinite wisdom of the Empress, the Seanchan do not commit all of their forces and suffer much smaller losses. In the disheaval after the loss of Rand, they are the most well equiped and organized bunch.

 

Even so they would need a lot of lucky breaks, but it is quite possible.

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I think it's also a question of whether the armies of Randland stand united against the Seanchan or not. If they're divided, they will be easier to conquer. In fact, that's exactly what the Seanchan have been doing. And I think that's what happens - at least partially - in Aviendha's vision. In this future, Rand was not able to unite the Randlanders in a sustainable way. When he died, his peace soon died with with, and it was back to chaos. That's why I think VOG is important. His new, improved self, has a much better shot at truly preventing this from happening than his old dark self did.

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I think a couple of people have missed the point I was trying to make about VoG. VoG. HAD to happen for there to be ANY kind of future. Otherwise rand would have destroyed the world or the boardlanders would of destroyed him there would be NO last battle for Rand if he wouldn't of fixed himself or at least was as he was before dark Rand

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You can't prove that Dark Rand couldn't have won TG. He could have destroyed the Borderlanders with the True Power. He might have left the world a terrible place after winning but claiming he couldn't have done it in that state of mind is impossible to prove unless AMOL shows otherwise.

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My point was when rand was on DM he was on a knife edge it was either destroy the world or fix himself. Do you forget perrin and the wolves when they saw the storm in TAR in ToM. Hopper said it was a choice between fighting TG or nothingness. Dark Rand was going to destroy the pattern before his change of heart are you saying he could of done nethier.

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Okay, let's assume that without VOG, Rand would have destroyed the Pattern and ended everything (which I don't really agree with, but it's not really the point here, so let's assume). The theory that Aviendha's experience was so dark because of Dark Rand still stands. I can see two ways in which it would work:

 

1. She went to Ruhidean several days before VOG I believe. Maybe at that time, he wasn't so far gone and so there was still a chance of him winning TG. Remember that it's almost killing Tam then seeing Ebou Dar that made him want to end it all. Maybe when she entered the rings, he wasn't there yet, and so in his state of mind at that time, he still could have won TG while being dark.

 

2. Or maybe not, there was already no future at that point, but then what did you want the rings to show? Nothingness? They had to show something, so maybe they showed the closest possible future given Rand's state of mind (i.e. if the world did not disappear, what would it be like?).

 

After all, all of these things we see throughout the series - Foretellings, visions, prophecies, etc. are all tied to the Pattern. This has all happened thousands of times before, and will again in the future, as long as the Wheel turns. I don't think the Pattern can take its own destruction into account when providing all these visions of the future. Everything we know of the future stand only so long as there is a future. So the ter'angreal is probably no exception. It showed what the future would be based on the way the Pattern was going at that time, no matter that there might soon not be a Pattern at all, because that's all it could possibly do.

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Why do we all assume the world will end if the Dragon fails to bottle up the DO again? Is that ever explisitly said? What if the future world is what would happen if Rand fails and falls leaving the bore open. Assuming the main characters all fall in the Last Battle, and most of the Trollocs, and most of the adult-age humans, leaving only the young people that we've seen in Avi's glimpse into the future. I'm thinking the Dark One would continue to make the world a progressively darker place as we've al heard of the descriptions of the time between the drilling of the Bore and the Breaking of the World. Without a doubt, this glimpse of the future is Wrong, and what could be more wrong than the Dark One triumphant?

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Why do we all assume the world will end if the Dragon fails to bottle up the DO again? Is that ever explisitly said? What if the future world is what would happen if Rand fails and falls leaving the bore open. Assuming the main characters all fall in the Last Battle, and most of the Trollocs, and most of the adult-age humans, leaving only the young people that we've seen in Avi's glimpse into the future. I'm thinking the Dark One would continue to make the world a progressively darker place as we've al heard of the descriptions of the time between the drilling of the Bore and the Breaking of the World. Without a doubt, this glimpse of the future is Wrong, and what could be more wrong than the Dark One triumphant?

 

 

if the bore is not sealed, the DO can keep pushing throught the bore and the pattern surrounding the bore becomes so weak, it gives way to his force ripping the prison completely and freeing him.

 

but it will take years for that to happen. remember the war of power lasted a hundred years and shaitan was still behind his prison

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There were plans for an outrigger trilogy about the Seanchan.

At least one of them being about Mat & Tuon.

 

Decision to publish any of them would be Harriet's.

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Why do we all assume the world will end if the Dragon fails to bottle up the DO again? Is that ever explisitly said? What if the future world is what would happen if Rand fails and falls leaving the bore open. Assuming the main characters all fall in the Last Battle, and most of the Trollocs, and most of the adult-age humans, leaving only the young people that we've seen in Avi's glimpse into the future. I'm thinking the Dark One would continue to make the world a progressively darker place as we've al heard of the descriptions of the time between the drilling of the Bore and the Breaking of the World. Without a doubt, this glimpse of the future is Wrong, and what could be more wrong than the Dark One triumphant?

