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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
JTmin5

Aviendahs walk through the glass ter'angreal

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I also thought that maybe Avi didn't change the columns that much. I think the reason that no wise one can go in twice is because the first shows the past, and some survive. The second shows the future, and the few people that tried it never made it out. At that point they decided nobody could go in twice. Of course, I can't remember if they address this in previous books. Do they say what happens if you DO go in twice?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Twilight may have been the most inspirational series I have ever read.

 

 

 

When I finished reading it I thought "If this lady could get rich off of THAT crap, anybody can write a book!"

 

 

 

I haven't quite gotten around to starting my Magnum opus yet, but from what I can tell it's something you can sort of slap together some rainy 3 day weekend.

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I also thought that maybe Avi didn't change the columns that much. I think the reason that no wise one can go in twice is because the first shows the past, and some survive. The second shows the future, and the few people that tried it never made it out. At that point they decided nobody could go in twice. Of course, I can't remember if they address this in previous books. Do they say what happens if you DO go in twice?

 

I think they just say for a man more than once means death, to a woman more than twice. In reference to Rhuidean in general, not the glass columns. I like the idea that it shows you your hardest to accept future, as sort of an admonition. And maybe others have tried going in a second time and none have ever been able to handle it so the wise ones assumed death was always the result (not my original idea, but i like it). MAYBE the Jenn used it to see their "bad" future and that's how they knew they had to make sure the Aiel leadership understood their roots. If they didn't there's no way the Aiel would accept the way of the leaf again.

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If the visions take place, there may be a chance of this series characters still being alive but in hiding.

 

The best chance of knowing for certain would be if the outriggers become published. And/Or if the author comments about them; though I imagine his response would be "Read And Find Out".

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1. Eragon > Twilight

 

Twilight may be poorly written, but it is for the most part original.

 

If a million monkeys were locked in a room with a million typewriters, apparently they can write Shakespeare, only this time the Capulets were vegetarian vampires and the Montagues had to study for Chem.

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First things first i havent read Twilight but eragon>twilight... and i say this because eragon was written by a teenager... he started the books when he was like 14 or something and actually wrote a soon to be four book series. As far as i can tell i couldnt manage that at his age. So naturally the story and material is a little more immature and not as well written. Overall though a good read and well put together for someone of that age and maturity. I have quite a bit of respect for christopher Paolini... and i have no arrangement to ever touch twilight like i have no arrangement to ever go out of my way to watch the notebook.

 

 

okay now thats said...

 

After Aviendah went through the columns she said she tried to feel the energy there again and the energy was gone. The life force or whatever power was there had left. Unless thats what happens every time after it kind of sounded like that was it. The columns are used up and the last of their energy went to predicting the outcome of the pattern.

 

The Karaethon Cycle says "He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf". The second part is clearly reference to the Way of the Leaf and the first part seems to support Aviendha's vision where the Dragon's Peace makes no arrangement for the Aiel and thereby leads to their (continued) destruction

 

This further shows what i originally stated, the only way for the Aiel to truly meet their "Toh" is to once again follow the way of the leaf. THey think they will meet it by fighting in the last battle, but that is only a part of it. They have renigged on their vows as a people to follow the way of the leaf and in order to fully regain their honor they will have to once again revert to their old ways and stop being a warrior society and fully respect and love others and live life in a more transcedental peaceful manner.

 

* still how is she supposed to get pregnant and have four kids before the last battle.... if the last battle is about to start i dont see how she is gonna pop out four kids in 3 months when her and Rand stil have to get it on, unless gestation period for the Aiel or the people of the WOT is much shorter than 9 months or that they have somehow discovered artificial insemination at one the universities rand started. She would have to survive the last battle so wtf wtf wtf.!!!!

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Eragon takes its plot from Star Wars and its world from Lord of the Rings. It doesn't even have the saving grace of being well written.

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* still how is she supposed to get pregnant and have four kids before the last battle.... if the last battle is about to start i dont see how she is gonna pop out four kids in 3 months when her and Rand stil have to get it on, unless gestation period for the Aiel or the people of the WOT is much shorter than 9 months or that they have somehow discovered artificial insemination at one the universities rand started. She would have to survive the last battle so wtf wtf wtf.!!!!

 

This means (indeed) that Avi and Rand will survive the Last Battle. Rand will move to Shayol Ghul the next day, so that means he will not have time for Aviendha. And I can't believe they wouldn't save the Aiel, and I also see no reason they could die after the birth of the children. So I think we can dismiss the vision. While I am not even talking about numbers in the fights. I calculated it once. the Seanchan will have maybe 50 000 more (worst case), but the Randlanders will have dragons. And about the channelers, they will be around equal, but the Seanchan can't make circles, and men are stronger than women.

 

Edit: Sorry, the Randlanders will have much more, but most will be less skilled. If the Seanchan, Aiel and Borderlanders are "high skilled" and the others "low skilled" (Taraboners and so on being Seanchan), then there will be 100 000 more high skilled at the Seanchan side, but 200 000 or 300 000 more low skilled on the Randlanders side.

Edited by Leyrann

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From a purely traditional militarily perspective, the Randland Seanchan empire is probably a little light to be taking on the united armies of Randland (provided that they clashed with forces similar in composition and comparative numbers as they currently have), the impact of the firework 'dragons' could make this even more dicey save for the fact that should Mat decide to go join his wife (which eventually he probably will) he will have 'dragons' with him, so this advantage is significantly reduced.

 

The major deciding factor IMO will be the OP, the Seanchan are more skill-full and experienced at using the OP as a weapon and to use it in other applications in the field of war; they (the randland seanchan) are also currently united under a single, relatively competent ruler with a skilled strategist on side, and most (excluding the newer arrivals) have appropriate training to integrate them into a military structure.

