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Egwene's Opinion of Mat


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Does Egwene still think he has his command and army solely because he's Rand's friend? She was there at the Battle of Cairhien but I think she considers his defeat of Couladin and his guard detachment as a fluke. Gareth Byrne and Talmanes have conveyed to her the impression that the Band is indeed a top notch professional force but I got the idea that she still regards them as mere Dragonsworn. She has "Dreams" about him but I don't think she understands the significance of the role he will play and his transformation of warfare.

Edited by Cuendillar-88!
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Does Egwene still think he has his command and army solely because he's Rand's friend? She was there at the Battle of Cairhien but I think she considers his defeat of Couladin and his guard detachment as a fluke. Gareth Byrne and Talmanes have conveyed to her the impression that the Band is indeed a top notch professional force but I got the idea that she still regards them as mere Dragonsworn. She has "Dreams" about him but I don't think she understands the significance of the role he will play and his transformation of warfare.

Egwene never sees Mat 'in action'. She hardly ever see him at all. When she does, he's drinking and either chasing maids or gambling and always unkempt and foul mouthed.

All evidence to the contrary, for her, are second-hand and questionable. Bryne is no testimony - he never saw Mat in person.

Combine all that with her long acquaintance with him as a youth... her opinion is justified.

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I don't think him being the Prince of Ravens/Emperor of Seachan will bring him any points with her.

But eventually(very soon) she'll have to change her opinion regarding Mat. His battle tactics and his memories from the Trolloc Wars will prove invaluable in the future battles. Even Ituralde with his newly acquired first hand experience will came a close second.

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The "second-hand reports" she has of him are from people who have proven trustworthy. If Byrne, Talmanes and the Aiel respect Mat's abilities, she probably ought to at least consider the possibility that there is something there.

 

Also, she was present (to take part in the "softening up") when Rand mentioned the engagements against the Andorans.

 

I don't see this as a result of her misandry or arrogance, though. I see it as a result of her somewhat judgmental moral code. Which doesn't bother me, actually. It seems perfectly appropriate for a Two Rivers innkeeper's daughter. In fact, I might go so far as to say that the fact that Egwene hasn't abandoned her provincial outlook is point in her favor, when she seems (to me) to have been excessively "flexible" in her loyalties generally.

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I'd say her opinion of him is more or less justified. That doesn't make it any less annoying however. I find it quite irritating that people consistently look down on Mat. Of course, that means that the moment when he proves them wrong is all the more satisfying.

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Maybe Mat bringing Moraine back from the Finns will make her look at him in a new way?

 

Perhaps, that might be the thing that causes Egwene to reconsider. If Moiraine relays a glowing report of Mat's bravery and cunning in the rescue/escape from Finnland it just might make an impression upon the Amyrlin. She herself knows that if anyone was capable of rattling Moiraine's inner calmness it was Mat Cauthon's vexing grin and defiant manner. Egwene holds Moiraine in high esteem, especially since Moiraine distracted Lanfear while she was in the process of killing Aviendha and Egwene. Also, Elayne's favorable report might help sway Egwene, she knows the Queen of Andor is besodden with Rand but as far as she knows Elayne still regards Mat as an ill cultured, country bumpkin.

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Egwene's the only one who has never thanked Mat for rescuing her from Tear or mentally acknowledged his sheer guts in even trying.

 

We do know however that she cares about him a great deal and worries about how he is doing.

 

tPoD "Stronger than Written Law"

Recently all her dreams about Mat were pale and full of pain, like shadows cast by nightmares, almost as though Mat himself were not quite real. That made her afraid for him, left behind in Ebou Dar, and gave her agonies of grief for sending him there, not to mention poor old Thom Merrilin.

 

In addition she has had inner thoughts on the strength of his character such as in the Salidar scene when he acknowledged her as Amrylin.

 

Everyone will come around fairly quick when they see him in action during TG, it will be epic to have his warfare innovations that we first saw towards the end of KoD used on a larger scale.

