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I too dont like gawyn. light! i felt like tearing up the pages with his pov! what with his rand hating and shortsightedness,URGH! I also dislike most of the aes sedai ESPECIALLY MERISE! i mean the way she treats narishma, i dont know why the guy puts up with it! bloody fool.

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I too dont like gawyn. light! i felt like tearing up the pages with his pov! what with his rand hating and shortsightedness,URGH! I also dislike most of the aes sedai ESPECIALLY MERISE! i mean the way she treats narishma, i dont know why the guy puts up with it! bloody fool.

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I too dont like gawyn. light! i felt like tearing up the pages with his pov! what with his rand hating and shortsightedness,URGH! I also dislike most of the aes sedai ESPECIALLY MERISE! i mean the way she treats narishma, i dont know why the guy puts up with it! bloody fool.

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I tend to like all of the characters. Granted the bit about Perrin whining about Faile every page was a bit irratating, I got over it after the awesomeness after.

 

I don't get all the Egwene hate. Yeah she's a bit of a bitch but it really never bugged me too much because IMO she matured quite a bit and isn't just looking for her own power.

 

If I had to pick a least favorite it would be Galina. IDK she just bugged me.

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Sevanna mostly slipped under my radar on my first readthrough, but now that I'm paying closer attention.... ARGHHHH. Stupidity is usually punished in WoT, but only after tons of collateral damage. She makes Elaida seem competent.

 

The Seanchan, I suppose I share some of Egwene's PTSD induced hatred regarding them. I'm hoping as much for the freedom of every damane as I'm hoping for a victory for the Light in the Last Battle. As I'm reading, I'm taking mental notes of those we meet and those that are captured and enslaved, hoping that they will be rescued.

 

Rahvin and Valda. One sure way to make me hate a character is to make them rape a literally defenseless woman, and the abuse didn't stop there.

 

Gawyn, Elaida, and Whitecloaks in general.

 

 

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I haven't finished reading the last couple. I always loved Nyneave, though the whole her traveling with Elyane bit pre-Salidar did get tasking, but for me the book was amplified on the painful reading factor by the fact I couldn't stand how Egwene developed with the Wise Ones, and how she ended up treating Nyneave I just felt pain for the girl all the more, she was trying to fight for the light with everything she had, and less personal/power motives than most. Yeah, Nyneave had/has some things to work on, but the way Egwene went about things, SHE was the one breaking a full oath, and the whole first scene she was riding on Nyneave, Nyn was actually trying to be honest, even when it hurt, but Egwene....if she ever thought of Nyn as a friend, to do that to the woman who saved her, and was who she would ask to stay with her when she was afraid, etc. would take a lot for me to forgive her, and sounds like doesn't happen. Then throw in some other things with Brigette saying she'd drive Nyneave away, Luca, not all her fault (then we have to add in snoring, cooking, lol, ouch!), whatever Nyn had to work on, so much other stuff going on to her, I had to take a few breaks through that book.

 

Anyways, from the sounds of it, Nyneave gets even better, yay, and Egwene worse, ugh. And now Gawyn is bad? Oi, with the Eqwene/Gawyn....thinking there might be a good bit I'd wish I could skip. Eylane I'm neutral on, Faile too so far...but I could see where it could go bad.

 

Moraine I like, but mostly through seeing some other sides of her via Lan, otherwise I wouldn't, and with my love of Nyneave...I'm hoping there will be some great resolution there, I think if Nyneave ever got inside Moraine's head, they could really understand each other a lot better.

 

Some of the other names people mention...they're too minor (perhaps just a "so far" issue) for me to worry. Smaller characters, even if evil, or flat, or whatever, they aren't around enough, especially in terms of having POV chapters, never gets to a hate level for me, overall, variety keeps me interested...which sometimes the lack there of with the girls-Egwene, Elyane and even Avi, at first more of an issue.

Edited by thedragonstar

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NOOOOO character has caused me more grief and pulling my hair out.....and then throw the blinking bleaping freaking book agaisnt the wall then Cadsuane the horrible.. Let the back lash of indignation and knowledgeable people strike me down...but I hate that B***H... Alanna comes second, Gawyne barely redeemed himself in TOM but he did.. and the Seafolk can go rot in a tin bucket with rusty codfish.....No relation to are DM Fish

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Sorry but i am not a big fan of Perin (Oh i have all these people following me and asking me what i want them to do) Wha Wha Wha. Put Nineve in his shoes she would put them to use, and not feel bad about it.