 

To counter this the randlander's access to the OP comes from fragmented organisations, however these organisations are able to link, forming circles and the presence of men will make a useful addition (should they be brought into the fold). While the seanchan males are still hunted and any ashaman captured are likely to be killed, we do not know the extent to which the seanchan are aware of the black collars that Sem had, nor if those were the only ones; should the seanchan have male adam as well, then the advantage they gain will be great.

 

Circles main benefit is raw power at the expense of the individuals within being unable to direct their own power, instead it is done for them; this means that the circles are likely to be more cumbersome but that direct attacks with the power are likely to be less effective. I am not sure that the more experienced Seanchan are more likely to be able to find a way around this issue - as I believe their skills are more suited towards more obvious displays of the power and probably not towards the sort of subtle weaves (and more importantly creative thinking) that would be required to identify and exploit the weaknesses of a circle.

 

Still, should they hold back while even a third of the Randlander army is savaged? Different story.

 

 

 

 

Oh and as for Eragon, I found it a reasonable read; and given the author's youth (where we are more prone to call on a limited number of creative influences given the amount of life experience), quite impressive.

Edited by Stitch

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Okay, The pillars

 

The pillars function by telling the past without the contributions of the person viewing it.

Maybe it shows the future in the same light. but it doesn't make choices and pick bad futures to challenge people, much like it didn't choose bad past visions to hurt the feelings of the viewers, it was programmed to show a comprehensive history of a person's past (within certain parameters set up by the old aes sedai)

When Avi reset it those parameters were removed and now it is looking at a more fluid future (a future no one believes will come to pass).

The only reason it can show something so out of wack is if it cannot compute the exceptional behavior of exceptional individuals and it literally forces progress to halt and stagnate before Avi's daughter enters the picture, and it is intelligent enough to realize that those individuals would not allow the future to be so badly ruined but it cannot conceive how they would succeed so it overwrites their presence removing them from the scene. Everyone thereafter is simple an base, moved by emotions, not by higher order ideals. In this it is very different from Min. Min reads the pattern and is never wrong (let's leave it at that for now). This is a genetic reader and future computer with limited processing capacity. that is the only way it can do this.

 

Raven Empire, can do very well, it continues as it is with a great army, now has traveling, so it reach back across Aryth for more women channelers. Also they can have male channelers now too, with a black adam and an entire empire to test and leash. There is no prohibition on their attacking Shara and any other continents that may exist. their current resources are limited but their potential for growth is fairly unlimited, also when they attacked they tended to take one country at a time so they continued to build strength with each success...

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First things first i havent read Twilight but eragon>twilight... and i say this because eragon was written by a teenager... he started the books when he was like 14 or something and actually wrote a soon to be four book series.

 

There's a form of OCD where people can't stop writing. Volume doesn't indicate whether something is worth reading or not.

 

Now the one-armed female professional surfer, that's impressive.

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Just because they seem to disagree with you doesnt mean they didnt read it.

 

For example I read your post yet still believe that what she saw the second time around is likely to be different than the experiences of any other wise one or chief to date - that seems to indicate that something changed and given the way that it was written, it is likely that this change occurred either automatically (which does not seem to be the case) as a result of the times (the truth about the past being exposed and the difficulty of attempting to determine what the purpose of them GOING to the pillars will mean for the individuals from here on out) or else in response to her touching the pillars and the awareness of those pillars (which means that while the pillar did the reconfiguration, it was in response to her actions and largely subconscious musings)

 

Less likely is that the pillars have always done this, yet the wiseones have been silent on it, thinking that the individual should discover the second pass through by themselves.

 

Less likely STILL is that the new visions are the result of some taveren or DO influence on the pattern, causing the terangeal to malfunction or something.

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I thinkt he collumns are showing what they fear the most about the future.

 

I think this may be the right angle to look at. Perhaps other wise ones have went through a 3rd time before and saw what they feared most. Yet it is not openly discussed. Maybe it shows what happens if you dont face your fears or atleast do something about them. When Avi touched it maybe it read her fears and then showed her what was to come if she didn't do something.

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Just because they seem to disagree with you doesnt mean they didnt read it.

For example I read your post yet still believe that [...]

I'm just trying to prevent people coming up with wild theories about Aviendha using the Power to interfere with the normal operation of the thing when there's nothing to suggest that happens. If you want to suggest her touching it had some inadvertent but pre-programmed effect than that's fine. Personally I espouse the theory that it has always been possible to take a second trip through in order to visit either the known future or a possible future.

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it might be the rings always do that but just about everyone that trys to go through another time dies. Or it could have been it read Avi and found out that the past of the Aiel can no longer be used because as she put it they cant be reminded of toh they no longer owe. So it changes and shows them the future and what they must not do.

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Does anyone think that perhaps, the pillars do have a kind of sentience, but instead of reading and working on Aviendha's 'fears' they simply read her mind and found out that the entire Aiel already knew the information that had previously been revealed in the pillars, rendering their previous function redundant, and so as per their design, they changed to show 'what was needed' but now from a possible future, in order to get the Aiel to behave maturely and intelligently in their medium term actions as a people.

 

I like the concept that the pillars were always setting the Aiel up to be ready to accept the Way of the Leaf again, and now it is showing that following their current violent ways will destroy them, so the WotL is the only thing they can do to survive.

 

I however believe it will take more than this for them to survive. What would be their purpose? In the Waste it was a struggle just to survive, and they grew strong. As one of the Chiefs (i think) says in the vision, the Aiel need a purpose again - there is only one purpose for them, if they accpet the WotL: to become the Da'shain Aiel once more, servents (to the channelers of Randland in general? To the unified force of WO, AS and WF we hope will arise?).

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