Edited by Suttree
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Maybe Mat bringing Moraine back from the Finns will make her look at him in a new way?

 

Perhaps, that might be the thing that causes Egwene to reconsider. If Moiraine relays a glowing report of Mat's bravery and cunning in the rescue/escape from Finnland it just might make an impression upon the Amyrlin. She herself knows that if anyone was capable of rattling Moiraine's inner calmness it was Mat Cauthon's vexing grin and defiant manner. Egwene holds Moiraine in high esteem, especially since Moiraine distracted Lanfear while she was in the process of killing Aviendha and Egwene. Also, Elayne's favorable report might help sway Egwene, she knows the Queen of Andor is besodden with Rand but as far as she knows Elayne still regards Mat as an ill cultured, country bumpkin.

Moraine's report would sway Egwene toward Mat, but she was unconcious during the entire thing. Her report would be second hand from Thom.

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What she thinks of him matters not one bit once he shows up for the horn and is named commander of the combined armies at this nations meet at the end of TofM. Oh I Know it hasnt happended yet, but Tuon knows what kind of commander he is.... Rand WILL bring the seanchan in, Matt will be the commander of that army, along with what elayne/rand/everyone else know about him, it seems inevitable.

 

I really REALLY REALLY REALLY HOOOOOOOOOPE tha Matt will be the one to finally tell Edgwene to just shut up and get the hell out of the way. Rand should have done it last book, but Brandon didnt let him, it has to be done, hopefully its Matt.

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I really REALLY REALLY REALLY HOOOOOOOOOPE tha Matt will be the one to finally tell Edgwene to just shut up and get the hell out of the way. Rand should have done it last book, but Brandon didnt let him, it has to be done, hopefully its Matt.

 

It would be nice, since she's always doing the same thing to others. Like the thing with Nynaeve. Yeah, she needed to be brought down a notch but Egwene... I don't know. She got a little carried away with it, and that was partially to cover her own misbehavior. It would be perfect for Mat to correct her for once, especially since she pretty much sees him as some idiot who has few uses.

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i think she will get it when he saves her precious tower. i think mat plans to 1. go gather the band 2 go get the horn at the tower, no he doesnt know exactly where it is but his luck will get him to it, knowing his luck the gateway will open in the exact room its in lol 3 meet up with rand. hes gonna go to caemlyn see whats going on, rush to the tower for the horn so he can use the heroes to save andor and low and behold he runs into his wife about to take the tower (and his little sister bode). he will either convince tuon to travel back to andor with him and fight the trollocs or maybe blow the horn to fight against her and save the tower. or just taveren the hell out of her (thats what he likes to call it in his head). i know this doesnt gel with egwenes dream of seanchan helping her but it could work out that way somehow....the one who has hated aes sedai the most and has tried his hardest to stay clear of them will end up saving them. im thinking he doesnt even make it to the field and the reunion.

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i take that back he will make it there...after everything i just said...he'll walk up..."ok listen here, i just saved andor and the towers ass and the seanchan are well in hand, AND i lost an eye, sure you lost a hand rand but i gave up my eye for her...remember her?? you can win now....oh btw i AM leading this battle so you can all just get in line behind me and my 2nd in command, Pips...ok ok ok perrin 2nd THEN pips".....is that horse still alive??

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Does Egwene still think he has his command and army solely because he's Rand's friend?

 

No she knows that there is much more to Mat. Her thoughts about sending him to Ebou Dar show that. Later, when the girls are in Ebou Dar, she does think about them having to use Mat, but she doesn't know that Nynaeve and Elayne ignore him. Later, she gets to talk to Talmanes.

 

I'm sure she dismisses his importance, however. Ta'veren and all that.

