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Big Explosion in Oslo

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this convo is going way off topic. if you want to, we can pick it up in the D&D section and i'd be happy to discuss the media and it's interpretaion of Terrosim with you there :happy:

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trust me based on what i seen of norwegian health care in case of handling bad cases, its the last place i would want too see him, too easily manipulated in some cases and too deaf in others

 

i do not believe its the best place too put him, if he is in jail at least he will be locked up, we had our fair share of cases with killings of mental patients that either didnt get the help they asked for or were let out too early, so personally i dont have a very strong faith in our mental health care system

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What I would like most, would be that they would allow torture for one month, then allow the death penalty the day after this month. He deserves nothing less. And if they don't want to do that, well, then they should lock him up for as long as possible. And a week after his release I think he will be lynched already.

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What I would like most, would be that they would allow torture for one month, then allow the death penalty the day after this month. He deserves nothing less. And if they don't want to do that, well, then they should lock him up for as long as possible. And a week after his release I think he will be lynched already.

 

So abandon all our democratic principles to "get at him" (which is exactly what he predicted and is still expecting to happen) which then essentially means he "wins"? Yeah great plan.

 

By all means, we need to keep him away from society as long as absolutely possible, and I also hope this situation will trigger some legislation that makes a life sentence possible in the penal code (if only in extreme circumstances), but keep it within the code of the Norwegian Law.

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i don't think he's any more likely to be parolled than charles manson, no matter how he's sentenced.

 

nothing will change what he's done, and nobody can ever give him what he deserves.

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i don't think he's any more likely to be parolled than charles manson, no matter how he's sentenced.

 

nothing will change what he's done, and nobody can ever give him what he deserves.

 

Difference being that you don't have to be "paroled" in Norway. If he's sentenced to "Forvaring" he has a right to a hearing every year after he has served 10 years (Someone can correct me on this if Ive got the number of years wrong) and on that hearing there isn't any question of the severity of his crimes, rather if he's a continued threat to society.

 

Could go either way but I wouldn't dismiss the notion of him being out of prison in 20-30 years if he's sentenced to "forvaring".

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manson keeps having hearings, too, but he'll never go free. is norway really so different? are memories so short? so forgiving? not arguing, just surprised.

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manson keeps having hearings, too, but he'll never go free. is norway really so different? are memories so short? so forgiving? not arguing, just surprised.

 

Has nothing to do with memories being short or people being forgiving. We have no life sentence in Norway, the only substitute is something that puts you away until a hearing is satisfied that you're no longer a threat to society. The crime you already committed, while taken into account, shouldn't affect the outcome of that. Now considering this is a man who clearly has no problem following and executing a plan over many years I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to get himself released at some point.

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What I would like most, would be that they would allow torture for one month, then allow the death penalty the day after this month. He deserves nothing less. And if they don't want to do that, well, then they should lock him up for as long as possible. And a week after his release I think he will be lynched already.

 

 

if you compromise your values because of someones actions then they've won. honestly, while i disagree with the lack of a death penalty or life in prison option, i do have to pat Norway on the back for keeping to their values and not changing them becuase some lunatic with a cause wanted to make a point. it's speaks very highly of the people of Norway honestly.

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I haven't really been very active on DM ever, so I don't suppose anyone has missed me. But just in case, I'm fine. Frightened and sad, but unhurt and more determined and driven than ever. Forgive me for checking in so late, DM has been low on my list of priorities since last Friday.

 

So, to the discussion going on above. Thankfully, Norway is a democracy. That democracy is what has now been attacked. One of the pillars of democracy is the Rechtsstaat (seriously, German? Why?). In which one of the most important principles is that one is not to pe punished without having been subject to a fair trial, and to be judged at that trial according to the laws as they were when the act in question was done. (I don't know ho to make sentences in English, this was far less complicated in my head in Norwegian.) As both the PM and the mayor of Oslo has said, our answer to this must be more democracy. Hence we cannot compromise the Rechtsstaat. These attacks cannot be allowed to hurt our democracy.