 

 

if the bore is not sealed, the DO can keep pushing throught the bore and the pattern surrounding the bore becomes so weak, it gives way to his force ripping the prison completely and freeing him.

 

but it will take years for that to happen. remember the war of power lasted a hundred years and shaitan was still behind his prison

 

Yes, thats pretty much what I said above. The vision got me thinking: the world seems to get progressivly darker, not just for the Aiel but for everyone ground under the heel of tyrany, increased industrialization in the world, and instutionalized chattal slavery. Is it the result if the Dragon failing weather due to his kneeling to the Emperess or any other possible reason? The future vision starts several generations in the future, possibly even as much as 200 years on the outside.

 

My question is this if crappy world could come about by a catastrophic victory of the light or a victory of the dark?

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The future gets dark for everyone except the seanchan. Everyone else is living under seanchan law, which we saw in Ebou Dar is not that bad except if your property,Aiel or can channel.

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Why do we all assume the world will end if the Dragon fails to bottle up the DO again? Is that ever explisitly said? What if the future world is what would happen if Rand fails and falls leaving the bore open. Assuming the main characters all fall in the Last Battle, and most of the Trollocs, and most of the adult-age humans, leaving only the young people that we've seen in Avi's glimpse into the future. I'm thinking the Dark One would continue to make the world a progressively darker place as we've al heard of the descriptions of the time between the drilling of the Bore and the Breaking of the World. Without a doubt, this glimpse of the future is Wrong, and what could be more wrong than the Dark One triumphant?

 

 

if the bore is not sealed, the DO can keep pushing throught the bore and the pattern surrounding the bore becomes so weak, it gives way to his force ripping the prison completely and freeing him.

 

but it will take years for that to happen. remember the war of power lasted a hundred years and shaitan was still behind his prison

 

Yes, thats pretty much what I said above. The vision got me thinking: the world seems to get progressivly darker, not just for the Aiel but for everyone ground under the heel of tyrany, increased industrialization in the world, and instutionalized chattal slavery. Is it the result if the Dragon failing weather due to his kneeling to the Emperess or any other possible reason? The future vision starts several generations in the future, possibly even as much as 200 years on the outside.

 

My question is this if crappy world could come about by a catastrophic victory of the light or a victory of the dark?

 

 

the dragon not kneeling to the empress makes no difference to the gran scheme of things. you see if the bore is not sealed up properly or the dragon dies before completing his mission then the seanchan would be the least of everyone's worry.

 

 

by the way that seanchan vision by aviendha is just a red herring it will never come to pass

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After TG, the Randlanders have gotten soft and weak. Think of Europe after WWI, much reduced military spending, peace and hippie love garbage = inevitable death and defeat.

 

Seanchan are warriors, their societal structure = dominance and victory.

 

Seanchan will use any tactic for victory, Genghis Khan style.

 

The Aiel are warrior,s their societal structure = dominance and victory. However, unlike the Seanchan, their honor code is more strict.

 

 

The Aiel mistake was bringing in the soft wetlanders into the battle. They were easily conquered, they reaped many damane = end of the Aiel, far too many channelers to fight against. Think of Europe and the easy time Hitler had with all the countries except the UK.

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The Aiel mistake was bringing in the soft wetlanders into the battle. They were easily conquered, they reaped many damane = end of the Aiel, far too many channelers to fight against. Think of Europe and the easy time Hitler had with all the countries except the UK.
Russia gave him problems as well.

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The Aiel have channelers as well. In fact, after Tarmon Gaiden they could very well encourage male channelers among themselves as well, unlike the Seanchen who will likely kill off any male channelers found amongst them because they don't have any adam to control them.

 

Honestly, I feel the Seanchen will make a deal with Rand and the Westlands. In return for aid given against the dark one, the Westlands will allow the Seanchen to maintain a small presence there. The majority of the Seancan will be back home across the sea, while a token presence will remain in the Westlands. Furthermore, Rand may even convince them to stop treating channelers like animals and treat them like human beings.

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The Aiel have channelers as well. In fact, after Tarmon Gaiden they could very well encourage male channelers among themselves as well, unlike the Seanchen who will likely kill off any male channelers found amongst them because they don't have any adam to control them.

 

Honestly, I feel the Seanchen will make a deal with Rand and the Westlands. In return for aid given against the dark one, the Westlands will allow the Seanchen to maintain a small presence there. The majority of the Seancan will be back home across the sea, while a token presence will remain in the Westlands. Furthermore, Rand may even convince them to stop treating channelers like animals and treat them like human beings.

 

And who will train them? The Aiel male channellers I mean.

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Well, most likely someone from the Black Tower. The Aiel are completely loyal to the Dragon Reborn, and will fight with him on Tarmon Gaidon as will the loyal Asha'man. This will undoubtedly generate camraderie between them, so when the Aiel start discovering channelers amongst them, they will likely make an arrangement to the Tower to train them.

