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Who is Demandred  

169 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you think Demandred is (first read my post, please))

    • Lunar Galgan
      3
    • King Roedran
      99
    • Mazrim Taim
      16
    • Jarid Sarand
      0
    • Lord Bashere
      3
    • Someone in Seanchan/Shara/Land of the Madmen
      25
    • Other (please tell who)
      23
  2. 2. Where had Demandred influence

    • The Black Tower
      84
    • Murandy
      86
    • Seanchan mainland
      19
    • Seanchan Randland
      20
    • Land of the Madmen
      20
    • Dragon's Empire
      20
    • Borderland army
      18
    • Other (again, please tell where)
      26


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I just read another quote:

 

Towers of Midnight book tour 7 November 2010 Harvard Coop, Cambridge, MA - Zaela Sedai reporting

 

Q: Was Demandred or his proxy in Towers of Midnight?

A: No he was not; he will be in A Memory of Light.

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I also don't think it's Galgan, as he has blue eyes. Darkfriends have dark to black eyes due to the saa.

from WoTWikia Lunal Galgan is the Captain-General in charge of the Return.

Appearance Edit

He is tall with his white hair in a crest, its tail plaited to his shoulders. He has a creased face and blue eyes. His fingernails are lacquered red.

 

How would he have blue eyes?

 

One - The saa doesn't give people dark eyes. You just see black things in someone's eye, appearing and disappearing.

 

 

 

...and eventually their eyes turn into pits of flame.

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I just read another quote:

 

Towers of Midnight book tour 7 November 2010 Harvard Coop, Cambridge, MA - Zaela Sedai reporting

 

Q: Was Demandred or his proxy in Towers of Midnight?

A: No he was not; he will be in A Memory of Light.

 

We already knew this, but better to say something twice than not.

 

I also don't think it's Galgan, as he has blue eyes. Darkfriends have dark to black eyes due to the saa.

from WoTWikia Lunal Galgan is the Captain-General in charge of the Return.

Appearance Edit

He is tall with his white hair in a crest, its tail plaited to his shoulders. He has a creased face and blue eyes. His fingernails are lacquered red.

 

How would he have blue eyes?

 

One - The saa doesn't give people dark eyes. You just see black things in someone's eye, appearing and disappearing.

 

 

 

...and eventually their eyes turn into pits of flame.

 

We are not sure about that... Maybe it was just a trick. Or his madness.

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...and eventually their eyes turn into pits of flame.

 

We are not sure about that... Maybe it was just a trick. Or his madness.

 

 

Actually, we are sure about that...

 

Q: What about the saa? You wrote in a chapter, that there is a black hole before Moridin's eyes.

RJ: No, no, in the eyes. It is not before. In the eyes, inside the eyes.

Q: And can see through? (-?- unsure about this sentence. -?-)

RJ: It depends. When you are using the True Power. At first, when you begin using the True Power, there's nothing there. Nothing in the eyes. After you've used it for a while, you begin to have a black speck floating across your eyes, when you're using it.

Q: And then you see, other observers can see it.

RJ: No, you don't see it. You don't actually see it.

Q: I think it was the chapter when Moridin was observing with a cloak of fancloth. His vision was blurred by a rain of black spots.

H: But it didn't affect his vision.

RJ: It didn't affect his vision. You're aware of it, but it's not like there is blackness between you, because it gets thicker and thicker and thicker and you get to a point where if you've used it long enough you get a steady stream even if you're not connected. And you are then on the road, at that point, inevitably, to becoming what Ishamael was. Because these are stigmata, if you will. These saa are stigmata caused by a linkage to the Dark One. And eventually the effect is to become all fire eyes. You no longer have eyes visible to other people. If they're looking into your eyes, they seem to be looking into caverns of flame that stretch to infinity. And when you open your mouth they see another cavern of flame that stretches to infinity. Because you've reached at that point the ultimate level of this usage and quite possibly, if you've at this point not been granted immortality, you're on your way to death. Not madness, but you're on your way to death. So it's sort of a race. The Dark One has given you this boon, but if you use it very much, then you'd better hope he is willing to give you another boon, because if he doesn't give you the second boon then you're dead. Some of the Forsaken have expressed discomfort with the fact that Ishamael and Moridin are so free with using the True Power.

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I think after seeing Rand take out some of the other Forsaken, Demandred probably wants to stay a little more incognito. Compelling tons of people, especially people in positions of power, would draw much more attention. As would occupying a more obvious seat of power.

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1. Demandred might not have any Talent for Compulsion. Some are better at it than others.

 

2. Demandred might well (by extension, or otherwise) look down on Compulsion as a means of getting things done. The Forsaken all have different ways of doing things, and we've never seen him use it or think about using it.