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Egwene and most of them in fact are all worry and everything and then when they come across Rand or Matt or whoever its jump down their throats for whatever they supposedly did wrong which might be saving their lives. Its mostly just stubbornness and a refusal to admit you need/needed help they all do it but Egwene I think is worse than many, She doesn't really have a bad opinion of Matt though. She just refuses to believe that he is anything more than her thought of what all men are like. That he cant think on his own sort of thing and the thinking with their hairs on their chest and all that sort of stuff. Basically her opinions are just because they are men, if Matt was a woman, or Rand was a woman it would be all very different. Even if they acted pretty much exactly the same way. Like If Mat was a woman and he saved them in Tear they would be all really grateful and thanking and everything that he/she saved their lives.

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Egwene already has reconsidered, at least to a degree, her opinion that Mat only got to be a general because he was Rand's BFF:

 

ACOS, Ch. 12

 

Mat had a reputation as a soldier? Crows swimming did not come close. She had believed he commanded only because of Rand, and that had been hard enough to swallow. Believing because you think you know is dangerous, she reminded herself, eying Bryne.

 

She and elayne probably talked about Mat offscreen in ToM, and Elayne now considers Mat to be an expert on military matters, so there's a good chance she's told Egwene that.

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i think she will get it when he saves her precious tower. i think mat plans to 1. go gather the band 2 go get the horn at the tower, no he doesnt know exactly where it is but his luck will get him to it, knowing his luck the gateway will open in the exact room its in lol 3 meet up with rand. hes gonna go to caemlyn see whats going on, rush to the tower for the horn so he can use the heroes to save andor and low and behold he runs into his wife about to take the tower (and his little sister bode). he will either convince tuon to travel back to andor with him and fight the trollocs or maybe blow the horn to fight against her and save the tower. or just taveren the hell out of her (thats what he likes to call it in his head). i know this doesnt gel with egwenes dream of seanchan helping her but it could work out that way somehow....the one who has hated aes sedai the most and has tried his hardest to stay clear of them will end up saving them. im thinking he doesnt even make it to the field and the reunion.

The heroes won't fight for Matt unlsee Rand is there with the banner. They come to the call of the horn but they follow the Dragon.

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i think she will get it when he saves her precious tower. i think mat plans to 1. go gather the band 2 go get the horn at the tower, no he doesnt know exactly where it is but his luck will get him to it, knowing his luck the gateway will open in the exact room its in lol 3 meet up with rand. hes gonna go to caemlyn see whats going on, rush to the tower for the horn so he can use the heroes to save andor and low and behold he runs into his wife about to take the tower (and his little sister bode). he will either convince tuon to travel back to andor with him and fight the trollocs or maybe blow the horn to fight against her and save the tower. or just taveren the hell out of her (thats what he likes to call it in his head). i know this doesnt gel with egwenes dream of seanchan helping her but it could work out that way somehow....the one who has hated aes sedai the most and has tried his hardest to stay clear of them will end up saving them. im thinking he doesnt even make it to the field and the reunion.

The heroes won't fight for Matt unlsee Rand is there with the banner. They come to the call of the horn but they follow the Dragon.

 

We don't know if that's always the case or if that was just what that specific situation needed.

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i think she will get it when he saves her precious tower. i think mat plans to 1. go gather the band 2 go get the horn at the tower, no he doesnt know exactly where it is but his luck will get him to it, knowing his luck the gateway will open in the exact room its in lol 3 meet up with rand. hes gonna go to caemlyn see whats going on, rush to the tower for the horn so he can use the heroes to save andor and low and behold he runs into his wife about to take the tower (and his little sister bode). he will either convince tuon to travel back to andor with him and fight the trollocs or maybe blow the horn to fight against her and save the tower. or just taveren the hell out of her (thats what he likes to call it in his head). i know this doesnt gel with egwenes dream of seanchan helping her but it could work out that way somehow....the one who has hated aes sedai the most and has tried his hardest to stay clear of them will end up saving them. im thinking he doesnt even make it to the field and the reunion.

The heroes won't fight for Matt unlsee Rand is there with the banner. They come to the call of the horn but they follow the Dragon.

 

We don't know if that's always the case or if that was just what that specific situation needed.