 

As to what the killer deserves, what he deserves is to lose. What he deserves is to see that his terrible actions will not influence our democracy, our openness, our optimism, our belief in humanity. He deserves to be punished, not by torture or death, but by seeing us refuse to change for the worse, refuse to let our fear alter us, working through democratic channels to change our country and our world for the better, support each other and create a warmer and more embracing society. And he deserves to be punished according to the laws. Let us not hate or seek revenge. Hate is on his side. Already, this has become a historic quote in Norway: If one man can show so much hate, imagine how much love we all can show together.

Edited by Hold On To The Night

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that was very beautifully said. i'm happy to know you are OK, and i continue to be amazed at the resilience of the Norwegian people.

 

one of the best things you said, to me, was, "If one man can show so much hate, imagine how much love we all can show together."

 

great good can come of great evil, and i hope and pray that it will.

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*sends a long distance snuggle to Hold* glad your okay, and glad you've come back to DM. in this case, we'll accept DM not being high on your priorety list :tongue: j/k

 

 

anyways, ditto on what Cindy said!!

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Thanks, both of you. It's nice hearing nice things from people now. It sounds stupid, but it actually kind of helps. And thanks for the snuggle, Red, I needed that. And just to be clear, that quote is not mine. It surfaced on Twitter, and then one of the survivers from Utøya repeated it when asked by the CNN about revenge. After that it has become kind of the motto of the time, even Stoltenberg (the PM) used it in a speach. It is really beautifully said, I agree.

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it doesn't sound at all stupid. i remember feeling alone and afraid, and vulnerable, and waiting for the world to end, and wtaching horrors unfold on TV, and listening to the people around me cry and rant and. . . and seeing that so many people from so many places showed love and support - it helped.

 

it is a wonderful quote, the kind of thing that could lead the world to a better place.

 

if snuggles help, you have mine, as well, and my two purring kitties. {{{{{hold on}}}}}

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Sorry for reviving an old thread. But I have been reading a lot about this lately, stories from survivors, medical staff, police, families...

 

I don't know how much the international media has been writing about this lately. The trial starts in june, I think. Some psyciatric specialists claimed he had schzofrenia. This caused huge debates and there is now new specialists reviewing him. I am not sure if they have come to a conclusion yet or not.

 

I was not in the area (I live 2 hours away), nor did I know anyone who was at Utøya. I do have lots of friends who live and work close to where the bomb went off, so it was a few scary hours waiting for everyone to report in. My uncle passed by the bombed builiding only an hour before the bomb...

 

I was sitting at a pizza resturant with my dad, my stepmom and my two little brothers, they live across the country but was visiting. Suddenly my husband calls me "there's been an explosion in Oslo." We were shocked and a bit scared, trying not to let the boys see or hear. They left for their hotel, and I was sitting outside the café my husband works at with two friends, when he came out and said a policeman was shooting at kids at summer camp. We were confused and doubting. Where the two connected? How? Why? When my husband was done at work we went home, and spent hours watching the news,reading news reports online, trying to get in touch with everyone we knew. At around midnight I was close to breaking down, it was all too much. We put on a nice movie, made some brownies and spent most of the night cuddling on the couch and shutting out the world. .

 

It was rosemarches all over the country a week after. My husband then worked at a local café at the place in our town where everyone was gathering before to march to hear speeches and things. We gave away free coffee, working for free after closing hours. It was a little thing, but it was good to be able to do... Something. Anything.

 

Almost nine months has passed, and to me it goes from feeling very surreal to feeling extremely scaring again. I have anxiety problems, and this gave me scars, even though I was not in any physical danger myself.

 

It is hard, as a person and as a country, to recover from something like this. Even though we know now that is was only 1 man acting alone, it's still scary. To know that there are individuals capable of doing such acts in cold blood.

 

Not sure where Im going with this post. I've just had this in my head alot the last couple of days, and when I found this thread while browsing trough old topics, I just had to post.

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