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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

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Every single character lacking a penis. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. In every single female PoV in this series, the women look down upon men as a lesser life-form.

 

But having to pick out specific characters.....

 

Mazrim Taim.

No redeeming qualities whatsoever. Not 1. He was given trust, and uses it for evil. Maybe he is a forsaken in disguise. But honestly, if he is, then only Rands pure stupidity is keeping him from being completely obliterated. Fine, you want to make evil male channelers? A good plan I will grant..but doing it IN Rands school? At any point the whole thing has been going on, Rand COULD have stopped it with his army of aiel, loyal Asha'man and loyal Aes Sedai. He is only enjoying success because Rand is ignoring him for some reason. He couldn't have counted on this being the case, unless he IS one of the male forsaken and somehow hit Rand with an inverted compulsion weave to ignore him... However, if he DID do that, then why not just hit him with compulsion to go to Shayol'ghul and serve the dark one? lol.

 

Rand.

For the reasons listed above. S T U P I D.

 

Elayne.

If ever the female chauvinism was glaring through it is with this character. "I can't have outside help to take the throne. WAH WAH WAH"

First, all the rebel claimants have armies don't they? With nice Andoran leaders? Not every single person in the army is Andoran mind you, but the upper officers surely are. Last time I checked. RAND IS ANDORAN. So how does he qualify as outside help? He may be king of the freaking world, but he is STILL an Andoran.

Her stupidity about Mins viewing also irks me. Yes, Min said the babies would be born healthy...but at no point did she predict that their mother would have arms, legs or the capacity to think when that happens. That would be like me going to Washington and on the top of Mt. St. Helens while its smoking because someone (proven to be a prophet) predicted that it would erupt in the year 2050. Not saying that it WOULDN'T erupt before then, just that it would erupt then.

 

Perrin.

STOP BEING A WUSSY. You are a leader. GET OVER IT BI***.

 

Egwene.

Because men are retards and she is perfect. Or so she seems to think.

 

Faile.

Wait, I actually like Faile.

 

Nynaeve.

One of my favorite characters, I hated her the most, but her amazing growth in the last handful of books has landed me on team Nynaeve for sure.

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Well. Weren't the Kin supposed to be leaving soon, to go "join" the White Tower? She wanted to make sure she had enough people left to make gateways maybe> (Just guessing)

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I need time to think about this one but off the bat, I never liked Aram. Never.

 

A lot of the Aes Sedai annoy the living crap out of me. They seem like little girls with a ton of power so everyone has to listen to their bs.

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I need time to think about this one but off the bat, I never liked Aram. Never.

 

A lot of the Aes Sedai annoy the living crap out of me. They seem like little girls with a ton of power so everyone has to listen to their bs.

 

Who likes Aram though? He's just not, good enough to be a least favorite however. He annoyed me from his entrance to his death. Even his death annoyed me.

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

I see it as genious because she not only secures more channellers, but likely a seafolk army (they would not want to lose land type deal), and a lot more trade which means that Caemlyn now has silk, sea folk glass (can't remember proper name) and other high demand trade goods moving into the area without the hundreds of mark ups that come from trading it across many merchants

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

I see it as genious because she not only secures more channellers, but likely a seafolk army (they would not want to lose land type deal), and a lot more trade which means that Caemlyn now has silk, sea folk glass (can't remember proper name) and other high demand trade goods moving into the area without the hundreds of mark ups that come from trading it across many merchants

 

It just seems that everyone thought that the first Nynaeve-Elayne "bargain" with Nesta was a total disaster for the WT. In the meantime and till Elayne made the second "bargain" with the Sea Folk (which she made under pressure), I don't think her negotiating skills improved at all. In fact, she comments on herself as being the first monarch to willfully give sovereign Andoran soil to a foreign entity. Couple that with Traveling, imagine if the Sea Folk decide to Travel goods in and out of their square mile! That would be classic.

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

I see it as genious because she not only secures more channellers, but likely a seafolk army (they would not want to lose land type deal), and a lot more trade which means that Caemlyn now has silk, sea folk glass (can't remember proper name) and other high demand trade goods moving into the area without the hundreds of mark ups that come from trading it across many merchants

 

It just seems that everyone thought that the first Nynaeve-Elayne "bargain" with Nesta was a total disaster for the WT. In the meantime and till Elayne made the second "bargain" with the Sea Folk (which she made under pressure), I don't think her negotiating skills improved at all. In fact, she comments on herself as being the first monarch to willfully give sovereign Andoran soil to a foreign entity. Couple that with Traveling, imagine if the Sea Folk decide to Travel goods in and out of their square mile! That would be classic.