 

3. It's not as easy as Compelling everyone anyway. Compelling everyone takes too much time, has too many loopholes, etc. Much easier to take the opportunity that the Band presented him (on several different levels).

 

1. If he lacks the talent, which he may, he could just easily find a dark sister to do it for him.

 

2. Possible. We haven't seen Demandred do or think much of anything. I still don't see him sinking all the time running around consolidating the nation when a few uses of subtle compulsion could get it done in no time.

 

3. He doesn't have to compel everyone. Just the leaders of the various factions. He doesn't need to do much more than plant the idea of an outside threat and that a united Murandy is necessary to combat it. The hatred of Andor is way to easy to leverage. Certainly much less costly and risky than bringing in a large mercenary force.

 

Don't get me wrong I voted Roedran. I just can't see Demandred expending all this unneeded effort. I certainly won't be upset if he does turn out to be Roedran. And I'm sure if he does we'll get a decent reveal on what and how he's been doing everything.

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And I'm sure if he does we'll get a decent reveal on what and how he's been doing everything.

 

Or we'll get a quick death and then "I think he was Demandred. Barid Bel Medar always had it in for me."

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The

from JordanCon has finally been posted (actually, I missed it when it was first posted). We took a vote on Demandred. :biggrin:
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I loved that one guys idea about the Asha'man using his gateways for artillery support! :laugh:

 

Edit: The Loony Theories are even more hilarious!

Edited by contempt
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Nice of Demandred to unite a Murandian army just in time to fight against the shadow in TG. Unless, of course, you believe he either compelled the entire army, or that an army of human wouldn't run screaming the second you tried to united them with a trolloc horde against fellow humans...

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As has been said before, most likely he plans to use them in such a way that they won't know they're fighting for the Shadow at all. Probably he intends to use them against the Andoran army and the Band by manipulating their grievances against both.

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Are we missing something here though?

 

Lets go back to Tear when Be'lal was there, Illian when Sammy was in charge or Caemlyn when Rahvin was running it.

 

Remember the dreams everyone was having in those cities, slowing losing their will to live/fight?

 

If Demandred is in Murandy, what's stopping him from doing the exact same thing in Murandy to its people?

(I only say if, because we obviously don't have hard proof yet but I have thought that for a long time now. Hell I even mentioned the possible significance of Talmanas' pipe before a certain quote mistress did :tongue: )

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You people are ignoring the most significant hint to where he is. The one where he comments where the DO places the three of them, Mesaanna, Semirhage and him. What makes Murandy, in anyways comparable to the WT and Seanchan? I think that Shara might be out of the picture because Graendal put that place in chaos by taking their "leaders". (what you call them?) If indeed he is not in the black tower, I'm thinking more of the Seafolk or the Islands of Madmen.

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You people are ignoring the most significant hint to where he is. The one where he comments where the DO places the three of them, Mesaanna, Semirhage and him. What makes Murandy, in anyways comparable to the WT and Seanchan?

This comment was from LOC, when Demandred was probably most active at the Black Tower. I don't think he set up shop in Murandy until Moridin returned.

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As has been said before, most likely he plans to use them in such a way that they won't know they're fighting for the Shadow at all. Probably he intends to use them against the Andoran army and the Band by manipulating their grievances against both.

 

 

That will be a neat trick with the Andorans and the Band fighting the trollocs bubbling out of the Camelyn gateway. Youd have to stoke some pretty intense grievances to convince the Murandians to walk through a gateway and then drive into the rear of the armies fighting against the trollocs.

 

And if not, then what? Creating some diversion or some other minor annoyance (in the grand scheme of things) doesnt sound like the work of the remaining forsaken being described as the Dark's ace in the hole. And thats the fatal flaw in the entire Roedran theory- Murdany is just too inconsequential to be the lynchpin in the plans of the dark... quite aside from the problem of getting them to betray humanity. If you are willing to accept that Taimandred was a red herring,Roedran as a red herring should be much easier to swallow.

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As has been said before, most likely he plans to use them in such a way that they won't know they're fighting for the Shadow at all. Probably he intends to use them against the Andoran army and the Band by manipulating their grievances against both.

 

 

That will be a neat trick with the Andorans and the Band fighting the trollocs bubbling out of the Camelyn gateway. Youd have to stoke some pretty intense grievances to convince the Murandians to walk through a gateway and then drive into the rear of the armies fighting against the trollocs.

Who's to say they'll even know the Shadowspawn are there? My guess is that the Band is going to get harried against the wall of the city before they get inside to find the Shadowspawn (and the dragons). And if the Shadowspawn show up, then that just causes more chaos, which is what Demandred is likely after.