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Well, most likely someone from the Black Tower. The Aiel are completely loyal to the Dragon Reborn, and will fight with him on Tarmon Gaidon as will the loyal Asha'man. This will undoubtedly generate camraderie between them, so when the Aiel start discovering channelers amongst them, they will likely make an arrangement to the Tower to train them.

 

The Ashaman would be giving up their monopoly on saidin, which is very valuable. I expect they'd rather the Aiel come to the BT and become Ashaman. And really what choice would the Aiel sparkers have? If they don't go they're very likely to die. And even if they don't die, their training will very incomplete, since they'll have to learn everything themselves.

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The Aiel mistake was bringing in the soft wetlanders into the battle. They were easily conquered, they reaped many damane = end of the Aiel, far too many channelers to fight against. Think of Europe and the easy time Hitler had with all the countries except the UK.
Russia gave him problems as well.

 

Yes, Russia did.

 

Hitler made the same mistake Napoleon did.

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The only thing that gives the Seanchan advantage when all the countries join is that they will be able to get their hands on the dragon plans. As they have more soldiers and lots and lots of resources(entire continent) they can make a lightload of them. That could be advantageous. Plus I can totally see the AS getting conquered easily. Which is strange since in the vision they were the last to fall.

 

Anyway about the vision changing just because of Rand...I don't agree. I belive that it would have changed only because of itself{ a vision like that could change only if the future changed; the future could only be changed by something from the future(the vision) but Avienda did nothing after the vision that could affect Rand in any way/I'm assuming she wouldn't do anything like that if she didn't see it either/}. So if she goes back and if a vision like that appears it will be totally different. But not because of something Rand did. Because she sow the last vision and intends to do something to change things. The third vision would be different from the second because of THE SECOND and so on...I don't know where I'm going with this.

 

My theory is that she is going to crash the Rand/Fortuona meeting Portal style and tweak the Dragon's Peace a little bit so it includes the release of a bunch of WOs. In exchange she doesn't stab them both too hard. All the while the Seanchan will get their mainland back. The Empress may she live forever will start channeling. Mat and her excellency will squash a few lordlings trying to kill her and channeling will become legal(I'm guessing in the vision they died around that time because one of the damane WOs sided with the enemy realised how to deal with Mat...or something). Then they discover lots of stuff and live happily until channeling disappears and Bush gets elected...TWICE...and channeling appears and Lanfear goes all bitchy and the circle goes round and round.

 

I am deeply sorry for this wall of text. I get carried away sometimes. :unsure:

Edited by BananaOnDrugs

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Really, the Seanchean victory is almost guaranteed.I think Aviendha's vision was just a way to show it to us.

In Lord of Chaos, chapter 18, Rand and Min go to see Herid Fel, the philospoher. He has been asking him about cleansing saidin, and how to seal the Bore. Herid then talks abouut the Age Lace, and says that when the bore was first drilled, it was whole. Now, in the third age, it is sealed. He doesn't know if the Bore will be sealed by Rand, but he does feel confident that when the Age of Legends comes back around, the Bore will be sealed completely, as if it never were. And he also says that enough time will have had to pass, "at least an Age", that no one remembers the Dark One at all. I think it's safe to assume that the Aes Sedai and Wise Ones aren't going to let that knowledge be forgotten anytime soon. Seems like the only candidate for setting the World down a path to forget the Dark One would be the Seanchan.

Also, when Tuon is traveling with Mat in Knife of Dreams, she often ridicules his experiences with the snakes and Trollocs and gholam as mere superstition.

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It's going to take a lot of time.  few hundred years and what happened at the last battle will be exagarated, 500 years maybe no one even talks about it anymore.  The few who try to remind folks may be riducled a lunatics. 

 

As for the Seanchean victory, it's going to take a long time for them to retake their homeland.  Not to mention before the dragon pact the nations came at them one or two at a time.  Now they fight a unified Randland/Aiel group.  Who knows what the technology will be like then.  With the schools, technology in Randland is going to change pretty fast.  Will Mat help them, I can't see Mat leading the Seanchean against Randland.  After all one of his sisters left to be a Aes Sedai. Trolloc have been wiped out of Seanchean for a long time.  According to the BWB the exotic animals were brought back to Seanchean during the first thousand years of the breaking.  Now they will also face a unified Black/White tower.  By the time Luthair had arrived the shadowspawn had been gone for a long time.  So its only sensible Tuon would think most stories about Trollocs and such would be wise tales, not to mention even the Aes Sedai have no record of Gholam.  This sort of brings me to the numbers for the Seanchean in Randland got a bit out of hand, even if many of their troops were local forces.  An army of 100,000 was basically unheard  of and the Seanchean had at least 3.  Look at how many troops mat slaughtered in his Tuon deception.  Always felt the Seahchean were made out to be a bit too powerful.

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Until TG cut everything short they were still advancing and were going to attack the tower again with traveling but for some reason it didn't happen. There are Ages between the fourth and AOL and for centuries TG will be living memory because of channeling. No the DO has plenty of time to be forgotten without a Seachan Victory

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