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Rand's channeling sickness


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Since it wasn't really resolved in TOM (no Rand POVs), I'm going to assume that he still has the channeling sickness.

 

I have seen a few theories to explain it. The most common is that of it being caused by his link to Moridin when he and Rand crossed balefire. However, upon careful reading of ACOS, I don't think that is the cause.

 

Flinn explains to Samitsu when he heals rand from the Shadar Logoth wound that Samitsu says will kill him, despite anything that she does.

Blades - pg 737 of ACOS

Not much. I couldn't really touch what's wrong. I sort of sealed them away from him, for a time , anyhow. It won't last.

 

Later when Rand wakes up he siezes Saidin for the first time:

A Crown of Swords - pg 831

Something crooked and red spiderwebbed across the outside of the Void

 

Also later when Rand is in Shadar Logoth trying to kill Sammael, but before he even meets Moridin:

A Crown of Swords - pg 841

The Void itself pulsated around him, the Dark one's taint on Saidin beating in time with the knife slash across his ribs.

 

And also pg 842:

Inside Rand, the taint on Saidin beat harder; the distant fire in his side flickered like ten thousand lightnings one on top of the last. Even the ground seemed to pound beneath his boots.

 

Since each and everyone of these instances of the void being affected occur before the balefire streams cross, it is at least indicative that his channeling sickness could actually be caused by the wound from Fain's Dagger, and not the balefire stream crossing.

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I have the impression it's over. I think we have seen him seizing Saidin. And Min mentioned nothing. Don't forget it was getting worse. He even had to vomit in Ebou Dar. And he isn't hiding his emotions now anymore.

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It was already before Shadar Logoth. He felt it for the first time in TGS. Most people think he gains access by the connection with Moridin. So even if he directly got access, it wouldn't fit. And the Dark One wouldn't give him access. You could say the Dark One did as punishment for Semirhage, but Rand still has access:

 

(I hope it is the exact quote. I'm too lazy to look it up).

 

"A month ago, I would have returned those slaps with balefire," Rand said.

"Within the guardian?" Cadsuane asked.

"The guardian blocks the One Power. The One Power only." Rand said.

 

And then something about Cadsuane trying to understand what he means.

Edited by Leyrann
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It was already before Shadar Logoth. He felt it for the first time in TGS. Most people think he gains access by the connection with Moridin. So even if he directly got access, it wouldn't fit. And the Dark One wouldn't give him access. You could say the Dark One did as punishment for Semirhage, but Rand still has access:

 

(I hope it is the exact quote. I'm too lazy to look it up).

 

"A month ago, I would have returned those slaps with balefire," Rand said.

"Within the guardian?" Cadsuane asked.

"The guardian blocks the One Power. The One Power only." Rand said.

 

And then something about Cadsuane trying to understand what he means.

 

I still don't get that quote, how does Rand know he still has access? How does he even know what it was? LTT I suppose may have heard of it but never learned to use it. And he's talking about before zen rand, so he didn't have full LTT yet. It makes no sense that quote is about the TP.

 

I propose two things:

 

1. He was just barking. Rand suggested to Cads he could stop his heart by willpower alone, which was clearly a bluff Cads would not call. Some people took this as fact, but then why would Rand ever need to channel at all? The statement to the BLers could be similar. Also, Rand walking into the WT unconcerned is another display of arrogance to promote his self confidence and people's opinion that he's untouchable.

 

2. He was suggesting that the guardian stops the weaving but not the effect. Recall that the previous "meeting" he raised up the choden kal from outside the guardian's influence to destroy the BLers before Nynaeve stopped him. Well, that obviously suggests he was going to weave something INTO the guardian's area, not use the TP. So slap rand, he gates back a ways outside the guardian then WHAMO balefires into the area from outside. Of course it was worded to make it seem cooler, cause he likes to keep people on their toes.

 

On topic... I used to just assume Rand's sickness was just related to the ammount of taint he had in his head, and channeling through it all the time just made him more and more physically ill, and that VoG gold stuff protected him.

 

However, I just recently signed up to "he's had taint protection since tEotW" theory so now I don't know what to think. Psychosomatic maybe? I do believe it has ended, and given EotW taint inoculation theory the only thing he gains in VoG is knowledge... so there's a wrench in my gears ;)

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See Lucker's analysis on why the Rand/Moridin link causes the channeling sickness (towards end of theory). Pretty conclusive to me.

 

Lucker's Rand/Moridin link theory

 

 

Yes, I have read the theory, but I am proposing that he is wrong, and his sickness is not caused by the link, as I am showing evidence that suggests that it started before the Moridin Link through the wound from Fain's dagger. What I am proposing is that yes there is a link between Rand and Moridin, but that the sickness is caused by the dagger wound and not the Moridin Link.

