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What you dislike most about the series?

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Yeah, if you think Robert Jordan overdid the description it's nothing compared to Gormenghast. But the way Peake used language and description was much more effective, and it never felt like padding, at least to me. The incredibly gothic world demanded that level of detail and since the first two books take place almost exclusively within the same castle it really works well.

 

But I could gush for hours on why I think Gormenghast is the greatest thing ever and I have no desire to derail the topic so I'll just say that it's worth a try if you enjoyed WoT.

 

Ah, Gormenghast! I read Peake's magnificent trilogy when I was 19, at least 7 years before I ever touched WOT. A good reminder that for all of Jordan's qualities, he is far from being the greatest fantasy writer.

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How else should RJ put it? "Nynaeve folds her arms beneath her chesticles?"

lol actually ALL you have to say is "she folded her arms" or "she crossed her arms". we KNOW where it was in relation to her breasts! you don't say "he sat down on his buttocks" or "he folded his hands near his penis" do you? I guarantee you you don't! to me it just seemed like a poor way of forcing a contrived sensuality into the writing that didn't really belong

 

Is everything to do with sexuality--or even "sexual" anatomy--then automatically a commercial consideration? I wish, for reasons of art and verisimilitude, that there was much more sex in WOT; it would reduce the sense of juvenalia.

 

Man, I hate prudes.

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Let's see:

 

Seanchan

Mat

Sea folk

Eggy

Aiel

rampant misandry

lack of screen time for the Borderlanders and Ogier

 

All in all, it's still probably the best fantasy series I've ever read.

 

I agree about the Seanchan, Sea Folk, and Mat--I thought I was the only one who finds him annoying rather than supercool.

 

As for it being the best fantasy series you've read ... you need to get out more.

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Yeah, if you think Robert Jordan overdid the description it's nothing compared to Gormenghast. But the way Peake used language and description was much more effective, and it never felt like padding, at least to me. The incredibly gothic world demanded that level of detail and since the first two books take place almost exclusively within the same castle it really works well.

 

But I could gush for hours on why I think Gormenghast is the greatest thing ever and I have no desire to derail the topic so I'll just say that it's worth a try if you enjoyed WoT.

 

Ah, Gormenghast! I read Peake's magnificent trilogy when I was 19, at least 7 years before I ever touched WOT. A good reminder that for all of Jordan's qualities, he is far from being the greatest fantasy writer.

 

 

In the last 30 years, I have read over 1000 books, and I have never ever before in my life have even heard of Peake and Gormenghast. So, if he is such an awesome writer, and that is such a great trilogy, then why is it such an unknown piece of work to anyone like myself?

 

Let's see:

 

Seanchan

Mat

Sea folk

Eggy

Aiel

rampant misandry

lack of screen time for the Borderlanders and Ogier

 

All in all, it's still probably the best fantasy series I've ever read.

 

 

 

I agree about the Seanchan, Sea Folk, and Mat--I thought I was the only one who finds him annoying rather than supercool.

 

As for it being the best fantasy series you've read ... you need to get out more.

 

 

 

You need to stop being an arse and stop being so judgmental of someone else's opinions.

 

 

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In the last 30 years, I have read over 1000 books, and I have never ever before in my life have even heard of Peake and Gormenghast. So, if he is such an awesome writer, and that is such a great trilogy, then why is it such an unknown piece of work to anyone like myself?

 

Gormenghast is quite epic and different. It came out awhile before fantasy took off, and that's why you may not have heard of it. Give it a try. Peake is well known as a poet, as a writer not so much.

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Yeah, if you think Robert Jordan overdid the description it's nothing compared to Gormenghast. But the way Peake used language and description was much more effective, and it never felt like padding, at least to me. The incredibly gothic world demanded that level of detail and since the first two books take place almost exclusively within the same castle it really works well.

 

But I could gush for hours on why I think Gormenghast is the greatest thing ever and I have no desire to derail the topic so I'll just say that it's worth a try if you enjoyed WoT.

 

Ah, Gormenghast! I read Peake's magnificent trilogy when I was 19, at least 7 years before I ever touched WOT. A good reminder that for all of Jordan's qualities, he is far from being the greatest fantasy writer.