they could, but the movement of goods in and out of the square mile will still have to be dealt with

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

I see it as genious because she not only secures more channellers, but likely a seafolk army (they would not want to lose land type deal), and a lot more trade which means that Caemlyn now has silk, sea folk glass (can't remember proper name) and other high demand trade goods moving into the area without the hundreds of mark ups that come from trading it across many merchants

 

It just seems that everyone thought that the first Nynaeve-Elayne "bargain" with Nesta was a total disaster for the WT. In the meantime and till Elayne made the second "bargain" with the Sea Folk (which she made under pressure), I don't think her negotiating skills improved at all. In fact, she comments on herself as being the first monarch to willfully give sovereign Andoran soil to a foreign entity. Couple that with Traveling, imagine if the Sea Folk decide to Travel goods in and out of their square mile! That would be classic.

they could, but the movement of goods in and out of the square mile will still have to be dealt with

 

From memory I think taxes apply only to goods movement out of the square mile. And the Sea Folk have Traveling. I don't see them using it for "tax evasion" purposes. But it is a loophole in the agreement. Sea Folk ships unload in Andor and then Travel their goods to the Borderlands and other inland kingdoms.

 

In any case, Traveling has thrown the weasel in the chicken yard for everything to do with movement of goods and troops. Elayne might find herself collecting less gold from the square mile than she thought she would initially.

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

I see it as genious because she not only secures more channellers, but likely a seafolk army (they would not want to lose land type deal), and a lot more trade which means that Caemlyn now has silk, sea folk glass (can't remember proper name) and other high demand trade goods moving into the area without the hundreds of mark ups that come from trading it across many merchants

 

It just seems that everyone thought that the first Nynaeve-Elayne "bargain" with Nesta was a total disaster for the WT. In the meantime and till Elayne made the second "bargain" with the Sea Folk (which she made under pressure), I don't think her negotiating skills improved at all. In fact, she comments on herself as being the first monarch to willfully give sovereign Andoran soil to a foreign entity. Couple that with Traveling, imagine if the Sea Folk decide to Travel goods in and out of their square mile! That would be classic.

they could, but the movement of goods in and out of the square mile will still have to be dealt with

 

From memory I think taxes apply only to goods movement out of the square mile. And the Sea Folk have Traveling. I don't see them using it for "tax evasion" purposes. But it is a loophole in the agreement. Sea Folk ships unload in Andor and then Travel their goods to the Borderlands and other inland kingdoms.

 

In any case, Traveling has thrown the weasel in the chicken yard for everything to do with movement of goods and troops. Elayne might find herself collecting less gold from the square mile than she thought she would initially.

yeah, I tried to come up with an answer but couldn't come up with a sufficient one to satisfy myself, I could see her recreating the effect of a dreamspike to prevent travelling to the major cities in order to keep a tab on whats happening, but beyond that theres not much she can do

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I don't like Slayer. In fact, I didn't even really care for this whole "Slayer chase" in Tel'aran'rhiod in ToM, which coverred a good portion of Perrin's scenes in that book. He should have died already since they got in like a half dozen fights in that book alone, and it gets redundant. He's a droll character and lame villain, IMO.

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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

I see it as genious because she not only secures more channellers, but likely a seafolk army (they would not want to lose land type deal), and a lot more trade which means that Caemlyn now has silk, sea folk glass (can't remember proper name) and other high demand trade goods moving into the area without the hundreds of mark ups that come from trading it across many merchants

 

It just seems that everyone thought that the first Nynaeve-Elayne "bargain" with Nesta was a total disaster for the WT. In the meantime and till Elayne made the second "bargain" with the Sea Folk (which she made under pressure), I don't think her negotiating skills improved at all. In fact, she comments on herself as being the first monarch to willfully give sovereign Andoran soil to a foreign entity. Couple that with Traveling, imagine if the Sea Folk decide to Travel goods in and out of their square mile! That would be classic.

they could, but the movement of goods in and out of the square mile will still have to be dealt with

 

From memory I think taxes apply only to goods movement out of the square mile. And the Sea Folk have Traveling. I don't see them using it for "tax evasion" purposes. But it is a loophole in the agreement. Sea Folk ships unload in Andor and then Travel their goods to the Borderlands and other inland kingdoms.

 

In any case, Traveling has thrown the weasel in the chicken yard for everything to do with movement of goods and troops. Elayne might find herself collecting less gold from the square mile than she thought she would initially.