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See Lucker's analysis on why the Rand/Moridin link causes the channeling sickness (towards end of theory). Pretty conclusive to me.

 

Lucker's Rand/Moridin link theory

 

 

Yes, I have read the theory, but I am proposing that he is wrong, and his sickness is not caused by the link, as I am showing evidence that suggests that it started before the Moridin Link through the wound from Fain's dagger. What I am proposing is that yes there is a link between Rand and Moridin, but that the sickness is caused by the dagger wound and not the Moridin Link.

 

I just don't think the quotes from aCoS indicate the same kind of nauseating sickness that we see later. It seems more like he is just in pain and weak from Fain's attack or that being in Shadar Logoth is amplifying the taint/Fain's wound. I think this is different from what we later see. It's a possibility but I think Lucker's conclusion is more likely.

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See Lucker's analysis on why the Rand/Moridin link causes the channeling sickness (towards end of theory). Pretty conclusive to me.

 

Lucker's Rand/Moridin link theory

 

 

Yes, I have read the theory, but I am proposing that he is wrong, and his sickness is not caused by the link, as I am showing evidence that suggests that it started before the Moridin Link through the wound from Fain's dagger. What I am proposing is that yes there is a link between Rand and Moridin, but that the sickness is caused by the dagger wound and not the Moridin Link.

 

I just don't think the quotes from aCoS indicate the same kind of nauseating sickness that we see later. It seems more like he is just in pain and weak from Fain's attack or that being in Shadar Logoth is amplifying the taint/Fain's wound. I think this is different from what we later see. It's a possibility but I think Lucker's conclusion is more likely.

 

True, but then explain to me the second quote I suggested which occurs when he seizes Saidin for the first time after waking up following obtaining the wound. There is something there that suggests an oddity to the Void.

Something crooked and red spiderwebbed across the outside of the Void

That was not in Shadar Logoth. But the channelling sickness was progressive. This is the first symptom, before the nausea, before any other symptoms. And it occurs before the Moridin Link.

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The ACoS quotes you provide I think have more to do with how the taint and the Shadar Logath evil react with one another, which is different from the channeling sickness. What Rand is feeling in the quotes is what he will eventually use to cleanse the taint on Saidin.

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See Lucker's analysis on why the Rand/Moridin link causes the channeling sickness (towards end of theory). Pretty conclusive to me.

 

Lucker's Rand/Moridin link theory

 

 

Yes, I have read the theory, but I am proposing that he is wrong, and his sickness is not caused by the link, as I am showing evidence that suggests that it started before the Moridin Link through the wound from Fain's dagger. What I am proposing is that yes there is a link between Rand and Moridin, but that the sickness is caused by the dagger wound and not the Moridin Link.

 

I just don't think the quotes from aCoS indicate the same kind of nauseating sickness that we see later. It seems more like he is just in pain and weak from Fain's attack or that being in Shadar Logoth is amplifying the taint/Fain's wound. I think this is different from what we later see. It's a possibility but I think Lucker's conclusion is more likely.

 

True, but then explain to me the second quote I suggested which occurs when he seizes Saidin for the first time after waking up following obtaining the wound. There is something there that suggests an oddity to the Void.

Something crooked and red spiderwebbed across the outside of the Void

That was not in Shadar Logoth. But the channelling sickness was progressive. This is the first symptom, before the nausea, before any other symptoms. And it occurs before the Moridin Link.

 

I think he's just having trouble there concentrating because of the pain of his wounds.

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It was already before Shadar Logoth. He felt it for the first time in TGS. Most people think he gains access by the connection with Moridin. So even if he directly got access, it wouldn't fit. And the Dark One wouldn't give him access. You could say the Dark One did as punishment for Semirhage, but Rand still has access:

 

(I hope it is the exact quote. I'm too lazy to look it up).

 

"A month ago, I would have returned those slaps with balefire," Rand said.

"Within the guardian?" Cadsuane asked.

"The guardian blocks the One Power. The One Power only." Rand said.

 

And then something about Cadsuane trying to understand what he means.

 

I still don't get that quote, how does Rand know he still has access? How does he even know what it was? LTT I suppose may have heard of it but never learned to use it. And he's talking about before zen rand, so he didn't have full LTT yet. It makes no sense that quote is about the TP.

 

I propose two things:

 

1. He was just barking. Rand suggested to Cads he could stop his heart by willpower alone, which was clearly a bluff Cads would not call. Some people took this as fact, but then why would Rand ever need to channel at all? The statement to the BLers could be similar. Also, Rand walking into the WT unconcerned is another display of arrogance to promote his self confidence and people's opinion that he's untouchable.