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NOOOOO character has caused me more grief and pulling my hair out.....and then throw the blinking bleaping freaking book agaisnt the wall then Cadsuane the horrible.. Let the back lash of indignation and knowledgeable people strike me down...but I hate that B***H... Alanna comes second, Gawyne barely redeemed himself in TOM but he did.. and the Seafolk can go rot in a tin bucket with rusty codfish.....No relation to are DM Fish

 

You are allowed to dislike Cadsuane. I disliked her too on my first reread but on my second and consequently each one after I fell in love with her more and more. Written as a character, her faults are extremely obvious, and her good traits are alot more subtle, which to me is quite interesting as the majority of good guys tend to be the opposite.

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Gawyn because of how wrong he is all the time. I mean come on... "Al'Thor I'll see you dead despite the fact that you have to save the world!" The fact that he is selfish enough to even think of killing the world's savior is baffling. And seriously why are you at the tower all the time? You should be in Camelyn Mr Prince.

 

And I know Egwene is a popular one to bash, but its not without reason. She's arrogant just like most of the Aes Sedai and she's still trying to control and manipulate Rand. I'm crossing my fingers that she gets overruled on the FoM. She needs to be brought down a million levels and realize she is a servant of the people, and not ruler of all.

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Although I find Egwene gets much more tolerable later on in the books (beginning with meeting her toh to the Wise Ones), I think a lot of that has to do with the company she's keeping. It's easy to sympathize with her when she's dealing with the meddling of the likes of Lelaine and Romanda. What gets me is her hypocrisy. On becoming Amyrlin, she realizes how difficult it is being such a powerful figure in the public eye. She has to treat her friends differently, she has to show that she's Amyrlin in more than just name, she has to make hard decisions, she has to deal with sycophants licking at her wrist to gain favor as well as people scheming against her wishes constantly both in public and private. She has to make people see her as more than just the mayor's daughter from Emond's Field, or more than just the Accepted she was before being raised. In other words, all the things Rand had to deal with on becoming the Dragon Reborn. And when he had to set himself apart and act the part as the Dragon, she always saw it as him getting above himself, being arrogant and generally disapproved of the way he treated people. And never once did she think as Amyrlin, "Wow...I gave Rand a lot of crap, but now I have a taste of what it's like, and it's no picnic."

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Although I find Egwene gets much more tolerable later on in the books (beginning with meeting her toh to the Wise Ones), I think a lot of that has to do with the company she's keeping. It's easy to sympathize with her when she's dealing with the meddling of the likes of Lelaine and Romanda. What gets me is her hypocrisy. On becoming Amyrlin, she realizes how difficult it is being such a powerful figure in the public eye. She has to treat her friends differently, she has to show that she's Amyrlin in more than just name, she has to make hard decisions, she has to deal with sycophants licking at her wrist to gain favor as well as people scheming against her wishes constantly both in public and private. She has to make people see her as more than just the mayor's daughter from Emond's Field, or more than just the Accepted she was before being raised. In other words, all the things Rand had to deal with on becoming the Dragon Reborn. And when he had to set himself apart and act the part as the Dragon, she always saw it as him getting above himself, being arrogant and generally disapproved of the way he treated people. And never once did she think as Amyrlin, "Wow...I gave Rand a lot of crap, but now I have a taste of what it's like, and it's no picnic."

 

I don't have my books on me - but I seem to think that she had an epiphany like that in the most recent book. But maybe that was Elayne...

 

In either case I remember being floored that someone at LAST realized that Rand had to appear to other that way in order to have the air of authority needed to do his job as Dragon.

 

I find this a difficult question - because while there are many characters that I didn't like - it was because they were well written enough that I saw them as a person I wouldn't have liked had I met them. Which in my mind, means they are very well written characters. Many of them did things that infuriated me, and that I felt were just idiocy, but they made some sort of sense in the context of their world.

 

My first couple of read through of the story I disliked reading the chapters with the forsaken bickering between themselves. This was largely because I was very invested in the main characters story arcs, and didn't want to be interrupted. I've come to have a greater appreciation for these sections the more I've read them however. I guess if I had to pick the character that I enjoy the least it would have to be Elayne. Most of her actions and motivations in the story seem wrong to me. I think the only part of her story when I actively enjoyed reading about her was her arc of meeting toh to Mat in Ebou Dar. But her even being there, to me, broke her main character motivation - being Queen of Andor. It was important for the plot, but I felt that it broke parts of her character to voluntarily wait on the SUPER important task of succeeding her Mother to prevent war in Andor. I think that the character would have to have been forced to go there in lieu of taking the throne - and so I didn't like that. I also felt that her falling for Rand was super forced, and while I have trouble wrapping my head around the dude with 3 girlfriends from a cultural stand point, its specifically Elayne and his relationship that doesn't feel right. That being said I don't hate Elayne, just that she's my least favorite.