Of course, thanks to her deal with the Kin in ToM, she can collect money from goods sent via their Gateways. So sending via Sea Folk is less desirable.
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Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

 

Or you could take it as an example of Elayne's judgement and governing skills; let alone her (and Nynaeve's) negotiation skills that Nesta bared :tongue: One of Mat's best scenes is when he tells Nynaeve and Elayne "next time you need a bargain with the Seafolk ..... " :biggrin:

I see it as genious because she not only secures more channellers, but likely a seafolk army (they would not want to lose land type deal), and a lot more trade which means that Caemlyn now has silk, sea folk glass (can't remember proper name) and other high demand trade goods moving into the area without the hundreds of mark ups that come from trading it across many merchants

 

It just seems that everyone thought that the first Nynaeve-Elayne "bargain" with Nesta was a total disaster for the WT. In the meantime and till Elayne made the second "bargain" with the Sea Folk (which she made under pressure), I don't think her negotiating skills improved at all. In fact, she comments on herself as being the first monarch to willfully give sovereign Andoran soil to a foreign entity. Couple that with Traveling, imagine if the Sea Folk decide to Travel goods in and out of their square mile! That would be classic.

they could, but the movement of goods in and out of the square mile will still have to be dealt with

 

From memory I think taxes apply only to goods movement out of the square mile. And the Sea Folk have Traveling. I don't see them using it for "tax evasion" purposes. But it is a loophole in the agreement. Sea Folk ships unload in Andor and then Travel their goods to the Borderlands and other inland kingdoms.

 

In any case, Traveling has thrown the weasel in the chicken yard for everything to do with movement of goods and troops. Elayne might find herself collecting less gold from the square mile than she thought she would initially.

Of course, thanks to her deal with the Kin in ToM, she can collect money from goods sent via their Gateways. So sending via Sea Folk is less desirable.

 

True; but the Sea Folk have some very desirable goods that is grabbed quickly by customers throughout Randland. The Kin's gateways won't be moving those goods without the Sea Folk's involvement.

 

And we still haven't seen if Egwene will allow Elayne to uphold her agreement with the Kin; because Elayne did that without consulting her.

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With Traveling public seatrade is pretty much dead. And that means the Sea Folk is about to lose the basis of their economy. Either the Kin or the Asha'man- if they don't just join the Aes Sedai- are bound to make a business out of it and when they do they'll soon have a monopoly on long distance transport. Sure the Windfinders can do the same, but as transport costs drop they couldn't support the rest of their people with it. Besides I doubt the rest of the Sea Folk would want to be their dependants.

 

True; but the Sea Folk have some very desirable goods that is grabbed quickly by customers throughout Randland. The Kin's gateways won't be moving those goods without the Sea Folk's involvement.

 

And we still haven't seen if Egwene will allow Elayne to uphold her agreement with the Kin; because Elayne did that without consulting her.

 

The only unique good the Sea Folk have is their porcelain.

 

Egwene doesn't have much choice. Which is why she was a bit miffed about it when she learned of it. She has to uphold it, because whether Elayne consulted her or not, Elayne bargained as an Aes Sedai for the White Tower and the Tower can't be seen breaking its word.

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I wouldn't overestimate the effects of Travelling on trade. It is vastly faster, but also very resource-intensive. Most of the Kin and even quite a few Sedai have to link to pull it off, it's not an easy weave to do over and over on command, we see how quickly Grady and Neald get worn out from Traveling Perrin's army. If you use channelers for Travelling, then you can't use them for anything else while they're doing it. It seems likely it'd be used mostly for items requiring high security or that have a high value that may not otherwise be profitable to trade. Bulk transport of raw materials and consumer goods would likely be so taxing on the channelers, with only modest profit gains from transport savings, that you'd be better off with traditional merchant trains, at least until those new steam engines come into common use. Let's face it, there are more useful things channies could be doing than providing instant, fast transport for bulk trading goods on demand.

 

And Egwene certainly can overrule Elayne's Travelling ambitions for the Kin and may very well do so if she feels that Elayne's using it to benefit her monarchy illegitimately. At least, Egwene has that authority over Elayne as an Amryllin over an Aes Sedai, whether she could or would enforce it if push came to shove is a different question. If I were Egwene, I'd be worried about what kind of authority future Queens of Andor would have or try to exact over the Kin. She may not want to smack Elayne down publicly over something like that, though. Of course, anywhere the Kin go, they'd be under the authority of whoever rules there, so unless Egwene wants to host the Kin in Tar Valon, or they somehow figure out how to give the Kin their own city, there's not a lot of better options to do things differently.

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With Traveling public seatrade is pretty much dead. And that means the Sea Folk is about to lose the basis of their economy. Either the Kin or the Asha'man- if they don't just join the Aes Sedai- are bound to make a business out of it and when they do they'll soon have a monopoly on long distance transport. Sure the Windfinders can do the same, but as transport costs drop they couldn't support the rest of their people with it. Besides I doubt the rest of the Sea Folk would want to be their dependants.

