Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Recommended Posts

  • 4 months later...
  • Replies 111
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I believe the sharpened teethed people are from shara. We know very little about shara, and i believe somewhere it says their faces are hidden. Additionally, people can not venture into shara unless they are from shara. The pointed teeth people could be the cause of the prevention, or all sharans could have the pointed teeth, which would explain the vieling of the sharans.

Yeah, but it would be quite strangegiven the large distance between them and the Blight..

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought they were from the city in the blight.

 

And it is explicitly stated that they are not Aiel by the POV character. First he assumes they're Fades because of their "sleek grace" then he believes they're Aiel because of their red veils. Then he admits that he was wrong about them being Aiel as well.

 

Aiel don't wear red veils. Also, they have dark eyes while most Aiel have light eyes. They kill him with a knife instead of with the One Power. Thus, they are not Aiel. They have no connection to Aiel. They're not Aiel channelers gone to kill the Dark One. They are soldiers of the city in the blight out on patrol.

Possible theory ahd forgotten all about the city in the Blight so yes it could be a mix or something or just corrupted men who live in Blight nc idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They could be turned or renegade Aiel channelers. Blank = Dark Aiel clan in the Blight. That does seem the likeliest explanation, given that RJ mentioned what Aiel male channelers do and some of them may be captured alive and their descendents brainwashed.

Edit: Dark eyes/ hair is not a big deal. Most Borderlanders have dark eyes/ hair and if fair hair/ blue eyes mates with dark hair eyes, the dark gene generally passes on. Borderlanders are the most likely bunch to have women captured. Edit ends.

They might also be descendants of dreadlords from the Trolloc Wars. Again mentioned - Ishy did put together a bunch of male channelers. Perhaps he also had the Black sisters out looking for them.

They are probably not Sharans = the Sharans kill their male channelers at age 20, or so.

They are not probably Isle of Madman types - the isle is mentioned in passing only in the BWB and never comes into the WoT novels. It would be a clumsy literary device introducing them now.

They may be some breed of improved Fade - farfetched but somehow bred true and capable of using TP perhaps? But then for some reason, they're not using swords and they're vieled

Yeah, have been thinking about it all these things are posible i guess we will find out in 'A memory of light'..

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how anyone can disagree with the theory that these are Aiel captured and 13x13'd. The only problem with the theory that I can see is that it might seem too obvious. The fact that the char with the PoV didn't think they were Aiel, and the fact that the merchant was killed with a knife, none of these speak of the necessity of these men being something other than Aiel.

Alright then we cnclude that they are Aiel belonging to a Dark Aiel clan in the Blight!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also wondered if they were connected with the S & Fs. In one of his encounters with them, Mat sees out of a window a strange triple spire - but we've only seen two stone doorways (I exclude the ToG which seems to be an HQ). And we are told that there's a {blank} in the Blight.. I wondered if that was a third doorway, and the red-veils are Blighted 'finns..

Link to post
Share on other sites

They could be turned or renegade Aiel channelers. Blank = Dark Aiel clan in the Blight. That does seem the likeliest explanation, given that RJ mentioned what Aiel male channelers do and some of them may be captured alive and their descendents brainwashed.

Edit: Dark eyes/ hair is not a big deal. Most Borderlanders have dark eyes/ hair and if fair hair/ blue eyes mates with dark hair eyes, the dark gene generally passes on. Borderlanders are the most likely bunch to have women captured. Edit ends.

They might also be descendants of dreadlords from the Trolloc Wars. Again mentioned - Ishy did put together a bunch of male channelers. Perhaps he also had the Black sisters out looking for them.

They are probably not Sharans = the Sharans kill their male channelers at age 20, or so.

They are not probably Isle of Madman types - the isle is mentioned in passing only in the BWB and never comes into the WoT novels. It would be a clumsy literary device introducing them now.