 

And if not, then what? Creating some diversion or some other minor annoyance (in the grand scheme of things) doesnt sound like the work of the remaining forsaken being described as the Dark's ace in the hole.

Again, it's only a small piece of it. Murandy is nothing more than a power base and possibly a staging ground for Demandred. His 'work' is the Battle of Caemlyn, most likely; the army of Murandy is only one small piece of that.

 

And thats the fatal flaw in the entire Roedran theory

The fatal flaw in the anti-Roedran arguments is the fact that everyone seems to expect Demandred's alter ego to be the whole of what he is doing, rather than just the where he is hiding. That fatal flaw is what prevented us from figuring it out a long time ago.

 

If you are willing to accept that Taimandred was a red herring,Roedran as a red herring should be much easier to swallow.

RJ said that Taimandred was never intended to be a red herring. I don't think Roedran is a red herring at all. If so, he's a horrible one, don't you think? Very counterintuitive to the average fan, since we all expect Demandred to be too awesome and badass to pose as such an insignificant ruler.

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As has been said before, most likely he plans to use them in such a way that they won't know they're fighting for the Shadow at all. Probably he intends to use them against the Andoran army and the Band by manipulating their grievances against both.

 

 

That will be a neat trick with the Andorans and the Band fighting the trollocs bubbling out of the Camelyn gateway. Youd have to stoke some pretty intense grievances to convince the Murandians to walk through a gateway and then drive into the rear of the armies fighting against the trollocs.

 

And if not, then what? Creating some diversion or some other minor annoyance (in the grand scheme of things) doesnt sound like the work of the remaining forsaken being described as the Dark's ace in the hole. And thats the fatal flaw in the entire Roedran theory- Murdany is just too inconsequential to be the lynchpin in the plans of the dark... quite aside from the problem of getting them to betray humanity. If you are willing to accept that Taimandred was a red herring,Roedran as a red herring should be much easier to swallow.

 

 

Where's the Red Herring in this case though?

Where are the blatantly obvious similarities that were present in Taimadred?

 

As far as needing a "neat trick"...what exactly do you believe Be'lal, Sammy and Rahvin were doing in Tear, Illian and Caemlyn? What would be the point of them taking over those Cities if they didn't have some way of suborning them?

The dreams and what seemed to be the freewill of the people draining away in those cities during their reigns was quite evident.

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It always gets me wondering why people will say it's ridiculous Demandred would pose as Roedran but then say he's probably in Land of the Madmen or Shara or somewhere that makes zero sense whatsoever in the way the series is laid out

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Someone here mentioned Taim being a new Forsaken..

 

I don't know if this has ever been brought up, but hasn't it been said that Rand was puzzled as to how Taim managed to fight off the taint while channeling for so many years? I'm guessing that like the other male Forsaken before the cleansing, he had the DO's protection from the counterstroke which confirms his status as possibly a new Chosen.

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Someone here mentioned Taim being a new Forsaken..

 

I don't know if this has ever been brought up, but hasn't it been said that Rand was puzzled as to how Taim managed to fight off the taint while channeling for so many years? I'm guessing that like the other male Forsaken before the cleansing, he had the DO's protection from the counterstroke which confirms his status as possibly a new Chosen.

 

I think you're right, and I think that most people will think that.

 

But this thread is about Demandred. You can always start a new thread about if Taim is or isn't a Forsaken, if you can't find it it doesn't already exist.

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kk. We know that Demandred's alter ego has not appeared in the series as of yet, so any characters we know can be ruled out.

He has a fur lined velvet cloak when going to Shayoul Ghul so he is located somewhere cold.

Sammeul comments that activities to the south has Demandred's hand all over it.

 

So the only place for Demandred to be is on Seanchan

Lets face the facts...

Seanchen is to the south and have large movements.

When Aviendha travelles to Seandar the Suldam they encounter are wearing fur lined cloaks.

The Empress dies misteriously

 

So Demandred is in Seandar, probably royalty, and he kills the Empress.

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Someone here mentioned Taim being a new Forsaken..

 

I don't know if this has ever been brought up, but hasn't it been said that Rand was puzzled as to how Taim managed to fight off the taint while channeling for so many years? I'm guessing that like the other male Forsaken before the cleansing, he had the DO's protection from the counterstroke which confirms his status as possibly a new Chosen.

 

I think you're right, and I think that most people will think that.

 

But this thread is about Demandred. You can always start a new thread about if Taim is or isn't a Forsaken, if you can't find it it doesn't already exist.

 

 

Taim is a darkfriend, there are and will be no more new forsaken

 

He is under the influence of Moridin

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