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Siuan's deposition and the warder bond


LazyMonk
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In Siuan's deposition, she's shocked to find her warder, Alric, dead outside her study. How could She NOT feel her bonded warder being stabbed and dieing right outside her door?!?

(Although you might argue that the metaphorical stab in the back by her fellow sisters was sharp enough to mask her warder for a moment :biggrin:)

 

Also, if memory serves, only sisters were involved in that scene. Alric's death is flat out murder. Meaning that the culprit was a sister and has to be Black.

 

Thoughts?

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In Siuan's deposition, she's shocked to find her warder, Alric, dead outside her study. How could She NOT feel her bonded warder being stabbed and dieing right outside her door?!?

(Although you might argue that the metaphorical stab in the back by her fellow sisters was sharp enough to mask her warder for a moment :biggrin:)

 

Also, if memory serves, only sisters were involved in that scene. Alric's death is flat out murder. Meaning that the culprit was a sister and has to be Black.

 

Thoughts?

#1 if they used a knife they could bypass any oaths about the Power, thus not concrete evidence

#2 I believe they killed him and immediately entered/shielded Siuan, so I think she instantly went into shock

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Any AS can kill anybody so long as she doesn't use the OP to do it.

Sisters can even use the power to restrain somebody and kill them normally without using the OP.

As it happens, several black sisters were present and somebody who wasn't AS at all (spoiler alert).

There is a time slip which has been debated though. Yes SS should have felt Alric being killed.

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RJ's blog 5 October 2005 "YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS"

 

For Roland Arien, a lot of people have asked questions about Alric’s death. I should have made matters plainer. As I envisioned it, Alric, having sensed Siuan’s extreme shock, came running to her and arrived just in time to be stabbed just before Siuan was taken into the anteroom. She should have sensed the knife going in, but that was masked by her shock. When she sees him lying there, he is dying, though not yet dead. As I said, I should have made it plainer.

Edited by Terez
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I don't know for sure how this bond between AS and Warders works, but I thought he was killed after she was shielded, and she has to have her connection to the OP to feel the bond/share pain or feelings.

After she is stilled, she doesn't think about it much, but she did had a lot of things on her mind.

But, after Nynaeve heals her stilling, she cries one night thinking about him. So maybe after she could feel/touch the OP again, she could feel the bond(or loss of it) more clearly.

Edited by Aiel Blademaster
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Hey! Uhm... nevermind, too tired to think of a fitting joke right now. :laugh:

 

I don't know for sure how this bond between AS and Warders works, but I thought he was killed after she was shielded, and she has to have her connection to the OP to feel the bond/share pain or feelings.

 

When reading it, I get the impression that he's killed when they're on their way in. But the shielding would indeed be the best explanation here, since the bond is connected to the Power which we notice when she is Healed. But I agree with RJ when he admitted that part could have been handled better.

 

After she is stilled, she doesn't think about it much, but she did had a lot of things on her mind.

But, after Nynaeve heals her stilling, she cries one night thinking about him. So maybe after she could feel/touch the OP again, she could feel the bond(or loss of it) more clearly.

Yep, right after she is Healed (I just read that part), she walks up to Gareth Bryne to shake him up with the Power and she suddenly finds herself crying and in (emotional) pain. And she instantly realizes that it is the warder bond.

Edited by Alric
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So, I have another question: Does stilling destroy the Warder bond? If it does, why does it come back when Healed? And if it doesn't, why? It seems to me that the Warder bond, like the oaths, is directly linked to one's channelling ability, and therefore should disappear upon stilling. But then, maybe that premise is wrong, since Min was able to bond Rand as a Warder even though she can't channel.

 

(Was she able to bond him because he can channel? and how does that work anyway? But this is starting to become too many questions ;p)

Edited by Rose
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So, I have another question: Does stilling destroy the Warder bond? If it does, why does it come back when Healed? And if it doesn't, why? It seems to me that the Warder bond, like the oaths, is directly linked to one's channelling ability, and therefore should disappear upon stilling. But then, maybe that premise is wrong, since Min was able to bond Rand as a Warder even though she can't channel.