They may be some breed of improved Fade - farfetched but somehow bred true and capable of using TP perhaps? But then for some reason, they're not using swords and they're vieled

 

COULD be Aiel brainwashed male channelers, but I doubt it. I also dont think they are simply Aiel or not Darkfriends. Forgot, the Sharans' way of thinking about the OP, you are right, it cant be them either... But, I thought of another possibility because of Durinax comment about souls.. What if they are simply a new breed of Gray Men? I hadnt thought of the possibility of being a city in the Blight, I guess we ll just have to wait and see.

One attribute of Gray men is that nobody notices them, even in plain view. Clearly not the case here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does anybody think they're channelers or have anything to do with channelers at all? We don't see them channel, or really see anything at all about them aside from them killing that merchant. As far as the Aiel connection, they have spears and veils, and that's about as far as the similarity goes. Ebu Dari men wear veils dangling from their mustaches, and I'm sure some of their infantry use spears, that doesn't make them Aiel. Where's their cadin'sor? Where do they mention Wise Ones, or septs, societies, clans or holds, or any of the other numerous things that could uniquely tie them to Aiel culture?

 

The simple fact is, there's not enough evidence to determine where these red-veiled fellers are from. Both Shara and the rumored city in the Blight seem like good candidates, though I could swear I remember reading somewhere that RJ said Shara wouldn't play a part in the LB. Both turned male Aiel channelers or a whole Aiel clan devoted to the Dark seem like a stretch. There are no Aiel rumors of such a clan, nor rumors of those who've gone to "spit in Sightblinder's eye" who have returned fighting on His side.

 

I think the whole mystery of these red-veiled individuals is gonna have to be a RAFO.

Edited by Thrasymachus
Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does anybody think they're channelers or have anything to do with channelers at all? We don't see them channel, or really see anything at all about them aside from them killing that merchant. As far as the Aiel connection, they have spears and veils, and that's about as far as the similarity goes. Ebu Dari men wear veils dangling from their mustaches, and I'm sure some of their infantry use spears, that doesn't make them Aiel. Where's their cadin'sor? Where do they mention Wise Ones, or septs, societies, clans or holds, or any of the other numerous things that could uniquely tie them to Aiel culture?

 

The simple fact is, there's not enough evidence to determine where these red-veiled fellers are from. Both Shara and the rumored city in the Blight seem like good candidates, though I could swear I remember reading somewhere that RJ said Shara wouldn't play a part in the LB. Both turned male Aiel channelers or a whole Aiel clan devoted to the Dark seem like a stretch. There are no Aiel rumors of such a clan, nor rumors of those who've gone to "spit in Sightblinder's eye" who have returned fighting on His side.

 

I think the whole mystery of these red-veiled individuals is gonna have to be a RAFO.

1) the merchant likely knew very little of the Aiel

2) why would the DO send such valuable and rare people on unimportant missions

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does anybody think they're channelers or have anything to do with channelers at all? We don't see them channel, or really see anything at all about them aside from them killing that merchant.

 

There are a number of reasons why people think they are channelers. First, the eyes. Seems a bit similar to the turned Asha'man we see with the dead looking eyes.

 

Second, the very malicious evil-ness they exhibit. From what RJ told us about 13x13, anybody turned that way would have their soul twisted and warped ... irreversably evil. Sounds like the kind of person who would like to walk up to a helpless victim and get their hands bloody. Up close and personal. Especially if they were denied direct participation in a recent battle.

 

Third, there are scenes in the book where an unknown force of male channelers are working for the shadow. The destruction of the walls of the borderlander city. The portal stone bringing in the shadowspawn to attack Perrin. In the case of the portal stone, this is a skill that nobody on the light side has. Yes, Rand can use a portal stone, but uses massive amounts of the power to do it. According to Perrin's Asha'man, the men using the stone aren't using a lot of the power. That skill must have come from one of the Forsaken. It could be dark Asha'man, but it seems doubtful to me that the Shadow would deploy darkfriend Asha'man to a place where regular Asha'man are, at least before the final battle.