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Imerickson said:

Although I find Egwene gets much more tolerable later on in the books (beginning with meeting her toh to the Wise Ones), ...

 

For me, it is the opposite. If I recall correctly, we meet her in EotW through Rand's POV. By that time, I had completely identified with Rand's place insofar as being a young man and meeting beautiful women. Taking her description as being beautiful coupled with her kind-hearted healing of Rand together, I thought she would be a great replacement for Egwene - who had been flirting with Aram by that point I think. This was sort of a twist of the "Princess and the Frog" tale. At any rate, I wanted to like her in the early books, and I did. For me though, it went mostly downhill. I didn't find hers and Nyneave's story arcs in middle books terribly excting - although Tanchico was better than Valan Luca's circus. The Salidar to Ebou Dar journey saw her being much less likable as a character, because she used, abused and dismissed Mat so blatantly. Mostly I had to keep telling myself that everyone has to learn, and grow; so that must be what RJ was doing with her character. However, I only grew more disinterested with her story arcs. I found the whole 'I must win the throne on my own' arc to be uninteresting, maybe the least interesting to me within the whole series. She's also been captured or kidnapped more than any other character within the series iirc, many of these due to her own boneheaded decisions.

I also didn't like her antipathy towards Perrin. I think that a ruler in her position should have been wise enough to have realized that while some could look at his actions as rebellious, he really did for the 2 rivers what Andor had been negligent, unwilling, unable and to a certain extent uncaring to do. As such, a wise ruler should have been jumping to bind Perrin to Andor, rather than ready to execute him for rebellion, as her POV makes clear to be her private desires.

 

By contrast, Nyneave is shown to be very much willing to work with Rand (compared to Elayne's views on Perrin), very genuinely caring and her character flaws (at least to me) much more easily forgiven due to her strengths. Elayne has become the character I have to work to not dislike.

 

Yamahako said:

I don't have my books on me - but I seem to think that she had an epiphany like that in the most recent book

 

I think her epiphany was how Rand had been severely abused by Elaida. This epiphany occurred in the Gathering Storm shortly before the Seanchan raid. She was in a cell too small for even her to stand up straight in... she thinks that she isn't having to endure even a small part of what Rand had to endure.

 

My point is that her real epiphany was about Rand's physical suffering (iirc), rather than his need to be aloof or arrogant because of his position of power. It's sort of a moot point though, because the more I think about it I realize that Egwene does seem to take Rand's pressures into account at different points in ToM.

 

For me, I think Egwene's character has come back to being a very likable character. I don't like that she thinks she knows better than the dragon regarding the seals, but this idea/action can be reasoned to her also being immensely influential/powerful leader (even if much less than Rand). Her story arc was even exciting in the last two books.

 

Ok, I've rambled too much. Elayne, I suppose, is my least favorite character from a standpoint of how RJ envisioned each character's story (among the important characters). She beats out even Faile for me, simply because she had so much potential in the beginning, and even though she has met most of that potential, her growth has been in ways that I mostly don't care to read about.

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I, suppose, it would be Elayne. I know there were several books where Rand was right up there in my least favorite column, lol. I'm in the midst of my first reread and I'm up to LoC, and I haven't found him to be annoying yet. So either, I haven't reached that point in the series or I'm finding that I'm liking him more the second time around, lmao.

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I think that a ruler in her position should have been wise enough to have realized that while some could look at his actions as rebellious, he really did for the 2 rivers what Andor had been negligent, unwilling, unable and to a certain extent uncaring to do. As such, a wise ruler should have been jumping to bind Perrin to Andor, rather than ready to execute him for rebellion, as her POV makes clear to be her private desires.

 

Any ruler would call what Perrin did rebellion, no way around that. But the scenario you describe is exactly what Elayne did. Her threat was a negotiating ploy in binding him to the throne and nothing more. She never had "private desires" to execute him for true.

 

Also it's funny how Andor is always singled out as being negligent with the 2Rs. Every other country has similar areas and yet the 2Rs(which is what four villages?) due to geography is by far the most secluded in the entire world. RJ is describing a fallen world, all the countries are said to be shrinking and this is just another example. Compare it to Ebou Dar which can barely wield control outside the city limits and it should put things in perspective.

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Any ruler would call what Perrin did rebellion, no way around that. But the scenario you describe is exactly what Elayne did. Her threat was a negotiating ploy in binding him to the throne and nothing more. She never had "private desires" to execute him for true.

