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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Day that dawns twice


ironisles
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I am reading TGH, and am on the part where Rand meets Thom again..Thom recited some prophecy. Could the part with the day with two dawns be referring to an eclipse of the Sun?

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The sun never shines at Shayol Ghul. By defeating the Dark One, Rand will allow the sun to shine through there once again, leading to the day 'dawning twice'.

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The Dragon (Reborn) is the Lord of the Morning; the Prince of the Dawn.

 

What I think will happen during Tarmon Gaidon is the following:

At one point, Mat will blow the Horn of Valere and -much like what we saw at the end of TGH- that will mix Tel'aran'rhiod & the Real World.

But this time Mat doesn't blow it just anywhere (like near Falme), but he'll blow it as a last ditch effort at (or near) Shayol Ghul. That way, what Verin described as a paradox back in TDR (see the Chapter 'A Matter of Thought' (how fitting!)) won't be a paradox at all since all the worlds are one, so if the DO wins right there, the DO is freed in all worlds since TAR is part (and/or surrounding) all the worlds.

 

It also makes sure that the Last Battle between Shai'tan & the Dragon -again much like the TGH fight- will be a battle of willpower mostly.

A battle of Mind over Matter, since in TAR ' thought' is 'Matter' (see previously mentioned chapter name). Normally, Shayol Ghul can't be reached in TAR -due to Shai'tans influence-, but because the Horn is blown at the weak spot, it now can be reached.

 

"Thought is the arrow of Time and Memory never fades".

So when the Dragon is nearly deafeated and is being swallowed by the 'infinite maw' he will have a Memory of Light (since memory is the one thing that never fades). And through his sheer strong stubborn willpower, the Dragon wills the sun to Dawn in TAR right at the Heart of the Dark, fullfilling prophecy of having the Sun dawn twice*. Once that morning in the Real World and once later in the day in a mix of TAR and the Real World moments before the Shadow swallows all. He will remember Light in the one spot where there is none and will hope for salvation and Rebirth.

 

I think that's how he will defeat Shai'tan. The Dragon will once again bind the Soul of Shadow inside his own Soul by envelopping Darkness/Nothingness with the Light of the dawning Sun. Binding Shai'tan as it was once designed by the Creator; The strongest of Souls binding the seed of Chaos/Nothingness inside somehting evil cannot touch -a pure Soul-, through sacrificing that Soul and hoping for nothing but salvation and rebirth (the strongest oath).

 

The weak spot will disapear from the woven Pattern because the Dragon dies and Shai'tan is bound inside the Dragon Soul in the 'soulpool'.

The weak spot in the Pattern will only re-appear each time the Dragon is spun out and woven into the Pattern, making the saying that about the Dragon bringing the Dark One more then half right; the Soul of the Dragon that is woven in the Pattern IS the weak spot.

 

 

It's why Shai'tan needs the Dragon (Soul) in the right circumstances to be able to break the Wheel of Time. Ironically, the circumstances for Shai'tan to break free are the exact same circumstances that the Dragon needs to be able to re-seal Shai'tan the proper way (as described above).

 

Amen.

 

"Let the Prince of the Dawn ride again on the Winds of Time!"

 

Cheerio,

Mik

 

 

*It's noteworthy that we've never seen a dawn -nor dusk- in TAR before, I think.

Through the Dragon we will see the first Dawn in the Unseen World.

Edited by Mik
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This is one of the most frustrating things, seeing how people don't understand this.

Twice Dawns the Day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, Once for Birth....

 

Well, the Aiel is his blood. Their blood was shed when he was born -- aka -- the blood snow when he was born on dragonmount.

 

The second time their blood will be shed is at his death, or shortly thereafter where they all go to Tar'mon Gaiden.

 

 

It really is a simple prophecy once you look at it correctly.

Twice dawns the day (i.e. two separate and distinct days) when his blood(Aiel) is shed, once for mourning(Tar'mon Gaiden), Once for birth(blood snows).