 

 

In the last 30 years, I have read over 1000 books, and I have never ever before in my life have even heard of Peake and Gormenghast. So, if he is such an awesome writer, and that is such a great trilogy, then why is it such an unknown piece of work to anyone like myself?

 

Let's see:

 

Seanchan

Mat

Sea folk

Eggy

Aiel

rampant misandry

lack of screen time for the Borderlanders and Ogier

 

All in all, it's still probably the best fantasy series I've ever read.

 

 

 

I agree about the Seanchan, Sea Folk, and Mat--I thought I was the only one who finds him annoying rather than supercool.

 

As for it being the best fantasy series you've read ... you need to get out more.

 

 

 

You need to stop being an arse and stop being so judgmental of someone else's opinions.

 

You don't see the irony in questioning his praise(opinion) for Gormenghast and then in the same post telling him to stop being too judgmental?

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If you don't see the differences between asking someone a question and him telling someone that "you need to get out more", then there really is not anything that I can say to you that would explain something as simple those differences to you.

Rulius was polite and kind enough to briefly explain why I probably have never heard of Peake's work, and since that epic story is more than a few decades old, being published in 1946, 1950, and 1959. Therefore, it is clearly obvious that it is likely the vast majority of fantasy readers have probably never read Gormenghast. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gormenghast_(series)

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Rulius was polite and kind enough to briefly explain why I probably have never heard of Peake's work, and since that epic story is more than a few decades old, being published in 1946, 1950, and 1959. Therefore, it is clearly obvious that it is likely the vast majority of fantasy readers have probably never read Gormenghast.

 

Just asking? You weren't calling the validity of his opinion into question at all then? My mistake I guess. Although starting with "if he is such an awesome writer" I think you can understand why. Not sure why you would think you not having read something would have any bearing on the quality of the work though?

 

As for Peake it was published in the 50s...just like Lord of the Rings. Clearly obvious the "vast majority" of fantasy readers haven't read Gormenghast then.

Edited by Suttree

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Dude, you need a reality check if you think that series is even 1/3 as popular and read by as many people as was the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

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Dude, you need a reality check if you think that series is even 1/3 as popular and read by as many people as was the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

Didn't say anything of the sort. Just thought it was quite odd that you would use when it was published to make a conclusion on the "vast majority" not having read Gormenghast. Or even better questioning the quality of the work because you hadn't heard of it.

 

As for me I thought the first two books were quite well done...third not so much. His descriptive style along with dark, surrealist influences really make it unique.

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Dude, you need a reality check if you think that series is even 1/3 as popular and read by as many people as was the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

Didn't say anything of the sort. Just thought it was quite odd that you would use when it was published to make a conclusion on the "vast majority" not having read Gormenghast. Or even better questioning the quality of the work because you hadn't heard of it.

 

As for me I thought the first two books were quite well done...third not so much. His descriptive style along with dark, surrealist influences really make it unique.

 

So, you were one of the small percentage of fantasy readers that are still alive today whom have read Peake's books. Congrats. smile.gif

As to why I think I am qualified to determine whether or not a series is better than the WOT? Well, because I have been reading fantasy books for 30 years.. and because I have read books from several other genres, then it is safe for me to believe that if I have not heard of a fantasy book series, then the probability is very high that it ain't as good as Robert Jordan's WOT series.

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Dude, you need a reality check if you think that series is even 1/3 as popular and read by as many people as was the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

Didn't say anything of the sort. Just thought it was quite odd that you would use when it was published to make a conclusion on the "vast majority" not having read Gormenghast. Or even better questioning the quality of the work because you hadn't heard of it.

 

As for me I thought the first two books were quite well done...third not so much. His descriptive style along with dark, surrealist influences really make it unique.

 

So, you were one of the small percentage of fantasy readers that are still alive today whom have read Peake's books. Congrats. smile.gif

As to why I think I am qualified to determine whether or not a series is better than the WOT? Well, because I have been reading fantasy books for 30 years.. and because I have read books from several other genres, then it is safe for me to believe that if I have not heard of a fantasy book series, then the probability is very high that it ain't as good as Robert Jordan's WOT series.

 

Not to embroil myself in this little spat, but omniscience isn't a byproduct of prolonged exposure. Even extremely credible experts in a field will still occassionally be caught off guard by the discovery of someone else new to his/her field. Also, popularity doesn't dictate quality of a work of art, and in fact attempting to create any system which can objectively quantify the level of quality of any work of art is an effort in futility. That's what makes appreciating and discussing art so much fun, it's meant to be subjective, and anyone can draw whatever conclusions they want as to whether they like it or not.