 

2. He was suggesting that the guardian stops the weaving but not the effect. Recall that the previous "meeting" he raised up the choden kal from outside the guardian's influence to destroy the BLers before Nynaeve stopped him. Well, that obviously suggests he was going to weave something INTO the guardian's area, not use the TP. So slap rand, he gates back a ways outside the guardian then WHAMO balefires into the area from outside. Of course it was worded to make it seem cooler, cause he likes to keep people on their toes.

 

On topic... I used to just assume Rand's sickness was just related to the ammount of taint he had in his head, and channeling through it all the time just made him more and more physically ill, and that VoG gold stuff protected him.

 

However, I just recently signed up to "he's had taint protection since tEotW" theory so now I don't know what to think. Psychosomatic maybe? I do believe it has ended, and given EotW taint inoculation theory the only thing he gains in VoG is knowledge... so there's a wrench in my gears ;)

 

LTT tells him what he tapped into when he killed Semirhage..so he know he touched the True Power. He probably still has access.

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It was already before Shadar Logoth. He felt it for the first time in TGS. Most people think he gains access by the connection with Moridin. So even if he directly got access, it wouldn't fit. And the Dark One wouldn't give him access. You could say the Dark One did as punishment for Semirhage, but Rand still has access:

 

(I hope it is the exact quote. I'm too lazy to look it up).

 

"A month ago, I would have returned those slaps with balefire," Rand said.

"Within the guardian?" Cadsuane asked.

"The guardian blocks the One Power. The One Power only." Rand said.

 

And then something about Cadsuane trying to understand what he means.

 

I still don't get that quote, how does Rand know he still has access? How does he even know what it was? LTT I suppose may have heard of it but never learned to use it. And he's talking about before zen rand, so he didn't have full LTT yet. It makes no sense that quote is about the TP.

 

I propose two things:

 

1. He was just barking. Rand suggested to Cads he could stop his heart by willpower alone, which was clearly a bluff Cads would not call. Some people took this as fact, but then why would Rand ever need to channel at all? The statement to the BLers could be similar. Also, Rand walking into the WT unconcerned is another display of arrogance to promote his self confidence and people's opinion that he's untouchable.

 

2. He was suggesting that the guardian stops the weaving but not the effect. Recall that the previous "meeting" he raised up the choden kal from outside the guardian's influence to destroy the BLers before Nynaeve stopped him. Well, that obviously suggests he was going to weave something INTO the guardian's area, not use the TP. So slap rand, he gates back a ways outside the guardian then WHAMO balefires into the area from outside. Of course it was worded to make it seem cooler, cause he likes to keep people on their toes.

 

On topic... I used to just assume Rand's sickness was just related to the ammount of taint he had in his head, and channeling through it all the time just made him more and more physically ill, and that VoG gold stuff protected him.

 

However, I just recently signed up to "he's had taint protection since tEotW" theory so now I don't know what to think. Psychosomatic maybe? I do believe it has ended, and given EotW taint inoculation theory the only thing he gains in VoG is knowledge... so there's a wrench in my gears ;)

 

LTT tells him what he tapped into when he killed Semirhage..so he know he touched the True Power. He probably still has access.

 

Oh I'm sure he still has access through the link. But I highly doubt he can use it on command and for the exact weave he wants. And he would have to wrestle it through Moridin which I'm sure is different from having your own access.

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It was already before Shadar Logoth. He felt it for the first time in TGS. Most people think he gains access by the connection with Moridin. So even if he directly got access, it wouldn't fit. And the Dark One wouldn't give him access. You could say the Dark One did as punishment for Semirhage, but Rand still has access:

 

(I hope it is the exact quote. I'm too lazy to look it up).

 

"A month ago, I would have returned those slaps with balefire," Rand said.

"Within the guardian?" Cadsuane asked.

"The guardian blocks the One Power. The One Power only." Rand said.

 

And then something about Cadsuane trying to understand what he means.

 

I still don't get that quote, how does Rand know he still has access? How does he even know what it was? LTT I suppose may have heard of it but never learned to use it. And he's talking about before zen rand, so he didn't have full LTT yet. It makes no sense that quote is about the TP.

 

I propose two things:

 

1. He was just barking. Rand suggested to Cads he could stop his heart by willpower alone, which was clearly a bluff Cads would not call. Some people took this as fact, but then why would Rand ever need to channel at all? The statement to the BLers could be similar. Also, Rand walking into the WT unconcerned is another display of arrogance to promote his self confidence and people's opinion that he's untouchable.

 

2. He was suggesting that the guardian stops the weaving but not the effect. Recall that the previous "meeting" he raised up the choden kal from outside the guardian's influence to destroy the BLers before Nynaeve stopped him. Well, that obviously suggests he was going to weave something INTO the guardian's area, not use the TP. So slap rand, he gates back a ways outside the guardian then WHAMO balefires into the area from outside. Of course it was worded to make it seem cooler, cause he likes to keep people on their toes.