 

Also it's funny how Andor is always singled out as being negligent with the 2Rs. Every other country has similar areas and yet the 2Rs(which is what four villages?) due to geography is by far the most secluded in the entire world. RJ is describing a fallen world, all the countries are said to be shrinking and this is just another example. Compare it to Ebou Dar which can barely wield control outside the city limits and it should put things in perspective.

 

Your response was most satisfying, since I remembered you arguing these same points some time back in a different thread on this topic of Elayne and Perrin. It also made me dive into enclopaedia-wot to look for where Elayne may have stated her desire to execute him. I found in ToM 45 where she says that she was (paraphrasing) "almost mad enough to have him executed." I also recall from somewhere much earlier in the series that someone (probably Morgase, the more I think about it) thinks she would execute him given the chance.

 

But even though I respect your view, and I am likely wrong about Elayne's desire the execute him, I still find that she handled this in a manner I don't care for. She had a chance for real growth here. She could have accepted and owned the burden of the crown's culpability in neglecting an entire province for generations. Had she done so, there wouldn't have been the private 'fuming' described in ToM 45; rather, she would have mentioned her acceptance of the crown's burden and proffered the Lordship on Perrin of her own volition. [ /soapbox]

 

The reason this bothers me so much is that RJ's reasoning and apparent philosophy, as conveyed through this series so closely mirrors my own. This detours from that.

 

Regarding your point:

"Also it's funny how Andor is always singled out as being negligent with the 2Rs. Every other country has similar areas and yet the 2Rs(which is what four villages?) due to geography is by far the most secluded in the entire world. "

 

I find this to be somewhat of a reach. We don't care about other provinces in other countries because we don't know of them or aren't personally/emotionally invested in them. Your point about RJ describing a fallen world is valid except that emotions will nearly always trump rationalizations.

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Here is the passage you are referring to...

 

ToM. Ch. 45

 

"He is an interesting one, Perrin is," Morgase said thoughtfully. "Yes, perhaps I could be of some use there. We have something of an understanding already."

 

Elayne raised an eyebrow.

 

"He was behind my safe return to you," Morgase said. "He is an honest man, and honorable as well. But also a rebel, despite his good intentions. You will not have an easy time of it if you come to blows with that one."

 

"I'd rather avoid it." She grimaced. The easiest way to deal with it would be to find him and execute him, but of course she wasn't going to do that. Even if reports had her fuming enough to almost wish that she could.

 

As for the treatment of the 2Rs I guess it just comes down to personnel taste. I prefer realism and consistency across the board. To me it wouldn't make sense that an area that remote was handled in a manner that runs counter to every other nation in the world.

Edited by Suttree

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I'm not sure it's the treatment that's so much the problem, but the fervent demands on a people who had nearly forgotten they're even part of a realm. I think the point is more that Elayne shouldn't be so close to being made enough to do it, even if she won't, because they have ignored the 2R for so long. For right or for wrong.

 

Like when Egwene notes that it bothered Elayne that she didn't accept being part of Andor. You'd think Elayne would be a little understanding, and if she's bothered by it, then they should fix it by having SOME presence. If they can't, like other nations, then be smart enough not to be so bothered by it.

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In no particular order:

 

Byar, Asunawa and Valda

Egwene and Gawyn

Most of the Seanchan for the "we own this land because the father of the man who founded our empire briefly ruled it a thousand years ago" attitude.

Most Aes Sedai, self righteous and arrogant. This excludes Siuan, Leane, Moiraine, Cadsuane, Verin and the BA Hunters for actually seeing a problem and doing something to try and fix it.

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Any of the characters that think turning someone over their knee for a good spanking is the best course of action when trying to win a debate. Just so happens to be almost all of the women, and many of the men....

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Least fav to READ? Any of the women in LoC through PoD, Rand in FoH, Mat WH(?) Perrin in CoT(?). Simply because it's all reading about their frustration.

 

Least favorite PERIOD? It's hard to say. Gawyn, I suppose, because he often doesn't see/refuses to believe things seemingly because the story says he can't.

Masema, of course, and Hanlon. Galina, also of course. Liandrin(dirty stinkin' liar), Savanna, Taim. Moggy and Sammael. Any Aes Sedai (yes, even YOU, Little Miss Amyrlin) who think that Mat's medallion belongs to WT by default. He PAID for it, burn you!

 

And of course Bela(You think I don't see what you're doing, don't you?):(

 

Wow, guess I've got more hate in me than I thought. :) Pretty therapudic.

Edited by Sephie

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