Edited by spoke
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Well, I came up with the theory that it will be Dragonmount erupting that causes the day to "dawn twice". A massive eruption that will pretty much make Dragonmount explode. And I still see that as a viable possibility. It would make a nice parallell - Dragonmount was created when LTT died, and then destroyed when Rand dies (and comes back to life).

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At this point death then resurrection seems to be the most reasonable (and maybe also most probable) interpretation.

And by resurrection, I do not mean any kind of body swap; but it being his own body.

 

 

Though all interpretations will be just guessing until the prophecy is fulfilled.

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This is one of the most frustrating things, seeing how people don't understand this.

Twice Dawns the Day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, Once for Birth....

 

Well, the Aiel is his blood. Their blood was shed when he was born -- aka -- the blood snow when he was born on dragonmount.

 

The second time their blood will be shed is at his death, or shortly thereafter where they all go to Tar'mon Gaiden.

 

 

It really is a simple prophecy once you look at it correctly.

Twice dawns the day (i.e. two separate and distinct days) when his blood(Aiel) is shed, once for mourning(Tar'mon Gaiden), Once for birth(blood snows).

The Aiel are Rand's blood, but their blood, not his, was shed - and has been on more days than just at the Shining Walls and TG. The Aiel were not shed.
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The Dragon (Reborn) is the Lord of the Morning; the Prince of the Dawn.

 

What I think will happen during Tarmon Gaidon is the following:

At one point, Mat will blow the Horn of Valere and -much like what we saw at the end of TGH- that will mix Tel'aran'rhiod & the Real World.

But this time Mat doesn't blow it just anywhere (like near Falme), but he'll blow it as a last ditch effort at (or near) Shayol Ghul. That way, what Verin described as a paradox back in TDR (see the Chapter 'A Matter of Thought' (how fitting!)) won't be a paradox at all since all the worlds are one, so if the DO wins right there, the DO is freed in all worlds since TAR is part (and/or surrounding) all the worlds.

 

It also makes sure that the Last Battle between Shai'tan & the Dragon -again much like the TGH fight- will be a battle of willpower mostly.

A battle of Mind over Matter, since in TAR ' thought' is 'Matter' (see previously mentioned chapter name). Normally, Shayol Ghul can't be reached in TAR -due to Shai'tans influence-, but because the Horn is blown at the weak spot, it now can be reached.

 

"Thought is the arrow of Time and Memory never fades".

So when the Dragon is nearly deafeated and is being swallowed by the 'infinite maw' he will have a Memory of Light (since memory is the one thing that never fades). And through his sheer strong stubborn willpower, the Dragon wills the sun to Dawn in TAR right at the Heart of the Dark, fullfilling prophecy of having the Sun dawn twice*. Once that morning in the Real World and once later in the day in a mix of TAR and the Real World moments before the Shadow swallows all. He will remember Light in the one spot where there is none and will hope for salvation and Rebirth.

 

I think that's how he will defeat Shai'tan. The Dragon will once again bind the Soul of Shadow inside his own Soul by envelopping Darkness/Nothingness with the Light of the dawning Sun. Binding Shai'tan as it was once designed by the Creator; The strongest of Souls binding the seed of Chaos/Nothingness inside somehting evil cannot touch -a pure Soul-, through sacrificing that Soul and hoping for nothing but salvation and rebirth (the strongest oath).

 

The weak spot will disapear from the woven Pattern because the Dragon dies and Shai'tan is bound inside the Dragon Soul in the 'soulpool'.

The weak spot in the Pattern will only re-appear each time the Dragon is spun out and woven into the Pattern, making the saying that about the Dragon bringing the Dark One more then half right; the Soul of the Dragon that is woven in the Pattern IS the weak spot.

 

 

It's why Shai'tan needs the Dragon (Soul) in the right circumstances to be able to break the Wheel of Time. Ironically, the circumstances for Shai'tan to break free are the exact same circumstances that the Dragon needs to be able to re-seal Shai'tan the proper way (as described above).

 

Amen.

 

"Let the Prince of the Dawn ride again on the Winds of Time!"

 

Cheerio,

Mik

 

 

*It's noteworthy that we've never seen a dawn -nor dusk- in TAR before, I think.

