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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Andhaira

Why the heck did Rand destroy the Choden Kal?

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It is the too powerful for any one to wield without being corrupted by the lust for it's power. As others have mentioned, it will not be an act of the One Power directly that will stop the Dark One. And anyone acting with it's power my well destroy everything trying to destroy the DO.

It was only used twice to great effect, and neither time has Rand felt a 'lust for power'. True, he debated with himself whether he could be trusted with it, but that was after his failings with Callandor (combined with the fact that he thought he was going crazy). And he wasn't 'lustful' at Dragonmount, he just intended to destroy everything.

 

But who says it needed to be used to defeat the DO himself?

Rand could be lounging on his throne somewhere, then casually open a gateway to his side and launch a wall of flame the length of the bloody horizon away over the countryside of the Blight.

Sure, a ridiculous scenario for the Lightsiders (Shai'tan forbid they do anything other than bicker amongst themselves), but the CK were a game-breaking pair the minute Mr. Jordan introduced them.

 

A reasonably strong Aes Sedai, a swordsman and a bunch of backwater farmers trek through the Blight unscathed, yet the Dragon himself armed with the most powerful weapon in the world can't think of anything creative to unleash up there? Surely that forge that creates weapons using peoples bloody souls is worth looking into. Fool Rand, he should've given the thing to Mat to play with :laugh:

 

 

 

the kal was a game breaker. Any ashaman or logain could take the kal and wipe out all the trollocs on the blight in a blink while rand does his thing on shayol ghul.

 

 

 

But like i said, where's the fun in that. No dreadlords, fades or trollocs bashing means boring shit. That's why team jordan got rid of the kal and introduced a stupid reason like 'it was tooooooooo dangerous to be used' Not dangerous enough to cleanse saidin eh?

 

Or any Ashaman, or Logain could decide he can own everything and everyone with the CK, and doom the entire world.

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Has is been brought up that even in the War of Power, the Choden Kal were meant to be a last-ditch _temporary_ solution to "cage the dark one behind a wall of power" until a more perminate solution could be found.

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Has is been brought up that even in the War of Power, the Choden Kal were meant to be a last-ditch _temporary_ solution to "cage the dark one behind a wall of power" until a more perminate solution could be found.

 

Yes, and even back then, LTT said they were too dangerous, and should never have been made.

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Has is been brought up that even in the War of Power, the Choden Kal were meant to be a last-ditch _temporary_ solution to "cage the dark one behind a wall of power" until a more perminate solution could be found.

 

Yes, and even back then, LTT said they were too dangerous, and should never have been made.

 

 

The same LTT who badly miscalulated with his plan and wanted the women to join him too!

 

The kal was the only solution at the time.

 

It would have allowed the AS to beat back sammael and demandreds forces. Regain lost territories and temporarily close off shayol ghul completely while a true solution could planned to seal the bore for good without LTT's crazy idea.

 

 

More importantly without the kal men would be tearing the world forever in their crazed fashion. Dragon reborn included

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Has is been brought up that even in the War of Power, the Choden Kal were meant to be a last-ditch _temporary_ solution to "cage the dark one behind a wall of power" until a more perminate solution could be found.

 

Yes, and even back then, LTT said they were too dangerous, and should never have been made.

 

 

The same LTT who badly miscalulated with his plan and wanted the women to join him too!

 

The kal was the only solution at the time.

 

It would have allowed the AS to beat back sammael and demandreds forces. Regain lost territories and temporarily close off shayol ghul completely while a true solution could planned to seal the bore for good without LTT's crazy idea.

 

 

More importantly without the kal men would be tearing the world forever in their crazed fashion. Dragon reborn included

 

The Choedan Kal were one of two solutions, and as LTT's did not work perfectly, we shouldn't assume that the Choedan Kal would have.

 

If LTT's idea was so crazy then the Aes Sedai wouldn't have been divided on it. It was a risky, and people were scared of that risk.

 

And I highly doubt the Choedan Kal would have used as you suggest. They're far too powerful for that. In fact the Shadow nearly got their hands on them, and that would have been an even greater disaster than the taint. Which is why Rand destroyed them.

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The Taint would have run out eventually, barring destruction of the world and additional "taint" being added. It may have taken quite a few turnings, though.

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Has is been brought up that even in the War of Power, the Choden Kal were meant to be a last-ditch _temporary_ solution to "cage the dark one behind a wall of power" until a more perminate solution could be found.

 

Yes, and even back then, LTT said they were too dangerous, and should never have been made.

 

 

The same LTT who badly miscalulated with his plan and wanted the women to join him too!

 

The kal was the only solution at the time.

 

It would have allowed the AS to beat back sammael and demandreds forces. Regain lost territories and temporarily close off shayol ghul completely while a true solution could planned to seal the bore for good without LTT's crazy idea.

 

 

More importantly without the kal men would be tearing the world forever in their crazed fashion. Dragon reborn included

 

I agree that they would have made a measurable difference in the war, and might have helped the Light win and stave off disaster. LTT thought them too powerful (do we know if they were ever tested/used in the AoL) {ie, did anyone know how powerful the actually were?}.

