Healing the stilled

[raydurz]

I saw a post discussing the healing of Suian and Leanne from being stilled and it not being complete and it seemed to infer that Nynaeve didn't heal them all the way (it was incomplete) for some reason, thus they were much weaker in power. But in the posted it stated that if they were stilled again, that they could be back up to full power if healed by an Ashaman. Is this becuase they are being healed by the opposite sex-hence the reason Logain was restored to full power when Nynaeve healed him?

[grump]

We need to remember that Flynn is with Rand, Suian and Le anne are in the rebel camp,and the White Tower and Anan is with Mat. Remember how it took 3 different people to bring Rand around after the second wound Flynn doing the most for him. I don't think Flynn will have any trouble bringing the 3 back to full strength. He just has to be where they are. We will see what happens then

[algspkr]

There are unanswered questions to all three. With Suian and Leanne we don't know if Flinn can correct what Nynaeve did. I picture it as being like a broken bone that was not set right when it healed, possibly Flinn can break it and set it correctly, possibly there is too much "scar tissue" to fix it correctly.

 

With Settelle, we are fairly certain that she was burned out. The discriptions of stilling and genteling are that the person can still sence the source but can no longer reach it. With being burned out the discription is that they can no longer sence the source. The discription for being burned out is from early in the series, so RJ may have still been working things out.

[Luckers]

It has been suggested, though, that the three women Rand stilled were not in fact stilled, but burned out. He crushed them in flows of spirit, rather then cutting them as in the description of stilling that we have from Nynaeve's fight with Moghedian. What Rand did sounds more complete then stilling, as complete as being burned out. The fact that those three could then be healed suggests a chance that so can being burned out in the manner of Martine Janata.

 

But algspkr says... it is as yet only conjecture on our part. There is no direct evidence of anything, and i doubt there will be until Satelle is in a position near Flinn or one of the other Asha'men with that knowledge. Or even just Nyanaeve.

[aznprince001]

i think nynave just duct taped the "severed line" .

 

Logain used Saidin, i read somewhere that saidin and saidar are alike and unalike. So + = -

[Luckers]

Nynaeve's opinion was substantiated by the descriptions of Suine and Leane.

[WarkWark]

Well besides the fact that Mogehedian told Nyv that male channelers were better at healing then females before they all went insane, I think it also says somewhere in the book, or implies that a male channeler would be able to heal Siuan/Leane more fully then Nyv could.

[KaptainKaos]

It's true a male channeler could have Healed them better than a female but that isn't because males are better Healers in general. If a male had tried to Heal Logain instead of Nynaeve Logain would have found his powers lacking just as Siuan and Leane did. It's simply because a male will Heal a female more completely than another female could and a female will Heal a man more completely than another man could.

[aznprince001]

it makes sense, because saidin and saidar are one and not one. You need both to touch the power in a way. Even if you are a woman you touch saidin because saidin and saidar is one.

[KaptainKaos]

Actually a woman doesn't touch saidin unless she is included in and controlling the flows in a circle with a man. Although some ter'angreal like the Bowl of the Winds may may use or emit saidin the Bowl is a remanant of the Age of Legends and presumably made by both men and woman so it doesn't really apply. Saidin and saidar can never be made as one they are opposing forces both turning the Wheel of Time and therefore cannot in any other terms than they are working for the same purpose (to turn the Wheel) be classified as one.

[SinisterDeath]

For Alys Kinch, the Healing of stilling must be done by the other gender to be fully effective. A woman Healing a woman or a man Healing a man results in less than full restoration. It all ties into that theme I keep harping on. Men and women have to work together to be their most effective. And while the weave used by Flinn for Healing is not exactly that used by Nynaeve, either would use the same weave on a man or a woman.

http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?p=26

 

That is why Nyneave didn't fully heal suiane, Leane. RJ said it himself. 100% confirmed

 

However, I still maintain that one of the reasons why they are much, much weaker then they once were, while in part being nyneave wasn't a 'male' using 'sadian' It may also have to deal with the fact that Nyneave only used 3 different types of threads, instead of all of them. So, lets say a female healing a female would get a power reducition of 50%, using an incomplete weave, a would result in another 50% decrease, or a total of 25% of there power. Which seems to be about where they are now..

 

As for why sadian makes a better connection for a women, then saidar.. It could be anything really. Most likely it has to deal with RJ = Creator = Its his rule.

Then again, it could be like this.

Saidar is a strong force, You can not push against it or it will eat you up. Instead you must go along with it.

Sadian is an equally powerfull force, however you must fight it every minute, if you do it will overwelm you.

So here you have one force you have to constantly fight, another you have to submit.

Now lets think of the 'cord' that connects a channeler to the one power. Saidar goes through that 'cord' into the channeler. *the cord is just a figment of our imagination to describe it*

Now the cord its self, has to be able to control this flow. And down the 'female' cord you have a strong force that you have to go with it, or it'll destroy you. Down the Male cord, you have to fight it.

So in a way, it would make sense that the cord for the female, would have to act like sadian, and the cord for males, would have to act like that of the females. Patching the cut in the 'cord' with the same force, allows it to leak out... *sorta*.

 

It be like saying Saidar is a River, would you want to guide or hold the water with a concrete dam, or would you want to hold it in a balloon?

In this case, the women need concrete, and men need a balloon.

 

(But then, saidar/sadian has somewhat always been described in a somewhat 'sexual' way. So what RJ's telling us is that men and women need to work together, and saidar/sadian are the same way.

[Alia]

I always thought of it as yin equals yang. You need both to complete a full circle. Hence why Logain is back to full power and why the women arent.

 

Plus, it makes literary sense- if Siuan and Leane had been up to full power, the other sisters would have kept more track of them. And Logain needed to be powerful enough to rival Taim in the Black Tower. So, I think it may be both RJ making the rules but also having reasons for it.

[Luckers]

Actually a woman doesn't touch saidin unless she is included in and controlling the flows in a circle with a man.

 

I have this theory that the True Source is something like a sea. Sadin is the wil, storm tossed waves at the top, and saidar is the deeper, yet mor powerful currents underneath. I believe that whilst women do not touch saidin, they do have to reach through it to touch saidar, and that is why men feel a tingle when women channel... it is the displacement of saidin around her as she draws saidar up through it. It is also, i suspect, why men are in general stronger. Women have to reach much much deeper to attain the same amount.

 

It's a theory that has absolutely no backing of course, but it fits with what we know.