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Can anyone stop Fain?

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Every special item in WoT seems to have a specific purpose, even if at the time it isn't apparent. Like Matt's ashandarei i think Perrin's Big Bad Hammer will have a Plot Power and since he doesn't really have any obvious plot path to whinge about and slowly trundle along, there must be a good reason for him to have it.


I like the Theory of Perrin finishing the job =D


Maybe ill make a new thread about this....

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Thus even a sa'angreal like Callandor would be insufficient for the task.




If Shadar Haran is actually the Hand of Shai'tan, and not merely a Super Fade, then possibly it can fight Fain...annihilating each other?


I disagree that Callandor cant do it. I have a theory that it can deliver weaves, and that if it came to it, it could be used to stab Shaidar and deliver a weave that severs the connection between it and the rest of the Dark One. I think it could do the same thing to Fain as well; stab him with it, do the same weave, and the connection between Fain and whatever he is connected to (Mashadar, Machin Sin, the zombie Trollocs, etc) would also be cut.




How would Callandor top Mashadar from spreading? It is no longer contained in one city and consumes everything in sight, it is growing, and it regenerates and can apparently turn any size army of Shadowspawn to mere slaves of Fain.


I guess it will depends on how much Mashadar that Fain has thus far and when he is confronted. Waiting too long = world consumed, waiting much too long = worlds consumed.


how to stop it spreading? Kill it.



But if Mashadar is too vast, Callandor will be insufficient for the task. Mashadar at city size could not be destroyed by the entire White Tower, according to Moraine. Mashadar regenerates.


Yeah but does Moiraine know everything? We know balefire can hurt Mashadar, and we know Callandor can potenially do anything due to the lack of a buffer. I mean theres no way Callandors base strength is greater than the CK, and Rand could use the CK without any other angreal boosting him, so he can without a doubt go safely past the "safe" line with it, no problem. Plus Mashadar hasnt got that big yet, no need to look at worst case scenarios.



Egwene: "Can you kill it...clear a way?"


Moraine: "Mashadar is vast girl, as vast as Shadar Logoth itself. The whole White Tower could not kill it. If I damaged it enough to let you pass, drawing that much of the One Power would pull the Halfmen like a trumpet call. And Mashadar would rush in to heal whatever harm I did, rush in and perhaps catch us in a net".


After the balefire: "Even mindless Mashadar fled balefire, it seemed".


Cadsuane: "Except she was acting as a conduit for far more of saidar than the entire White Tower could have handled using every angreal and sa'angreal the Tower possessed".


The Choden Kal was able to eliminate the taint and destroy Mashadar in SL. Of course, there is no doubt that one of the sa'angreal could have destroyed Mashadar, since one can destroy a continent, or the world in one blow (as Rand was about to do). However, it is doubtful Callandor would have been enough, given what Moraine has said above, it Mashadar becomes city size.




The longer Fain is free, the greater his power becomes, probably = more vast Mashadar becomes = greater OP to destroy it. Eventually, he will be as great a threat as Shai'tan.


When SL was destroyed it had no impact on Fain. If Fain is destroyed, what will happen to Mashadar? Is it now connected to him and would die afterwards?


As for Rand ambushing Fain, unlikely, it has always been the other way around. I doubt Rand knows that wielding the OP results in Fain no longer able to sense him. Fain is the one planning another ambush for Rand in ToM.



Anyway, the DR reborn is facing far greater and far more powerful enemies than he did in AoL. Fortunately for him, he seemed to have gotten Power and/or ability bonus after the Dragonmount awakening.


1/ Ishamael was not wielding the TP in AoL until the very end. After which Ishy said that is greater one now to LTT.


2/ Shaidar Haran the Super Fade with very interesting powers. Could be a mini-Shai'tan.


3/ Fain, something never before seen in the Pattern and controls Mashadar.



With so many powerful and immensely powerful/dangerous beings after him, likelihood of his death is almost certain.

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According to Moraine, not even the entire White Tower could destroy Mashadar. Moraine said that if Mordeth escaped the world was doomed.


The Choden Khal was needed to completely cleanse Shadar Logoth.


Thus even a sa'angreal like Callandor would be insufficient for the task.


Even an army of gholam would die before Mashadar, since it can suck the life out of anything living and even infect the none living.


Fain now controls Mashadar. Fain easily kills an army of Trollocs and actually turns them into more powerful zombie versions using Mashadar.


Jordan has confirmed he is something entirely new.



What can even the new and improved Dragon do against Fain?


What can Moridin do against Fain?


If Shadar Haran is actually the Hand of Shai'tan, and not merely a Super Fade, then possibly it can fight Fain...annihilating each other?


Rand could have destroyed Fain when he saw him in the tent before he dueled with the Noble guy. RJ had other ideas, so I accept it as the way he wanted it.

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AIUI, the taint and the SL evil destroyed one another in the Cleansing, leaving a b****y great hole. Mashadar was one manifestation of that evil. The 'mist' that is attached to Fain seems different, but may be a mini-Mashadar.

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Mashadar was destroyed in the destuction of Shadar Logoth. The fog that attacked the rebels in PoD was a Bubble of Evil. What Fain did in ToM Prologue doesn't really fit with Mashadar - it's just a Fain power.

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Remember, it wasn't just BOTH Choden Kal's that destroyed SL, Rand dumped the entirety of the DO's taint on Saidin onto the City and they "killed" each other.



In the grand scheme of things IMO, Ta'veren are provided with what they need before they need it and Rand needed SL and its evil to be there in order to cleanse Saidin.

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rand: Hey shaitan before i destroy the seals and release you so we can do this stupid last battle thing can ya do me a favor? this guy fain kind mucked up a few things and hes getting really annoying. besides we dont want anyone else trying to steal our thunder right?


Shaitan: splutters....you lock me up for three thousand years with no one to talk to but idiots like mesaana and graendal, even let ishamael have conjugal visits with the world and you want ME to fix the fain problem?!?!?!....!?!!!!?


Rand: well you kind of did make him didnt you?


Shaitan: ME hell no that was all Ishamael that twit was convinced he was my second coming and never listened to me. the trollocs wars are a bad idea i said, no we dont need to spread the friends of the dark that far yet, your wasting your energy. BUT did he ever listen to me? never not one damned time.


Rand: soooo about fain?


Shaitan: oh all right but if i break a nail im going to take it out on your hide Lews Therin. mumbles while stalking off like a ridge cat.

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