Through the Dragon we will see the first Dawn in the Unseen World.

 

 

Thanks for ruining AMoL for me! Even if this isn't how it goes down, it think I would have enjoyed reading that. Somehow I think whatever RJ planned will be disappointing now.

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considering how many theories there are regarding that exact line of prophecy, i wouldn't call any interpretation correct unitl it's fulfilled.

 

 

this

 

there have been several plausible theories on the topic

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I like this theory...

But...

Wouldn't this put the soul of the dragon out side of the pattern?

 

Edited for fat fingers on a tinny pad.

Edited by nojnomad
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The Dragon (Reborn) is the Lord of the Morning; the Prince of the Dawn.

 

What I think will happen during Tarmon Gaidon is the following:

At one point, Mat will blow the Horn of Valere and -much like what we saw at the end of TGH- that will mix Tel'aran'rhiod & the Real World.

But this time Mat doesn't blow it just anywhere (like near Falme), but he'll blow it as a last ditch effort at (or near) Shayol Ghul. That way, what Verin described as a paradox back in TDR (see the Chapter 'A Matter of Thought' (how fitting!)) won't be a paradox at all since all the worlds are one, so if the DO wins right there, the DO is freed in all worlds since TAR is part (and/or surrounding) all the worlds.

 

It also makes sure that the Last Battle between Shai'tan & the Dragon -again much like the TGH fight- will be a battle of willpower mostly.

A battle of Mind over Matter, since in TAR ' thought' is 'Matter' (see previously mentioned chapter name). Normally, Shayol Ghul can't be reached in TAR -due to Shai'tans influence-, but because the Horn is blown at the weak spot, it now can be reached.

 

"Thought is the arrow of Time and Memory never fades".

So when the Dragon is nearly deafeated and is being swallowed by the 'infinite maw' he will have a Memory of Light (since memory is the one thing that never fades). And through his sheer strong stubborn willpower, the Dragon wills the sun to Dawn in TAR right at the Heart of the Dark, fullfilling prophecy of having the Sun dawn twice*. Once that morning in the Real World and once later in the day in a mix of TAR and the Real World moments before the Shadow swallows all. He will remember Light in the one spot where there is none and will hope for salvation and Rebirth.

 

I think that's how he will defeat Shai'tan. The Dragon will once again bind the Soul of Shadow inside his own Soul by envelopping Darkness/Nothingness with the Light of the dawning Sun. Binding Shai'tan as it was once designed by the Creator; The strongest of Souls binding the seed of Chaos/Nothingness inside somehting evil cannot touch -a pure Soul-, through sacrificing that Soul and hoping for nothing but salvation and rebirth (the strongest oath).

 

The weak spot will disapear from the woven Pattern because the Dragon dies and Shai'tan is bound inside the Dragon Soul in the 'soulpool'.

The weak spot in the Pattern will only re-appear each time the Dragon is spun out and woven into the Pattern, making the saying that about the Dragon bringing the Dark One more then half right; the Soul of the Dragon that is woven in the Pattern IS the weak spot.

 

 

It's why Shai'tan needs the Dragon (Soul) in the right circumstances to be able to break the Wheel of Time. Ironically, the circumstances for Shai'tan to break free are the exact same circumstances that the Dragon needs to be able to re-seal Shai'tan the proper way (as described above).

 

Amen.

 

"Let the Prince of the Dawn ride again on the Winds of Time!"

 

Cheerio,

Mik

 

 

*It's noteworthy that we've never seen a dawn -nor dusk- in TAR before, I think.

Through the Dragon we will see the first Dawn in the Unseen World.

Very well written and interesting to boot :smile:

As for the specifics of the fighting of the last battle I haven't put much thought in to that.

The ending I believe is preordained. The bore will be repaired back to original quality so it can be breached again two ages later when everyone forgets about the dark one and some aes sedai goes looking for a new source of power ( just like happened this time ). Hence the WHEEL of time. Rand will accomplish this by using the true power in part to seal the bore ( "seize all that he is" ).