 

Fourth, location. This little band of creepy Aiel are roaming the borderlands, very near a city that has just been destroyed. It's probably safe to say that the battle that we did get to see was a model for what happened all along the blight border. Male channelers blowing up the wall. Coincidence that they were nearby? Perhaps ... but I doubt it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1) the merchant likely knew very little of the Aiel

2) why would the DO send such valuable and rare people on unimportant missions

 

I'm not sure that Aiel male channelers could be considered rare or valuable - the majority of the male Aiel channeling population have been going on suicide missions into the Blight for Light knows how long. As for their value, I suppose if there were someone to teach them, sure, but unless there's a Taim somewhere out there, it seems improbable that they've anything more than self-taught channeling, which is dicy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm reading book 4 again (Mat's trip to Rhiudean) and the fox-finns have sharpened teeth as well.

Impossible.

 

1.) The Aeilfinn and the Eilfinn (or whatever :D ) cant get out of their tower.

 

2.) They dont use steel, cause they cant, they are afraid of it and it hurts them.

 

3.) How could the DO have caught them..He has no ter'angreal that would lead him to their cave.

 

4.) Also, in Mat's trip to the tower (SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER! ) where he went to save Moiraine with Thom and Jain Farstrider, there was no mention of foxes or snakes having an evil attitude. (Evil as the DO at least.) So, we see no signs of his influence there.

 

:)

 

It's not steel, it's iron

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want an actual nod to vampires on WOT, look at the draghkar.

 

Actually, I always thought the Myrdraal had quite a few traits of vampires as well.

 

Only if you associate the pale skin only with vmapires. That is the only thing even remotely vampire like about them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does anybody think they're channelers or have anything to do with channelers at all? We don't see them channel, or really see anything at all about them aside from them killing that merchant.

 

There are a number of reasons why people think they are channelers. First, the eyes. Seems a bit similar to the turned Asha'man we see with the dead looking eyes.

 

Second, the very malicious evil-ness they exhibit. From what RJ told us about 13x13, anybody turned that way would have their soul twisted and warped ... irreversably evil. Sounds like the kind of person who would like to walk up to a helpless victim and get their hands bloody. Up close and personal. Especially if they were denied direct participation in a recent battle.

 

Third, there are scenes in the book where an unknown force of male channelers are working for the shadow. The destruction of the walls of the borderlander city. The portal stone bringing in the shadowspawn to attack Perrin. In the case of the portal stone, this is a skill that nobody on the light side has. Yes, Rand can use a portal stone, but uses massive amounts of the power to do it. According to Perrin's Asha'man, the men using the stone aren't using a lot of the power. That skill must have come from one of the Forsaken. It could be dark Asha'man, but it seems doubtful to me that the Shadow would deploy darkfriend Asha'man to a place where regular Asha'man are, at least before the final battle.

 

Fourth, location. This little band of creepy Aiel are roaming the borderlands, very near a city that has just been destroyed. It's probably safe to say that the battle that we did get to see was a model for what happened all along the blight border. Male channelers blowing up the wall. Coincidence that they were nearby? Perhaps ... but I doubt it.

 

There is not reason. We only saw one up close with dark eyes. No channeling or evident.

 

2. Means nothing. Plenty of cruel people in the series. Even those on the light side of things. Obviously guys helping trollocs might be a bit warped.

 

3. Could have been Asha'man darkfriends. Clearly, it seems that people are learning to fast are agents and likely masking their powers until end game. Likely a secret channeling group before hand.

 

4. With traveling people channlers can be anywhere... location means nothing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If they are aiel men who go into blight because they can channel it doesnt necessarily mean they would channel to kill the mechant or whoever it was ...remember nyneave didn't realise she was channeling when healing people or egwene in her acceptance test was doing the same thing maybe when they fight sub-consciously the power helps then

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the sharpened teethed people are from shara. We know very little about shara, and i believe somewhere it says their faces are hidden. Additionally, people can not venture into shara unless they are from shara. The pointed teeth people could be the cause of the prevention, or all sharans could have the pointed teeth, which would explain the vieling of the sharans.

Yeah, but it would be quite strangegiven the large distance between them and the Blight..