 

(Was she able to bond him because he can channel? and how does that work anyway? But this is starting to become too many questions ;p)

 

 

From what I saw in Siuan, it just 'seals' it, until she's healed, when it will resurface.

 

About Min, I always had some problems with that bonding. Is not quite right, from my point of view. It's more Aiel style, and they don't consider the bond between near-sisters like the one between AS and Warder.

I was thinking that Elayne and Aviendha can bond Rand, and Rand can bond Min, as in making her his unofficial warden. It's strange to consider him her warder, since she can't actually channel. But it was done, it seems to work, so let bygones be bygones.

Edited by Aiel Blademaster
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RJ's blog 5 October 2005 "YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS"

 

For Roland Arien, a lot of people have asked questions about Alric’s death. I should have made matters plainer. As I envisioned it, Alric, having sensed Siuan’s extreme shock, came running to her and arrived just in time to be stabbed just before Siuan was taken into the anteroom. She should have sensed the knife going in, but that was masked by her shock. When she sees him lying there, he is dying, though not yet dead. As I said, I should have made it plainer.

 

Wow, I just encountered that scene again last week (through audiobook) and it's not how I pictured it at all. Goes to show a lot can be lost in translation, I wonder what else RJ envisioned completely differently...

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My thought is you dont have to be able to channel to have a warder bond, just you have to have someone able to channel to make the bond int he first place, if you are cut off then you still have the bond I think. Btw Elayne didn't just use the sister bond, she found the sister bond is used by channelers to link any 2 people together, so she found that a bond can be made between people from a 3rd party, and used that and the warder bond together to make min and rand bonded. Of course she tweaked it so its not a sister bond being done, but a warder bond instead.

Edited by rand4747
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RJ's blog 5 October 2005 "YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS"For Roland Arien, a lot of people have asked questions about Alric’s death. I should have made matters plainer. As I envisioned it, Alric, having sensed Siuan’s extreme shock, came running to her and arrived just in time to be stabbed just before Siuan was taken into the anteroom. She should have sensed the knife going in, but that was masked by her shock. When she sees him lying there, he is dying, though not yet dead. As I said, I should have made it plainer.

Good to know... that's actually quite near to what I thought of - half jokingly.

 

 

Wasnt it elayne who wove the eaves when min bonded rand? if someone stills elayne, does that break min's bond to rand?
Possibly, but I don't think we have to worry about that anymore, considering Stilling has been healed, so Severing is pointless.

I would hardly disregard Severing: It renders the channeler helpless for a long time. It's described as the most painful experience imaginable. It's likely to kill those bonded to the channeler.

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Wasnt it elayne who wove the eaves when min bonded rand? if someone stills elayne, does that break min's bond to rand?

I think a bigger problem would be if someone were to kill one of the Harem( or Alanna for that matter) what would happen to Rand? Would he go bonkers or just run to the other girls for "comforting"?

 

 

I don't think they could help much.

If he's sad, part of that will seep through the bond, so they'll be sad as well.

Since Brigitte is linked with Elayne(if she's not the dead one), she'll feel that as well. Why do they have to torture poor Brigitte?

Hmmm, a small question. Since there is a Brigitte-Elayne-Rand connection, does she feel part of Rand's pain?

When the trio first made the connection, they were shocked of the amount of pain he endures, so, even if they mask some of it, the girls should still feel some pain.

And technically Brigitte should feel part of that pain, even if to a smaller degree, right?

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I was just getting at the part of saving a Warder that lost his AS was to "put him in the arms of a woman". He seems to have plenty of them already.

 

Love the part about not torturing Birgitte. I agree the poor woman has suffered enough, mostly through Elayne's actions. All that sympathetic pain is rebounding around in my head....Arrgghhh!!

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I don't think Birgitte would feel Rand's pain. She only feels what Elayne feels, and Elayne only feels Rand's pain indirectly, so I don't think Birgitte would feel it in turn. Otherwise, every time a Green's warder gets injured, all the others would be weakened too. But Birgitte would probably feel Elayne's sadness or concern as a result of her feeling Rand's pain. Just not the pain itself.

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