 

This is all just my opinion of course and I have not put as much time or effort in to this as you put in to your theory but we will see. I am planning to reread the whole series in preparation of a memory of light so I will keep your theory in mind and see if I spot any thing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

considering how many theories there are regarding that exact line of prophecy, i wouldn't call any interpretation correct unitl it's fulfilled.

All too true. I even believe that more then one theory can be considered correct after we've seen the Last BattleBook.

 

mourning is placed before birth right? So once for when he's killed and once for when he is resurrected.... Idk

At this point death then resurrection seems to be the most reasonable (and maybe also most probable) interpretation.

And by resurrection, I do not mean any kind of body swap; but it being his own body.

 

Though all interpretations will be just guessing until the prophecy is fulfilled.

I can see why first death and then rebirth can make sense and I think Sanderson (through RJ's notes & written sections) could make it work. Though when I take a step back and view the story through my eyelashes with all the knowledge we now have, I doubt RJ would have the Dragon -the one representing all that is life & creation- die before the actual ending. I think he'll die during the ending...and not before.

You both could very well be right though, but I like to think the 'Dawn for mourning (not death perse!) and the 'Dawn for birth' are about the Pattern itself.

In the first moments of the Last Day I could see the Dragon stare out of the window at an unusual pale rising sun, barely casting any warmth and mourn for all the losses that have been suffered during the days before and that -regardless if he will succeed or not- he will lament for all life & land that has been lost while fighting the Shadow up untill this fateful day.

The second Dawn (the first one in TAR right at Shayol Ghul/ the Heart of the Dark like I wrote) I think will be for the birth of Life and a new Age, where all seemed (nearly) lost and hope was nearly abandoned.

 

Well, I came up with the theory that it will be Dragonmount erupting that causes the day to "dawn twice". A massive eruption that will pretty much make Dragonmount explode. And I still see that as a viable possibility. It would make a nice parallell - Dragonmount was created when LTT died, and then destroyed when Rand dies (and comes back to life).

Hey Maj :)

I think it would be a missed opportunity to not have Dragonmount erupt. But I doubt you could call seeing the sun after 'the smoke clears' a dawn in any way shape or form. Dawn is when the sun rises after the night. Not when you happen to see the sun again at it's highest point in the sky, regardless of what was the cause of the 'eclipse'.

 

Shai'tan is called the Shepherd of the Night. What better way to have the sun dawn for a second time that day in TAR through the sheer will-power of the Dragon sacrificing himself -throwing himself into the Night/ the infinite Void- hoping for salvation and rebirth?

The Prince of the Dawn wills the sun to rise where there never is a dawn (TAR) in a place devoid of Light (the Shadow/ Shepherd of the Night).

 

The Aiel are Rand's blood, but their blood, not his, was shed - and has been on more days than just at the Shining Walls and TG. The Aiel were not shed.

Haha. Loved 'the Aiel were not shed'.

 

Thanks for ruining AMoL for me! Even if this isn't how it goes down, it think I would have enjoyed reading that. Somehow I think whatever RJ planned will be disappointing now.

*tips hood of black cloak* My pleasure & thanks for the compliment! I truly doubt RJ could ever disapoint. RJ = Lord of the Morning, Aes Sedai trickery & Ishamaels plotting all roled into one. :jordan::wub:

 

ya, Mik thinks and writes very pretty. i like that very much.

Wow. That certainly added a skip to my stride and a smile above my coffee! *bows*

Thanks milady.

 

I like this theory...

But...

Wouldn't this put the soul of the dragon out side of the pattern?

In part, yes.

I don't think I'd be able to quantify that because I'm not sure dimensions count as far as Souls go.

 

By definition Void (Kaos/ absence of everything) cannot be part of Creation (The Pattern of the Ages).

I look at it this way; the Dragon Soul is Part of the Pattern except for that seed of Chaos/ Nothingness. Nothing (uncreation) is by definition not part of creation.

I think this is how it's bound by the Wheel though; inside the strongest pure soul creation can come up with -untouchable for pure evil-.

