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The raid against Tar Valon


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Was the Seanchen raid aganist Tar Valon succesfull?

 

They captured 40 Aes Sedai and learned travelling. I wonder how many they lost?

Surely half of the elite soldiers, that might not have been a very big loss but the also lost like 30(?) To raken.

That might have been a bigger loss. I wonder how many damanae they lost?

 

Offcourse learning travelling made it all worth while, but had it been otherwise?

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Was the Seanchen raid aganist Tar Valon succesfull?

 

They captured 40 Aes Sedai and learned travelling. I wonder how many they lost?

Surely half of the elite soldiers, that might not have been a very big loss but the also lost like 30(?) To raken.

That might have been a bigger loss. I wonder how many damanae they lost?

 

Offcourse learning travelling made it all worth while, but had it been otherwise?

 

Tuon said that it would be worth loosing the entire raiding party if it gained Traveling for the Seanchan. She got her wish and managed to keep half the raiders and grab forty Aes Sedai in the bargain. I don't doubt she was doing cartwheels in her head when she got the news.

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Was the Seanchen raid aganist Tar Valon succesfull?

 

They captured 40 Aes Sedai and learned travelling. I wonder how many they lost?

Surely half of the elite soldiers, that might not have been a very big loss but the also lost like 30(?) To raken.

That might have been a bigger loss. I wonder how many damanae they lost?

 

Offcourse learning travelling made it all worth while, but had it been otherwise?

 

Tuon said that it would be worth loosing the entire raiding party if it gained Traveling for the Seanchan. She got her wish and managed to keep half the raiders and grab forty Aes Sedai in the bargain. I don't doubt she was doing cartwheels in her head when she got the news.

 

so was the purpose of the raid to learn travelling?

they got like 200 channelers from the shaido, 40 doesnt seem to many compared to that.

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so was the purpose of the raid to learn travelling?

they got like 200 channelers from the shaido, 40 doesnt seem to many compared to that.

 

Yes. Traveling and the supposed WMD that was set off in Altara. Though that last was in actuality an unanticipated result of Elayne unraveling her gateway.

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Was the Seanchen raid aganist Tar Valon succesfull?

 

They captured 40 Aes Sedai and learned travelling. I wonder how many they lost?

Surely half of the elite soldiers, that might not have been a very big loss but the also lost like 30(?) To raken.

That might have been a bigger loss. I wonder how many damanae they lost?

 

Offcourse learning travelling made it all worth while, but had it been otherwise?

 

Tuon said that it would be worth loosing the entire raiding party if it gained Traveling for the Seanchan. She got her wish and managed to keep half the raiders and grab forty Aes Sedai in the bargain. I don't doubt she was doing cartwheels in her head when she got the news.

 

so was the purpose of the raid to learn travelling?

they got like 200 channelers from the shaido, 40 doesnt seem to many compared to that.

 

It def can't be considered a huge success and not sure where the other poster got that "half" the raiding party made it back. The goal of the attack was to discover what the AS "super weapon" was. The Seanchan force consisted of 100 to'raken, a raken escort, and 300 troops(50 of those damane and 5 bloodknives). Out of those we know 30 to'raken were killed with all riders and passengers, the majority of the Fists of Heaven troops were destroyed, 10 damane killed, and the fate of the rest aside from some who returned remains mostly unknown. This goes against 300 AS, 40 initiates(a little over half which were actually AS, the rest novices and accepted) were taken and 20 AS killed. With the numbers being even for the most part I feel it was somewhat of a draw, maybe a slight edge to the Seanchan. I actually feel like they should have been able to do more against a split tower, weakened by the forsaken and BA, with Elaida at the helm. The Seanchan did gain channeling but the attack also served as a catalyst to reunite the Tower and root out the BA. I find it hard to believe that it will ever be that ripe for destruction again.

Edited by Suttree
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All they wanted was to learn travelling and get the super weapon..they got travelling and learnt that there was no super weapon. They got both objectives so I guess it was a success.