 

 

If I may thread-jack a bit, I am intreiged by the idea that the flaw in callandor was accidental, not intentional. Doesn't that change how important it will be?

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I am not familiar with with and WoT thories, or even this entire conversation.

But to me, that scene was a pretty explicit confirmation of theory, and a major plot point. The Wheel of Time is all about how time is a wheel. it is ever turning but eventually ends up back how it was (after legend and myth have faded from memory). We know of one major player on this wheel, with access to tremendous power, The Dragon. And we know of one current mysterious dark demented force with tremendous power and with a madness set on destroying the wheel and ending the always repeating nature of this world (by utterly destroying it). The dragon is simply the only character we know of is powerful enough, and that scene showed us his wish to destroy the world to end the turning of the wheel. If Rand had won the last battle, he would of went mad and replaced the last Dark One, with the power of the Choden Kal. With his destruction of this talisman, I think we are supposed to believe that he has changed fate. The wheel will continue to turn, but just possibly without a DO (after the last battle).

But this scene is exactly how far I am in the series. I think the last book has already been released, so that might explain it better.

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Weren't the CK Letra's plan but they were lost and that's LTT tried it his way. This is way sakarnan was invented for the last book, because there was only one brief mention by Lanfear.

As for mass production, we know there were at least two female access keys because Egwene tries to use a broken one I believe

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it was a plot device to weaken the light side of course.

how do you(the writer) write hundreds of pages of battle when the most powerful

sa'angreal ever created is in the hand of the most powerful channeler in the world?

simple,you destroy it.

just imagine rand fighting the shadow spawn army at shienar with the choedan kal 

instead of the small fat man angreal.

Edited by jack of shadows

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^Exactly. 

 

Rand would have easily destroyed all the Dark Side with the Choden Khal. Even Demandred with his little sa'angreal would have been an utter insect.

 

It would be just Rand vs. Shai'tan, book length 100 pages, thus so boring. 

 

Were you not entertained? I was, at least with Demandred vs. the blademasters. 

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In the end the Choden Kal wouldn't of mattered, Rand wouldn't of been able to use it againt the DO in the last fight.  What was he going to do trust Logain wth it?   It  served its purpose to help cleanse the mail half.

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My theory when reading it was that it absorbed the taint during the cleansing making it unsafe to use. Additionally when Rand destroyed it pushing all of the power out created the light shield around his mind that was blocking the thorned compulsion that Nynaeve had discovered and healed on one of the asha'man. 

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we know there were at least two female access keys because Egwene tries to use a broken one I believe

I do not recall Egwene trying to use an access key.  nor any character finding additional access keys.

as far as I recall, Egwene used only 1 sa'angreal; the name started with "Vora's".

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@rhuidean,

shadar logoth/mashadar absorbed the taint not the choedan kal,

rand used the sa'angreal later to destroy natrin's barrow and it worked just fine.

 

True on both counts but I didn't mean it was defective just that it still created the effects of the taint. After he destroyed it he wasn't getting dizzy while drawing the source thus my comments on the shield protecting him. 

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It would be just Rand vs. Shai'tan, book length 100 pages, thus so boring. 

 

Were you not entertained? I was, at least with Demandred vs. the blademasters. 

not sure of the book would have been 100 pages if Rand used the Choedan Kal; some more post-TG scenes might have been added.  though I would guess that most readers would not consider a 100-page book boring.

 

about Demandred's duels; at least Gawyn & Galad were blademasters.  Not sure about Logain or Lan.  Logain only channeled.  do not recall Lan earning a heron-marked sword during any point in the series or in the prequel.

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I don't believe Lan had a heron mark because the sword of Malkier was a regular power-wrought sword. He may have not officially been a blademaster but learning to sword from infancy would tend to make one a blademaster

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Going to have to do a reread of the first couple of books, maybe it was a POV from Rand where he assumed Lan's blade had a Heron mark like the sword he had from Tam.

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sabio,

you'll have to reread eye of the world chapter 8,there is a conversation

between lan and rand about his(rand) heron marked sword,if i recall correctly,

lan's sword doesn't have the heron mark.

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Lan tells Rand about the power-wrought heron blades and a plain soldier's sword that became something else. The sword of Malkeri kings doesn't have a heron-mark but Lan is a blademaster. He has an unbreakable sword, and a destiny

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Many have spoken of imagining Rand wiping out the shadows armies at Tarwin's Gap with the CK...... Now imagine Demandred with the CK at the Last Battle or Taim with it. That is a far more serious situation. The Shadow would have claimed that sa angreal at some point had Rand not destroyed it. It was bad enough when the Shadow got hold of the seals. It would have been fun to read, but it would have turned Rand into Thanos with the Infinty Gaunlet.

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the Shadow would probably have needed to confront Rand and/or his followers before getting the Choedan Kal.

only time without confrontation would have been when they gotten the male adam.

if they gotten the Choedan Kal then, I imagine Rand would have been able to retrieve it; the Dragonmount Viewing seems to be an indicator of that.

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