 

It's why the Dragon is 'always there to confront the Shadow'... the Dragon being spun into the Pattern brings the weak spot. "Disbelief" in Creation (or believing in the 'Absence of Meaning' and the 'Disassembly of Reason') gave Shai'tan a power base that could be felt by Channelers inside the Pattern through the weak spot. (that's why RJ sneaked in Elan Morin writing those books in the AoL and then had Ishamael destroying them all after the Bore was made, I think)

 

It's kind of like what Herid left Rand on the note: "Belief and order give strength"

Then Unbelief and Disorder give strenght to Shai'tan. We see that disorder (chaos) gives strenght to Shai'tan and read it for truth in the PoV's from the Watcher & Shaidar Haran in ACoS. But it was Unbelief that started it all through Elan Morins his books I think.

 

Very well written and interesting to boot :smile:

Thankyee :myrddraal: Edited by Mik
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The Dragon (Reborn) is the Lord of the Morning; the Prince of the Dawn.

 

What I think will happen during Tarmon Gaidon is the following:

At one point, Mat will blow the Horn of Valere and -much like what we saw at the end of TGH- that will mix Tel'aran'rhiod & the Real World.

But this time Mat doesn't blow it just anywhere (like near Falme), but he'll blow it as a last ditch effort at (or near) Shayol Ghul. That way, what Verin described as a paradox back in TDR (see the Chapter 'A Matter of Thought' (how fitting!)) won't be a paradox at all since all the worlds are one, so if the DO wins right there, the DO is freed in all worlds since TAR is part (and/or surrounding) all the worlds.

 

It also makes sure that the Last Battle between Shai'tan & the Dragon -again much like the TGH fight- will be a battle of willpower mostly.

A battle of Mind over Matter, since in TAR ' thought' is 'Matter' (see previously mentioned chapter name). Normally, Shayol Ghul can't be reached in TAR -due to Shai'tans influence-, but because the Horn is blown at the weak spot, it now can be reached.

 

"Thought is the arrow of Time and Memory never fades".

So when the Dragon is nearly deafeated and is being swallowed by the 'infinite maw' he will have a Memory of Light (since memory is the one thing that never fades). And through his sheer strong stubborn willpower, the Dragon wills the sun to Dawn in TAR right at the Heart of the Dark, fullfilling prophecy of having the Sun dawn twice*. Once that morning in the Real World and once later in the day in a mix of TAR and the Real World moments before the Shadow swallows all. He will remember Light in the one spot where there is none and will hope for salvation and Rebirth.

 

I think that's how he will defeat Shai'tan. The Dragon will once again bind the Soul of Shadow inside his own Soul by envelopping Darkness/Nothingness with the Light of the dawning Sun. Binding Shai'tan as it was once designed by the Creator; The strongest of Souls binding the seed of Chaos/Nothingness inside somehting evil cannot touch -a pure Soul-, through sacrificing that Soul and hoping for nothing but salvation and rebirth (the strongest oath).

 

The weak spot will disapear from the woven Pattern because the Dragon dies and Shai'tan is bound inside the Dragon Soul in the 'soulpool'.

The weak spot in the Pattern will only re-appear each time the Dragon is spun out and woven into the Pattern, making the saying that about the Dragon bringing the Dark One more then half right; the Soul of the Dragon that is woven in the Pattern IS the weak spot.

 

 

It's why Shai'tan needs the Dragon (Soul) in the right circumstances to be able to break the Wheel of Time. Ironically, the circumstances for Shai'tan to break free are the exact same circumstances that the Dragon needs to be able to re-seal Shai'tan the proper way (as described above).

 

Amen.

 

"Let the Prince of the Dawn ride again on the Winds of Time!"

 

Cheerio,

Mik

 

 

*It's noteworthy that we've never seen a dawn -nor dusk- in TAR before, I think.

Through the Dragon we will see the first Dawn in the Unseen World.

 

I would enjoy that if it were the ending to the series. I have always thought that TG should be an event lasting hundreds of years, like the War of Power (I believe that's the AoL one) did. The DO was unsealed then and the world didn't suddenly end so why would it now? Done in the same style as the glass columns scenes, except extensively for most of a novel. Following high points and low points for Rand and other channellers as time passes, what effects it had on them, building up to the actual battle between Rand and the DO.