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I don't remember for sure but was Travelling a stated goal of the WT attack? I clearly remember in the initial planning it was all about the "super weapon" and when Tuon sees Travelling for herself she thinks...

 

ToM

"Fortuona covered her surprise. So it was true. Travelling wasn't a myth or rumour."

 

From that quote it sounds like she wasn't even sure it existed...

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I don't remember for sure but was Travelling a stated goal of the WT attack? I clearly remember in the initial planning it was all about the "super weapon" and when Tuon sees Travelling for herself she thinks...

 

ToM

"Fortuona covered her surprise. So it was true. Travelling wasn't a myth or rumour."

 

From that quote it sounds like she wasn't even sure it existed...

 

Objective or not, I would count learning your enemy's largest tactical advantage in Traveling would make that raid a big win for the Seanchan. Although I agree that I am surprised they were not able to do more damage considering the state of the WT at the time, even factoring in Egwene's heroics.

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It is part of TGS..chapter Gambits, Yulan speaking to Tuon on his plans

 

 

This wondrous ability they have to transport instantly from one place to another-if true- will prove a second technique of great tactical advantage we must capture.

 

 

The first thing they wanted was the super weapon.

Edited by XXX47
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Q&A with Brandon Sanderson:

 

Q: Do the Seanchan consider the raid on the White Tower a success?

A: Yes, they consider it a success, but they’re disappointed that they didn’t get their hands on the Aes Sedai superweapon.

 

Interestingly, that was asked before ToM i.e. before it was made known that the Seanchan had learned channeling from Elaida.

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Indeed, I think it was probably a more substantial success than they had anticipated and that had Egwene been bound by the three oaths - and she supposedly claimed she would act as if she was - then it would have been an even more overwhelming one (because then the three oaths would have interfered to a larger extent, at least until the warders attacked the seanchan when their lives would come under threat) and they would have already followed up by a larger attack (yes they are preparing one, but they would have already LAUNCHED one by now had their been less resistance last time).

Edited by Stitch
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The final, dis-positive answer:

 

Galgan was a valuable ally. He'd not only worked openly against Suroth, but had suggested the assault on the White Tower, which had gone well. Extremely well.

 

Doesn't seem to leave much room for interpretation.

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Guest PiotrekS

Especially considering that one channeler kidnapped from the White Tower is one less AS and one more damane, so even if they lost some damane, I daresay they still were very much on the positive side.

 

Their losses have been tolarable (major channeling force even was strenghtened a little, because it seems more probable they took more channelers than they lost damane) and at the same time, their major enemy is significantly weakened, they gained significant intelligence and were able to plant some blood knives inside the WT. Remember, if not for Gawyn, Egwene would be dead. And there's Traveling, the big bonus.

 

When you send a strike force deep into enemy territory (even to enemy's headquaters in their capital) with virtually no intelligence and no backup and some rumors that the enemy may have a superweapon, you are prepared that nobody would return. But the potential rewards were worth the risk and it definitely paid off.

 

Although, it might make Tuon too sure of herself. She might now deem Aes Sedai an easy target and try to finish them off with some overly risky attempt. Knowing RJ, Egwene's been preparing the Aes Sedai for the next attack night and day and the next battle will be a showpiece of masterful battle skills of the Aes Sedai and their new Amyrlin (sigh...)

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The Seanchan did gain channeling but the attack also served as a catalyst to reunite the Tower and root out the BA. I find it hard to believe that it will ever be that ripe for destruction again.

 

Right, but the Seanchan does not know about that.

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It was definitely a success, they did not anticipate getting traveling, not knowing it existed.

But they went in expecting a rout and it wasn't that.

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They didn't go in expecting a rout. They went in expecting to conduct a raid and get the hell out of Dodge. They only stayed as long as they did because the resistance was so pathetic. This is made explicitly clear in the text.