 

Travelling, Waygates (being capable of use by Dark forces) and Portal Stones mean that distance isn't the factor it once was...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Second, the very malicious evil-ness they exhibit. From what RJ told us about 13x13, anybody turned that way would have their soul twisted and warped ... irreversably evil. Sounds like the kind of person who would like to walk up to a helpless victim and get their hands bloody. Up close and personal. Especially if they were denied direct participation in a recent battle.

 

I don't think that's the case for a couple of reasons:

 

1) I'm sure there's a line somewhere that states no man/person can be so deep in the shadow that they can't be turned to the light. Might have been mentioned more than once.

 

2) If Logain's been turned by force (seeing as he's missing, presumed Taimed, at the moment) then he'll need to be capable of being turned back in order to achieve the glory Min spoke of, surely?

Edited by Number13
Link to post
Share on other sites

Second, the very malicious evil-ness they exhibit. From what RJ told us about 13x13, anybody turned that way would have their soul twisted and warped ... irreversably evil. Sounds like the kind of person who would like to walk up to a helpless victim and get their hands bloody. Up close and personal. Especially if they were denied direct participation in a recent battle.

 

I don't think that's the case for a couple of reasons:

 

1) I'm sure there's a line somewhere that states no man/person can be so deep in the shadow that they can't be turned to the light. Might have been mentioned more than once.

 

2) If Logain's been turned by force (seeing as he's missing, presumed Taimed, at the moment) then he'll need to be capable of being turned back in order to achieve the glory Min spoke of, surely?

 

Possible maybe but very unlikely...

 

Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.

 

As for Logain I don't think all that many people believe he has been turned.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Second, the very malicious evil-ness they exhibit. From what RJ told us about 13x13, anybody turned that way would have their soul twisted and warped ... irreversably evil. Sounds like the kind of person who would like to walk up to a helpless victim and get their hands bloody. Up close and personal. Especially if they were denied direct participation in a recent battle.

 

I don't think that's the case for a couple of reasons:

 

1) I'm sure there's a line somewhere that states no man/person can be so deep in the shadow that they can't be turned to the light. Might have been mentioned more than once.

 

2) If Logain's been turned by force (seeing as he's missing, presumed Taimed, at the moment) then he'll need to be capable of being turned back in order to achieve the glory Min spoke of, surely?

 

Possible maybe but very unlikely...

 

Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.

 

As for Logain I don't think all that many people believe he has been turned.

 

 

Hmm, I wonder what happens if a turned channeller is stilled. Does it break the connection/control and let them revert?

 

I bet if anyone can do it, Nynaeve can :nynaeve:

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hmm, I wonder what happens if a turned channeller is stilled. Does it break the connection/control and let them revert?

 

I bet if anyone can do it, Nynaeve can :nynaeve:

 

If I had to put my money on anyone it would be Rand :rand: . His strange new powers (if they can be called that) really seem to affect people and make them better people. I'm thinking of the scene in Bandar Eban. Besides it feels like this turning to the shadow is more to do with the soul ("the eyes are the window to the soul", or something similar at least, and the eyes of those turned are definitely distinctive), than the body or the mind, which admitidly would be perfect for Nyneave since she's pretty good in both those areas now.

 

Third, there are scenes in the book where an unknown force of male channelers are working for the shadow. The destruction of the walls of the borderlander city. The portal stone bringing in the shadowspawn to attack Perrin. In the case of the portal stone, this is a skill that nobody on the light side has. Yes, Rand can use a portal stone, but uses massive amounts of the power to do it. According to Perrin's Asha'man, the men using the stone aren't using a lot of the power. That skill must have come from one of the Forsaken. It could be dark Asha'man, but it seems doubtful to me that the Shadow would deploy darkfriend Asha'man to a place where regular Asha'man are, at least before the final battle.

 

Rand was transporting quite a few people though when he used the portal stones. That's why he used massive amounts of the power.

Edited by Master Ablar
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can wrap my mind about the evil Aiel part because of the veils and spears, but what makes people think they are dark channelers? The merchant wasn't held still by bonds of air, the ground didn't erupt, and he wasn't burned by fire etc... He was killed with a knife. A regular knife. Doesn't make sense to introduce Aiel dark channelers and have them NOT channel.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...