 

True; but the Sea Folk have some very desirable goods that is grabbed quickly by customers throughout Randland. The Kin's gateways won't be moving those goods without the Sea Folk's involvement.

 

And we still haven't seen if Egwene will allow Elayne to uphold her agreement with the Kin; because Elayne did that without consulting her.

 

The only unique good the Sea Folk have is their porcelain.

 

Egwene doesn't have much choice. Which is why she was a bit miffed about it when she learned of it. She has to uphold it, because whether Elayne consulted her or not, Elayne bargained as an Aes Sedai for the White Tower and the Tower can't be seen breaking its word.

Porcelain production has ceased, as the Amayar are all dead.

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I wouldn't overestimate the effects of Travelling on trade. It is vastly faster, but also very resource-intensive. Most of the Kin and even quite a few Sedai have to link to pull it off, it's not an easy weave to do over and over on command, we see how quickly Grady and Neald get worn out from Traveling Perrin's army.

 

I don't think I'm overestimating the potential effect of Travelling. There are some 25 or so major towns and capitals in Randland. There are hundreds of Asha'man and most either can Travel or will be able to Travel once they complete their training and more than enough Kin to connect them. Grady and Neald only got worn out when they had to use it over and over again. There's no problem for either of them to open a Gateway two or three times a day to a day and tie it off. And everyone who passed through had to pay a fee depending on amount of goods and number of people.

 

 

If you use channelers for Travelling, then you can't use them for anything else while they're doing it.

 

Well, obviously. I think you are missunderstanding something. I'm not talking about channellers working for someone else. I'm talking about corporations made by channellers for channellers. For them Travelling would be work just like any other. Asha'man, Kin and the Windfinders are used to such work. They have done it all of their life in various crafts and are used to it. A channeller working for a corporation would work just as a smith or a farmer or a weaver or whatever.

 

It seems likely it'd be used mostly for items requiring high security or that have a high value that may not otherwise be profitable to trade. Bulk transport of raw materials and consumer goods would likely be so taxing on the channelers, with only modest profit gains from transport savings, that you'd be better off with traditional merchant trains, at least until those new steam engines come into common use.

 

I don't think you have thought this through. If there was such a thing as Travelling in our world I'd say whoever invented it would be the richest man on earth within a day. And that is inspite of trucks, trains, ships and airplanes all of which travel far faster than anything in Randland. In Randland most goods travel for weeks if not for months and the journey is far from cheap. The merchant has to pay for food, horses, guards, drivers and various other tolls through all the countries he travels. That's why goods are many times more expensive when they finally reach their destination. With Travelling most of those would be gone and every merchant would love to pay the difference if it got his goods to their destination within minutes or hours instead of weeks and months. And not just that. The speed of news between the countries will be in a different dimension. A merchant can find out within days where the demand for a certain product is particularly high and get there. Trade in Randland would explode.

 

Let's face it, there are more useful things channies could be doing than providing instant, fast transport for bulk trading goods on demand.

 

Not really. Transportation is biggest moneymaker channellers have. A close second is probably construction.

 

And Egwene certainly can overrule Elayne's Travelling ambitions for the Kin and may very well do so if she feels that Elayne's using it to benefit her monarchy illegitimately. At least, Egwene has that authority over Elayne as an Amryllin over an Aes Sedai, whether she could or would enforce it if push came to shove is a different question. If I were Egwene, I'd be worried about what kind of authority future Queens of Andor would have or try to exact over the Kin. She may not want to smack Elayne down publicly over something like that, though. Of course, anywhere the Kin go, they'd be under the authority of whoever rules there, so unless Egwene wants to host the Kin in Tar Valon, or they somehow figure out how to give the Kin their own city, there's not a lot of better options to do things differently.

 

Egwene may have authority over Elayne as an Aes Sedai, but not over Elayne the Queen. Egwene can't just force the Queen of Andor and Cairhien to do anything. And right now Egwene has no authority over the Kin either. Egwene may want to get them back under the fold, but with the throne of Andor sheltering them there isn't much she can do if they refuse unless she wants to get in direct conflict with Elayne.

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Egwene may have authority over Elayne as an Aes Sedai, but not over Elayne the Queen. Egwene can't just force the Queen of Andor and Cairhien to do anything.

 

The history of the WT suggests otherwise, heck just read RJ's notes on Cads alone...

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Egwene may have authority over Elayne as an Aes Sedai, but not over Elayne the Queen. Egwene can't just force the Queen of Andor and Cairhien to do anything.