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What I find funny about the whole raid was that it was designed to weaken Rands bargain position with the Empire, to make him kneel. They believe the White Tower are his source of power. They act all high and mighty trying to pretend to be better knowing, when they in reality seems to be completely and utterly clueless, even the commoners seems to have more sense then the Seanchan :p

Edited by Manscher
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What I find funny about the whole raid was that it was designed to weaken Rands bargain position with the Empire, to make him kneel. They believe the White Tower are his source of power. They act all high and mighty trying to pretend to be better knowing, when they in reality seems to be completely and utterly clueless, even the commoners seems to have more sense then the Seanchan :p

The Seanchan have a ridiculously high opinion of themselves. Starting with High-lord Turak's contempt of the raiding party at his home, "The ever victorious" army crumbling when facing channelers, blood knives "invincibility", and down to Tuon's faith in signs and omens everywhere and complete disbelief of shadowspawn.

 

That said, the raid on the tower IS a success. If Damae learn Traveling it might really be the Ever victorious army.

Edited by LazyMonk
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What I find funny about the whole raid was that it was designed to weaken Rands bargain position with the Empire, to make him kneel. They believe the White Tower are his source of power. They act all high and mighty trying to pretend to be better knowing, when they in reality seems to be completely and utterly clueless, even the commoners seems to have more sense then the Seanchan :p

The Seanchan have a ridiculously high opinion of themselves. Starting with High-lord Turak's contempt of the raiding party at his home, "The ever victorious" army crumbling when facing channelers, blood knives "invincibility", and down to Tuon's faith in signs and omens everywhere and complete disbelief of shadowspawn.

 

That said, the raid on the tower IS a success. If Damae learn Traveling it might really be the Ever victorious army.

Not ridiculous. They've wiped out shadowspawn so long ago that they're only legends. The EVA has taken an entire freaking continent in a 800=-year long war and they've beaten the sea-folk as well. As Mat and Ituralde point out, they might lose individual battles when they come up against new weapons/ tactics, but they learn their lessons and institutionalise them, so as not to be caught twice. They had problems with Ashaman - first time they met them, the bloodknives did a fair job before a seriously crazy blademaster came through with a desperate tactic.

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Seachan is WWII Japan, terrible power. But ultimately they can only win if so long as the world is fighting DO, then it is a matter of if there is an America to step in when needed, note: Randland is Europe. Or if there is peace or some other Duex ex Machina

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The Sanchean now have the tools to collapse a gateway. They got superweapon

 

pretty sure they don't know how the superweapon was made, just that it wasn't an actual weapon.

 

Seachan is WWII Japan, terrible power. But ultimately they can only win if so long as the world is fighting DO, then it is a matter of if there is an America to step in when needed, note: Randland is Europe. Or if there is peace or some other Duex ex Machina

 

i wasn't aware the japanese were operating in europe during WW2....

Edited by Generic_Aelfinn_2
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They consider it a success (see quotes), and at least anticipated the possibility of acquiring travelling. However, they lost a significant number of their raiding party, and lost 10 damane. The capture of 40 initiates, (26 AS?) barely replaces their losses, since AS cannot channel to kill/harm without immediate threat and the student initiates are likely too weak for serious battle support: remember the Tower was supposedly weakening prior to the split with none(?) of the Accepted likely to test for the Shawl. I believe this was mentioned in tGH when supergirls were thought to bring about a resurgence...

 

Secondly, the Seanchan are now overconfident, but we know this because of our relative omnipotence. As Manscher and others suggest, the Seanchan appear clueless as to what has happened following their raid, as though the White Tower is just licking it's wounds instead of doubling in strength and the Bloodknives killing all of 5(?) AS.

 

I can see serious repercussions for any further raid on the WT, I'm thinking Logain might begin his Glory Run here by breaking the back of the Seanchan with new improved Saidin/Saidar linking!

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I kind of wonder why no one is counting the warders and guardsman who were also killed in the battle.

 

they're really not that important - especially in large conflicts. As much as the Tower Guard like to think of themselves as an elite formation...they really haven't done anything...ever.

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