 

On topic... I used to just assume Rand's sickness was just related to the ammount of taint he had in his head, and channeling through it all the time just made him more and more physically ill, and that VoG gold stuff protected him.

 

However, I just recently signed up to "he's had taint protection since tEotW" theory so now I don't know what to think. Psychosomatic maybe? I do believe it has ended, and given EotW taint inoculation theory the only thing he gains in VoG is knowledge... so there's a wrench in my gears ;)

 

LTT tells him what he tapped into when he killed Semirhage..so he know he touched the True Power. He probably still has access.

 

Oh I'm sure he still has access through the link. But I highly doubt he can use it on command and for the exact weave he wants. And he would have to wrestle it through Moridin which I'm sure is different from having your own access.

 

I'm on the fence. There's no evidence to suggest that he still does - the quote provided doesn't as he's talking about his reaction one month ago, and many things have now changed.

That said, there's no evidence to suggest he doesn't. However, with the "channeling sickness" now apparently gone (if we buy it's from the link with Moridin, and that the TP has come in the same way), the link seems to have changed in nature.

I remember a theory being mooted that Moridin's constant use of the TP had made the OP sickly to him, and that this was what the channeling sickness was. As such, the link would seem to have changed if the sickness is gone.

However, the link is still in play.

 

The only other alternative is that the channeling sickness is related to Rand's darkened state of mind, the whole "Dragon is one with the land" stuff IMO. That said, I don't see how, but that's the only other change that could've made it go.

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I am not sure Rand has the channeling sickness anymore...before VoG he was vomiting when trying to hold saiden..in ToM he was casually creating gateways etc at a moments notice with a wave of his wrist.

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Maybe the sickness was the beginning of Rand dying from the Taint. The book says that men eventually die through channelling maybe the sickness linked to that. The cleansing of the Taint couldn't reverse what it had already done to him, so it wasn't until VoG and gaining the "Light Shield" on his brain,(can't think of a better way to put it, it's 3am) that the sickness stops.

Edited by Darren heron-Mark Clayden
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Maybe the sickness was the beginning of Rand dying from the Taint. The book says that men eventually die through channelling maybe the sickness linked to that. The cleansing of the Taint couldn't reverse what it had already done to him, so it wasn't until VoG and gaining the "Light Shield" on his brain,(can't think of a better way to put it, it's 3am) that the sickness stops.

 

It still became worse after Shadar Logoth. That wouldn't have been so, except if he failed. And I don't believe that.

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Min's PoV in ToM, and Rand's apparent ease in using OP, suggests the sickness is no longer around.

As to TP access, the simplest explanation for the Far Madding "One Power only" statement is that he can still sense TP. Whether he could use it without a struggle or not, if he can still sense it, inside the Guardian's sphere of influence when he can't sense OP, the remark is explained.

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Maybe the sickness was the beginning of Rand dying from the Taint. The book says that men eventually die through channelling maybe the sickness linked to that. The cleansing of the Taint couldn't reverse what it had already done to him, so it wasn't until VoG and gaining the "Light Shield" on his brain,(can't think of a better way to put it, it's 3am) that the sickness stops.

 

It still became worse after Shadar Logoth. That wouldn't have been so, except if he failed. And I don't believe that.

 

 

Don't believe it myself m8, but I thought I'd throw the theory out here.

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Can some-one please check something for me? If I recall correctly there was no mention of the sickness when Rand was on dragonmount while he used the Choedan Kal to hold the OP in that huge amount before he had his epiphany.

Is that right? If so, the actual VoG epiphany was after the sickness was gone. One would have expected holding that much of the OP would have made him at least throw up last weeks breakfast.

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perhaps if it was all in his mind due to him repressing his emotions then the sickness may have relaxed its hold on him a bit when he when crazy at Tam

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When Rand was on Dragonmount during VoG he was still holding the power from when he created the gateway. That's why he didn't get sick again.

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When Rand was on Dragonmount during VoG he was still holding the power from when he created the gateway. That's why he didn't get sick again.

 

Are you positively sure? IIRC he was sitting down to comtemplate his existence right after he Travelled to Dragonmount and made himself a warm breathable patch to do some serious soulsearching. Was his soulsearch-POV in VoG right from the start from within the void? Always seemed to me he seized the power some time later.

Could be wrong though, have to look it up at home.

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When Rand was on Dragonmount during VoG he was still holding the power from when he created the gateway. That's why he didn't get sick again.

 

Are you positively sure? IIRC he was sitting down to comtemplate his existence right after he Travelled to Dragonmount and made himself a warm breathable patch to do some serious soulsearching. Was his soulsearch-POV in VoG right from the start from within the void? Always seemed to me he seized the power some time later.

Could be wrong though, have to look it up at home.

He was already holding the power.

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