 

I think it would be a great way to give closure to most of the characters in the book. You would know how every major non-channeller (such as Mat, Perrin, Min, Lan and many others) died, but it wouldn't be a cliche bloodbath just to kill off main characters for emotional impact. It could easily be used to clear up a lot of speculation people have about the fates of different characters, just not in a post-TG world like everyone expects.

 

I am open to what the ending will be and not tied up in any one theory. The series has often gone in directions I didn't expect for both good and bad so I have always kept an open mind on it. I like stories and endings that have some real surprise to them and are not what you want, as long as it is not clumsy or forced. I don't believe the series will have a shoddy ending, as long as it's good I will be happy regardless of what happens.

 

I am most curious about people's reactions when it hits. I think it will be like the Sopranos or Lost where people are divided fairly strongly for one reason or another, just to a greater degree because WoT has been around much longer and the level of fandom is different. For many people who have waited years or even decades no ending is ever going to be good enough and they will complain, even if they like it later. It is just human nature.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just a wild line of speculation:

 

I guessing the Randland equivalent of a nuclear detonation, the Trinity test of the Atomic bomb, May 1945, has been describeded as the day the sun rose twice...

 

Elayne seems to have invented a tac nuke by her unknotting a Gateway while escaping the Kin Farm north of Ebou Dar. From scouting reports of the Seanchan, they initially thought it was a weapon of mass destruction.

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Just a wild line of speculation:

 

I guessing the Randland equivalent of a nuclear detonation, the Trinity test of the Atomic bomb, May 1945, has been describeded as the day the sun rose twice...

 

Elayne seems to have invented a tac nuke by her unknotting a Gateway while escaping the Kin Farm north of Ebou Dar. From scouting reports of the Seanchan, they initially thought it was a weapon of mass destruction.

 

lol...

 

They first have to make peace with the Seanchan, before Elayne will know how useful it is.

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I always wondered if when the initial "bore" took place the One Power was used; if so, does that mean that Rand not only has to break the seals, but "unweave" what was done by Lanfear and her pal? If so, he would need female help, as he could only see the male weaves. Just a weird 3am thought that didn't go anywhere...

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Well, I don't think the weaves that made the Bore still exist. I mean, you need weaves to create the Bore, but once it exists, you don't need the weaves anymore.

Edited by Leyrann
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The Dragon (Reborn) is the Lord of the Morning; the Prince of the Dawn.

 

What I think will happen during Tarmon Gaidon is the following:

At one point, Mat will blow the Horn of Valere and -much like what we saw at the end of TGH- that will mix Tel'aran'rhiod & the Real World.

But this time Mat doesn't blow it just anywhere (like near Falme), but he'll blow it as a last ditch effort at (or near) Shayol Ghul. That way, what Verin described as a paradox back in TDR (see the Chapter 'A Matter of Thought' (how fitting!)) won't be a paradox at all since all the worlds are one, so if the DO wins right there, the DO is freed in all worlds since TAR is part (and/or surrounding) all the worlds.

 

It also makes sure that the Last Battle between Shai'tan & the Dragon -again much like the TGH fight- will be a battle of willpower mostly.

A battle of Mind over Matter, since in TAR ' thought' is 'Matter' (see previously mentioned chapter name). Normally, Shayol Ghul can't be reached in TAR -due to Shai'tans influence-, but because the Horn is blown at the weak spot, it now can be reached.

 

"Thought is the arrow of Time and Memory never fades".

So when the Dragon is nearly deafeated and is being swallowed by the 'infinite maw' he will have a Memory of Light (since memory is the one thing that never fades). And through his sheer strong stubborn willpower, the Dragon wills the sun to Dawn in TAR right at the Heart of the Dark, fullfilling prophecy of having the Sun dawn twice*. Once that morning in the Real World and once later in the day in a mix of TAR and the Real World moments before the Shadow swallows all. He will remember Light in the one spot where there is none and will hope for salvation and Rebirth.