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Dude, you need a reality check if you think that series is even 1/3 as popular and read by as many people as was the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

Didn't say anything of the sort. Just thought it was quite odd that you would use when it was published to make a conclusion on the "vast majority" not having read Gormenghast. Or even better questioning the quality of the work because you hadn't heard of it.

 

As for me I thought the first two books were quite well done...third not so much. His descriptive style along with dark, surrealist influences really make it unique.

 

So, you were one of the small percentage of fantasy readers that are still alive today whom have read Peake's books. Congrats. smile.gif

As to why I think I am qualified to determine whether or not a series is better than the WOT? Well, because I have been reading fantasy books for 30 years.. and because I have read books from several other genres, then it is safe for me to believe that if I have not heard of a fantasy book series, then the probability is very high that it ain't as good as Robert Jordan's WOT series.

 

Yup still alive at grand old 27.

 

As for any comparisons between Peake and RJ did I ask if it was better than WoT? Two posters put forth that they "thought" Peake was more talented in some areas. You jumped in with a very peevish sounding response calling Joshua's opinion into question...and then told him to stop being judgmental about someone else's opinion. Somewhat ironic that.

 

Also just as a general rule of thumb, unless you are comfortable being a total fanboi you might actually you know READ a book before trying to make some sort of judgement on how it stands in relation to the WoT.

Edited by Suttree

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Not to mention the fact that bragging about an average of 33 books read each year is rather sad. There were times in my life when I read several a week; I'm still at more than 1 a week, even with a stressful job and a family.

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Not to mention the fact that bragging about an average of 33 books read each year is rather sad. There were times in my life when I read several a week; I'm still at more than 1 a week, even with a stressful job and a family.

 

I once read 33 Goosebumps books in one year and I will brag day and night about that.

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Because popularity = quality. Got it.

 

I assume you are a huge fan of Stephanie Meyer?

 

No, but at least I have heard of the crap and drivel that she writes.

 

Until several hours ago, I have never before even heard of Peake's apparently magnificent epic.

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Dude, you need a reality check if you think that series is even 1/3 as popular and read by as many people as was the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

Didn't say anything of the sort. Just thought it was quite odd that you would use when it was published to make a conclusion on the "vast majority" not having read Gormenghast. Or even better questioning the quality of the work because you hadn't heard of it.

 

As for me I thought the first two books were quite well done...third not so much. His descriptive style along with dark, surrealist influences really make it unique.

 

So, you were one of the small percentage of fantasy readers that are still alive today whom have read Peake's books. Congrats. smile.gif

As to why I think I am qualified to determine whether or not a series is better than the WOT? Well, because I have been reading fantasy books for 30 years.. and because I have read books from several other genres, then it is safe for me to believe that if I have not heard of a fantasy book series, then the probability is very high that it ain't as good as Robert Jordan's WOT series.

 

Yup still alive at grand old 27.

 

As for any comparisons between Peake and RJ did I ask if it was better than WoT? Two posters put forth that they "thought" Peake was more talented in some areas. You jumped in with a very peevish sounding response calling Joshua's opinion into question...and then told him to stop being judgmental about someone else's opinion. Somewhat ironic that.

 

Also just as a general rule of thumb, unless you are comfortable being a total fanboi you might actually you know READ a book before trying to make some sort of judgement on how it stands in relation to the WoT.

 

My response to Joshua was because he insulted another poster. Clearly, you are unable to see that. How sad that you cannot see or understand that.

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Not to mention the fact that bragging about an average of 33 books read each year is rather sad. There were times in my life when I read several a week; I'm still at more than 1 a week, even with a stressful job and a family.

 

It ain't bragging if it is the truth. How sad that you think you have the right to judge me. I am not judging you.

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Ugh can we ease up on the condescension just a tad?! Anyways I don't even know why I'm posting in this thread, this site's purpose is for fans of the world RJ created to gather and share their enjoyment of one of the best epic fantasy series I've ever read, and discuss possible theories and whatnot. And yet, more threads are devoted to what's wrong with the series than most topics I've seen addressed. If there's so much wrong with this series, why even discuss it and criticize it when you can move on to the next book/series? It's not like anyone is paying you for your flaming criticisms.