 

The history of the WT suggests otherwise, heck just read RJ's notes on Cads alone...

 

? Elaborate please.

 

I don't think you have thought this through. If there was such a thing as Travelling in our world I'd say whoever invented it would be the richest man on earth within a day. And that is inspite of trucks, trains, ships and airplanes all of which travel far faster than anything in Randland. In Randland most goods travel for weeks if not for months and the journey is far from cheap. The merchant has to pay for food, horses, guards, drivers and various other tolls through all the countries he travels. That's why goods are many times more expensive when they finally reach their destination. With Travelling most of those would be gone and every merchant would love to pay the difference if it got his goods to their destination within minutes or hours instead of weeks and months. And not just that. The speed of news between the countries will be in a different dimension. A merchant can find out within days where the demand for a certain product is particularly high and get there. Trade in Randland would explode.

 

No doubt Randland is a lot smaller than out world though (I've often wondered just how much smaller). But you're correct, although I doubt seafolk trade is dead. Some people still mistrust channelers and will have nothing to do with it, and the Seafolk have their own channelers. At best channelers will transport people to specific locations to deliver good from that point.

 

Also I'd tend to think the amount of Ashaman who can travel without linking to be only slightly higher than the amount of females who can do it without linking (Given men are generally stronger) with the exception of any of those with a Talent for it, and we have only seen one. So even with 1000 channelers who can make gateways (How many can make one big enough for a wagon), how many want to do something that menial?

 

Porcelain production has ceased, as the Amayar are all dead.

 

Guess I missed where it was said that was the source. :(.

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Egwene may have authority over Elayne as an Aes Sedai, but not over Elayne the Queen. Egwene can't just force the Queen of Andor and Cairhien to do anything.

 

The history of the WT suggests otherwise, heck just read RJ's notes on Cads alone...

 

In relation to forcing Kings and Queens to do what they want and often being succesful(in addition to faling spectacularly at times).

 

As for Cads...

RJ

"It was also said that she kidnaped a King of Arad Doman and a Queen of Saldaea. After she released them, a war that had seemed inevitable simply faded away. She did actually spank or switch three reigning kings and four queens...wars stopped single-handedly; rulers steadied on their thrones, or pulled from them, sometimes toppled openly and sometimes more subtly"

 

A throwaway comment more thana nything else but true nonetheless.

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Egwene may have authority over Elayne as an Aes Sedai, but not over Elayne the Queen. Egwene can't just force the Queen of Andor and Cairhien to do anything.

 

The history of the WT suggests otherwise, heck just read RJ's notes on Cads alone...

 

I didn't say that Egwene couldn't politically outmaneuver Elayne to do what she wants, I said she couldn't just force her. And RJs notes on Cads really don't mean anything, since Elayne is a channeller herself and with guards and a warder she won't just get kidnapped by a lone Aes Sedai. And if the White Tower as a whole tried to kidnap her the Aes Sedai may quickly find theirselves at war with half of Randland. An attack on Elayne would be pretty much a declaration of war against Andor, Cairhien, Ghealdean and perhaps even Saldaea and Mayene. And armed with Dragons and other black powder weaponry that would mean Tar Valon's destruction in short order.

 

The days of Aes Sedai supremacy are over. The foundation of the authority the WT has is that they take the lead in the fight against the Shadow. Once the DO is defeated that foundation will disappear.

And not only that unless the Asha'man join them they will have a rival organisation which will be just as powerful in short order.

Also with the advent of firearms Aes Sedai will be a lot easier to kill so individual Aes Sedai will have to be far more careful, because they won't be nearly as invulnerable.

And finally the Seanchan completely reject the Aes Sedai and they are unlikely to change their minds. While I think Tuon will eventually give up on the practice of Damane she will continue to have channellers serve her. That's what Bethamin and Seta were about afterall.

 

The White Tower will remain powerful, but not nearly as much as they were. They will be reduced to the role of mediator instead of being the manipulator. And that's the role Aes Sedai should have.

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The days of Aes Sedai supremacy are over. The foundation of the authority the WT has is that they take the lead in the fight against the Shadow. Once the DO is defeated that foundation will disappear.

 

Shrug. I tend to think that they are truly just beginning and future references to "Great Arvalon" would seem to indicate that as well. With men and women working together they will get much closer to their true purpose and become even more powerful.

 

As to your fist statement I was just pointing out there are many ways to "force" her to do things and they certainly are capable of doing so. Not sure why the notes wouldn't mean anything when it clearly mentions "subtly". You focus on one tactic that obviously wouldn't be used in that situation.

Edited by Suttree
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