 

I think that's how he will defeat Shai'tan. The Dragon will once again bind the Soul of Shadow inside his own Soul by envelopping Darkness/Nothingness with the Light of the dawning Sun. Binding Shai'tan as it was once designed by the Creator; The strongest of Souls binding the seed of Chaos/Nothingness inside somehting evil cannot touch -a pure Soul-, through sacrificing that Soul and hoping for nothing but salvation and rebirth (the strongest oath).

 

The weak spot will disapear from the woven Pattern because the Dragon dies and Shai'tan is bound inside the Dragon Soul in the 'soulpool'.

The weak spot in the Pattern will only re-appear each time the Dragon is spun out and woven into the Pattern, making the saying that about the Dragon bringing the Dark One more then half right; the Soul of the Dragon that is woven in the Pattern IS the weak spot.

 

 

It's why Shai'tan needs the Dragon (Soul) in the right circumstances to be able to break the Wheel of Time. Ironically, the circumstances for Shai'tan to break free are the exact same circumstances that the Dragon needs to be able to re-seal Shai'tan the proper way (as described above).

 

Amen.

 

"Let the Prince of the Dawn ride again on the Winds of Time!"

 

Cheerio,

Mik

 

 

*It's noteworthy that we've never seen a dawn -nor dusk- in TAR before, I think.

Through the Dragon we will see the first Dawn in the Unseen World.

 

 

Very nice theory. But where's Fain and what about Calandor?

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"Thought is the arrow of Time and Memory never fades".

This is the slogan on Mat's spear, it's got nothing to do with Rand.

I'm going to be more critical than most; your idea seems to shoehorn a lot of the "important" details in.

It's interesting I guess, but I hope that's not how it plays out.

 

 

EDIT:

That said, I do like the idea about the Dragon "bringing" the DO somehow.

Edited by Lacanos
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I would enjoy that if it were the ending to the series.

Thanks. Me too. :)

 

I have always thought that TG should be an event lasting hundreds of years, like the War of Power (I believe that's the AoL one) did. The DO was unsealed then and the world didn't suddenly end so why would it now? Done in the same style as the glass columns scenes, except extensively for most of a novel. Following high points and low points for Rand and other channellers as time passes, what effects it had on them, building up to the actual battle between Rand and the DO.

I disagree with the idea that Tarmon Gai'don should last hundreds of years.

Tarmon Gai'don is fought on just one day; 'the Last Day'.

 

However, I'm convinced we'll experience some serious, serious Time-distorted stuff in AMoL for all sorts of reasons:

1 - Birgitte -back in TGH (The Grave Is No Bar to My Call)- already told Rand they had 'all of time' when Mat blew the Horn of Valere.

2 - Time flows differently in TAR then in the Real World.

3 - With all the Seals broken and the state of the world, Shai'tans Hand on the Pattern will have some serious Time distorting effects

4 - 'Time' probably doesn't exist at all where Shai'tan is bound by the Wheel. (only Nothingness 'exists' there)

 

So even though TG will be one single day, I'm sure we'll experience it way differently through the eyes of a lot of characters.

Rand's fight might feel like lasting an infinity, for instance.

 

RAFO, I guess! :)

 

 

I always wondered if when the initial "bore" took place the One Power was used; if so, does that mean that Rand not only has to break the seals, but "unweave" what was done by Lanfear and her pal? If so, he would need female help, as he could only see the male weaves. Just a weird 3am thought that didn't go anywhere...

Well, I don't think the weaves that made the Bore still exist. I mean, you need weaves to create the Bore, but once it exists, you don't need the weaves anymore.

Perhaps you do, to hold the Bore open against pressures from the Pattern.

I think it's safe to assume that Beidomon wouldn't invert his weaves when conducting an experiment.

yet, no weaves have ever been described in the books.

Not at Shayol Ghul nor at any other location.

Not by the Forsaken, Lews Therin, Birgitte or Rand (or any other source with lots of info from since the drilling of the Bore)

 

When the Bore was drilled to the place outside the Pattern, the Sharom was used as the location to conduct the experiment.

The Sharom exploded (gouts of black flame it was?) so we can conclude that that specific location did matter initially.