It reads pretty clearly as the Heroes Follow the Dragon and the Banner.

The Great Hunt: Ch 47

"the Pattern weaves itself around our necks like halters," Arthur Hawkwing said. "You are here. The Banner is here. The weave of the moment is set. We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon."

At least to me. To each their own.

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i think she will get it when he saves her precious tower. i think mat plans to 1. go gather the band 2 go get the horn at the tower, no he doesnt know exactly where it is but his luck will get him to it, knowing his luck the gateway will open in the exact room its in lol 3 meet up with rand. hes gonna go to caemlyn see whats going on, rush to the tower for the horn so he can use the heroes to save andor and low and behold he runs into his wife about to take the tower (and his little sister bode). he will either convince tuon to travel back to andor with him and fight the trollocs or maybe blow the horn to fight against her and save the tower. or just taveren the hell out of her (thats what he likes to call it in his head). i know this doesnt gel with egwenes dream of seanchan helping her but it could work out that way somehow....the one who has hated aes sedai the most and has tried his hardest to stay clear of them will end up saving them. im thinking he doesnt even make it to the field and the reunion.

The heroes won't fight for Matt unlsee Rand is there with the banner. They come to the call of the horn but they follow the Dragon.

 

We don't know if that's always the case or if that was just what that specific situation needed.

It reads pretty clearly as the Heroes Follow the Dragon and the Banner.

The Great Hunt: Ch 47

"the Pattern weaves itself around our necks like halters," Arthur Hawkwing said. "You are here. The Banner is here. The weave of the moment is set. We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon."

At least to me. To each their own.

 

No, the bolded line and the fact that the Horn was around from before the Age of Legends -- and therefore before the "Champion of the Light" became known as the Dragon -- implies that it was a function of that particular moment.

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Egwene probably passes off favorable opinions of Matt the same way she does Rand, Taveren. I don't think Moiraine will do anything to change Egwene's mind. She will try but Egwene doesn't need her anymore. Before she needed Moraine's knowledge, now she knows she knows everything. Just because Mat and the Seanchan will most likely save the Tower from Shadowspawn is no reason to like him.

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i think she will get it when he saves her precious tower. i think mat plans to 1. go gather the band 2 go get the horn at the tower, no he doesnt know exactly where it is but his luck will get him to it, knowing his luck the gateway will open in the exact room its in lol 3 meet up with rand. hes gonna go to caemlyn see whats going on, rush to the tower for the horn so he can use the heroes to save andor and low and behold he runs into his wife about to take the tower (and his little sister bode). he will either convince tuon to travel back to andor with him and fight the trollocs or maybe blow the horn to fight against her and save the tower. or just taveren the hell out of her (thats what he likes to call it in his head). i know this doesnt gel with egwenes dream of seanchan helping her but it could work out that way somehow....the one who has hated aes sedai the most and has tried his hardest to stay clear of them will end up saving them. im thinking he doesnt even make it to the field and the reunion.

The heroes won't fight for Matt unlsee Rand is there with the banner. They come to the call of the horn but they follow the Dragon.

 

We don't know if that's always the case or if that was just what that specific situation needed.

It reads pretty clearly as the Heroes Follow the Dragon and the Banner.

The Great Hunt: Ch 47

"the Pattern weaves itself around our necks like halters," Arthur Hawkwing said. "You are here. The Banner is here. The weave of the moment is set. We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon."

At least to me. To each their own.

 

No, the bolded line and the fact that the Horn was around from before the Age of Legends -- and therefore before the "Champion of the Light" became known as the Dragon -- implies that it was a function of that particular moment.

 

 

I think they are wrong about the Horn.

I think it was made precisely for the Last Battle.

Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin I think the right translation for this part is: "Not even Moridin can withstand my power/call"

You know, the champion of the Dark, bla bla bla.

It sounds better than “The Grave is no bar to my call. Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation

Or maybe it doesn't sounds better, but it makes more sense.

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