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Not to mention the fact that bragging about an average of 33 books read each year is rather sad. There were times in my life when I read several a week; I'm still at more than 1 a week, even with a stressful job and a family.

 

It ain't bragging if it is the truth. How sad that you think you have the right to judge me. I am not judging you.

 

The point is that it isn't a large number. It ain't bragging if it is ...not impressive.

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Ugh can we ease up on the condescension just a tad?! Anyways I don't even know why I'm posting in this thread, this site's purpose is for fans of the world RJ created to gather and share their enjoyment of one of the best epic fantasy series I've ever read, and discuss possible theories and whatnot. And yet, more threads are devoted to what's wrong with the series than most topics I've seen addressed. If there's so much wrong with this series, why even discuss it and criticize it when you can move on to the next book/series? It's not like anyone is paying you for your flaming criticisms.

 

I wish the site had a "like" option. Or a "read this first before you do anything else" option - I would choose yours in a heartbeat. I find it rather ridiculous that most of the threads on DM are devoted to ripping apart characters, plot lines and the authors.

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Ugh can we ease up on the condescension just a tad?! Anyways I don't even know why I'm posting in this thread, this site's purpose is for fans of the world RJ created to gather and share their enjoyment of one of the best epic fantasy series I've ever read, and discuss possible theories and whatnot. And yet, more threads are devoted to what's wrong with the series than most topics I've seen addressed. If there's so much wrong with this series, why even discuss it and criticize it when you can move on to the next book/series? It's not like anyone is paying you for your flaming criticisms.

 

I wish the site had a "like" option. Or a "read this first before you do anything else" option - I would choose yours in a heartbeat. I find it rather ridiculous that most of the threads on DM are devoted to ripping apart characters, plot lines and the authors.

 

Welcome to the Internet...

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Rulius was polite and kind enough to briefly explain why I probably have never heard of Peake's work, and since that epic story is more than a few decades old, being published in 1946, 1950, and 1959. Therefore, it is clearly obvious that it is likely the vast majority of fantasy readers have probably never read Gormenghast. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gormenghast_(series)

I don't know if that really follows. After all, Gormenghast remains in print, local bookshops will often have copies, it's not like it's an obscure, hard to get hold of title. Gollancz's Fantasy masterworks series claims the books in the series are the ones that along with Tolkien and Peake, shaped modern fantasy. The announcement of a new Gormenghast title was reported in the newspapers, that sort of thing tends not to happen to authors no-one has heard of - it happens when you're sufficiently well known by the mainstream for the press to report on you.

 

 

As to why I think I am qualified to determine whether or not a series is better than the WOT? Well, because I have been reading fantasy books for 30 years.. and because I have read books from several other genres, then it is safe for me to believe that if I have not heard of a fantasy book series, then the probability is very high that it ain't as good as Robert Jordan's WOT series.

Really? If I haven't heard of a series, I don't take that as any comment on its quality - after all, it is quite possible for obscure works to be good.

 

But then, for me it's less of an issue because I've read everything, man,

I've read everything, man

Read about the deserts bare, man,

while I breathed the mountain air, man,

Of books I've had my share man,

I've read everything,

I've read Donaldson and Buther, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Rice, Dickens, Austen, Peake, Tolkien, Vance, Smith, Lovecraft, Howard, Fallon, Jordan, Sanderson, Martin, Joyce, Gaiman, Pratchett, Holt, Brown, Richards, Abnett, King, Moorcock, Abercombie, Bakker, McCaffrey, Abraham, le Guin, Fuller, Fraser, MacDonald, Lieber, Zusak, Wooding, Banks, Morgan, Huston, Hutson, Hart, Dicks, Brooks, Dick, Herbert, Anderson, Guderian, Iggulden, Gardner, Smith, Adams, Mieville, Swainston, Rankin, Clarke, Reynolds, Asimov, Aldiss, Swanwick

I've read everything, man.

 

 

Not to mention the fact that bragging about an average of 33 books read each year is rather sad. There were times in my life when I read several a week; I'm still at more than 1 a week, even with a stressful job and a family.

I once read 33 Goosebumps books in one year and I will brag day and night about that.
Glutton for punishment, are you? Most people would have found the pain too much long before.

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