It stands to reason there should at least be weaves (of a male drilled Gateway using both halves of the Power) at where the Sharom once floated.

Right?

 

Yet no weaves are described by either a male or female channeler. Ever.

Neither at Shayol Ghul nor floating in the sky above where the Collam Daan stood.

I doubt the weaves still exist nor do I think they would be necessary; Shai'tan & the Source don't mix. :)

 

 

Very nice theory. But where's Fain...

Thanks.

You must realize I just responded to the original topic question; about the Day that Dawns Twice.

 

From the start of the series Ishamael was always after the Dragon (I win again, Lews Therin!).

Yet from the start of the series, Fain was always after Rand (It's never over, al'Thor!).

 

"To live, you must die"

For Rand to live, the Dragon must die.

 

I'm not sure how Padan Fain ties into it all, but I'm prery sure Fain will be instrumental in Rand his survival of the Last Battle.

We've already seen that the Evil of Mordeth (Manmade/Creations Evil) & the Evil of Moridin (Uncreations Evil) attract eachother and destroy eachother.

Fain's Soul might have some 'room' for Rand personality/mind in the struggle @ Shayol Ghul. *shrugs*

 

...and what about Calandor?

That's actually a pretty long story.. :madmyrddraal:

 

In short;

I think Callandor is a methaphor for the Dragons Mind.

I think the Aes Sedai we see through Rand's eyes during the Breaking linked Lews Therin his mind to Callandor and that's how only Rand (with the Dragons Soul) could 'grasp the Sword that isn't a Sword'. The Aes Sedai had to use 'flawed' Callandor because of that flaw.

 

Before Rand took the Heart of the Stone (representing the Dragon that was one with the land as the Stone was build with parts from all corners of the world) Callandor pulsed/ flashed/ glittered with a light (Mind?) of it's own. It never did so after Rand had taken Callandor.

 

Since I think the Last Battle will be fought in a mix of the Real World & TAR, what better 'weapon' to wield then one that represents the Dragons Mind?

The Dragon his Mind was the Sword that cannot be Touched.

 

I think RJ found inspiration for this in the legendary Yamaoka Tesshu and his unique thoughts and style of Japanese swordsmanship;

The name Shumpukan was inspired by the above line from a poem and means "the hall of the spring wind." In the early Meiji period (1868-1911) this was the name of the dojo of Yamaoka Tesshu, often considered as the last of the great swordsmen of Japanese martial history. Tesshu believed in unbelievably hard practice as this was the only way to achieve mind and body in harmony when fencing. It was Tesshus understanding that there was no sword outside the mind; the sword of no sword, or Muto.

 

..//..

 

“Tesshu’s formula”: “The sword doesn’t exist outside the spirit.” (shin gaï muto)”

 

The term muto (No-Sword) refers to Yamaokas stated realization that the difference between Sword and Self, and between oneself and one’s opponent is illusory and that the underlying unity of all is the most important thing in swordsmanship.

 

“Moving the blade is not enough,” Lan said, “though some think it is. The mind is part of it, most of it. Blank your mind, sheepherder. Empty it of hate or fear, of everything. (TEotW, Chapter 13 – Choices)

 

“I’m grateful to Far Madding, Min.” [Rand] His voice was emotionless, distant, as it had been when he seized saidin in the early days. He would have warmed it for her, but that seemed beyond him. “I really did find what I needed here.” If a sword had memory, it might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.

(WH, Chapter 35 - With the Choedan Kal)

 

 

 

"Thought is the arrow of Time and Memory never fades".

This is the slogan on Mat's spear, it's got nothing to do with Rand.

I'm going to be more critical than most; your idea seems to shoehorn a lot of the "important" details in.

It's interesting I guess, but I hope that's not how it plays out.

I disagree it has nothing to do with Rand.

Just because RJ put that line about thought & memory on Mat his Ashandarei doesn't make it less true for Rand.

 

Why do you hope that's not how it plays out? What would you like to read?

 

 

EDIT:

That said, I do like the idea about the Dragon "bringing" the DO somehow.

Me too. :)
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