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tyanth

Wtf egwene?

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*Spoilers*

 

 

 

Tarmon gai'don is coming so you think its a good idea to rally rands enemies against him? The Aes Sedai failed the dragon in the past and it looks as if they may do so again.

 

I believe i once saw on here that Robert Jordan was credited for having written strong female characters into his books. To me it seems like half the women are arrogant and reckless. Elayne is pregnant and finds it difficult to channel at times so she decides to confront black ajah sisters without telling anyone?

 

I just finished all the books on audio so i can finally visit these forums without worrying about spoilers! :happy:

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Well you will find your sentiment has been well and truly expressed on this board:) I think there is a new Egwene bashing thread probably once a week on average.

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I actually still like Egwene. Between being very probably being compelled, standing up for what she believes in, and beating the crap out of Messaana, I think she's great. It's Elayne I can't stand. She's relatively worthless to the storyline, just another love interest. It would've been much better with just Aviendha and Min, tbh, because there's nothing special about Elayne. She's a queen and an Aes Sedai. Okay. Well, she's pregnant. Right now, neither of those are helpful.

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Sigh...

 

Please see this thread to discuss.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/59955-rand-and-egwene-at-the-fom/

 

The Aes Sedai failed the dragon in the past and it looks as if they may do so again.

 

Also you may want to check some more sources on this. Far from failing the Dragon, if the female AS had gone along with his plan the world would already be finished.

Edited by Suttree

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I actually still like Egwene. Between being very probably being compelled, standing up for what she believes in, and beating the crap out of Messaana, I think she's great. It's Elayne I can't stand. She's relatively worthless to the storyline, just another love interest. It would've been much better with just Aviendha and Min, tbh, because there's nothing special about Elayne. She's a queen and an Aes Sedai. Okay. Well, she's pregnant. Right now, neither of those are helpful.

 

Elayne's ter'angreal abilities will came in handy...I mean Mat was pretty much toast if he hadn't had those extra ter'angreal against the gholam. Besides without her ter'angreal Messaana would be alive and kicking...probably...and anyways she's important to the drama...I mean aeil are used to having 2 girls on 1 man marriages but what about 3 girls one man? That's unheard of even for them and that, my friend makes Elayne important.

 

Anyways I feel like I'm absolutely off-topic so I'm just gonna say that Egwene is simply doing what Rand ordered her to do... subconsciousness-ly. She can't help it - he's ta'veren + a master manipulator while she's a mere Amyrlin.

 

PS:"I believe i once saw on here that Robert Jordan was credited for having written strong female characters into his books. To me it seems like half the women are arrogant and reckless." You're just looking at the wrong women...try pre-ToM Cadsuane or Avienda or pre-Rand Min...or freaking Nyneave :nynaeve: .

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I haven't seen too many Egwene bashing threads since I started here. I've seen a couple comments about not liking her, but, as an Egwene fan, I haven't read any comments I felt were all that bad.

 

Also, I think she really should think more about why Rand would want to break the seals (Perrin sees his logic almost immediately), but it's part of the plot for her to bring people there to "stop him" from doing it. It wouldn't be a very believable scenario if everyone was like "oh, okay Rand. Go ahead and release the Dark One from his prison". That wouldn't make sense, and would completely ruin the books if Egwene didn't want to try to stop him.

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I actually still like Egwene. Between being very probably being compelled, standing up for what she believes in, and beating the crap out of Messaana, I think she's great. It's Elayne I can't stand. She's relatively worthless to the storyline, just another love interest. It would've been much better with just Aviendha and Min, tbh, because there's nothing special about Elayne. She's a queen and an Aes Sedai. Okay. Well, she's pregnant. Right now, neither of those are helpful.

 

Hmm, Egwene almost killed herself by not listening to Gawyn, Egwene tried to bind Perrin in the middle of a battle, he then saved her from Balefire. She then went on to being captured by Mesaana and only getting away because of Perrin.. Seems more like Egwene screwed up and then got saved by Perrin twice.

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For the record, Rand's gonna have to be saved by Perrin twice too. That's not a very solid argument.

 

What does Rand have to do with this? A lot of people have saved him. Probably more than have saved Egwene. Probably because he's in far more extremely dangerous situations than Egwene. This is just about the merits of Egwene's performance in this particular passage.

 

As it is, one must admit that were it not for Perrin bringing the dreamspike to TV, Egwene would probably be dead because: Mesaana would have been able to pull the aes sedai into a trap like she intended, and she could have just killed Egwene immediately instead of trying to question her about the dreamspike.

 

However, one must also admit that luck is part of a battle, that others (none of whom are bad guys I'd point out) have benefited from it as well, and that Egwene still had to show incredible bravery and willpower (some might say arrogance but still, it allowed her to kill a Forsaken so who cares) to overcome Mesaana.

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I haven't seen too many Egwene bashing threads since I started here. I've seen a couple comments about not liking her, but, as an Egwene fan, I haven't read any comments I felt were all that bad.

 

Also, I think she really should think more about why Rand would want to break the seals (Perrin sees his logic almost immediately), but it's part of the plot for her to bring people there to "stop him" from doing it. It wouldn't be a very believable scenario if everyone was like "oh, okay Rand. Go ahead and release the Dark One from his prison". That wouldn't make sense, and would completely ruin the books if Egwene didn't want to try to stop him.

You mustn't be reading the same threads as me:) I have seen plenty of comments long the lines of 'she should just get balefired'. I don't really like Egwene but it gets a bit boring when people just repeatedly bash her.

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I haven't seen too many Egwene bashing threads since I started here. I've seen a couple comments about not liking her, but, as an Egwene fan, I haven't read any comments I felt were all that bad.

 

Also, I think she really should think more about why Rand would want to break the seals (Perrin sees his logic almost immediately), but it's part of the plot for her to bring people there to "stop him" from doing it. It wouldn't be a very believable scenario if everyone was like "oh, okay Rand. Go ahead and release the Dark One from his prison". That wouldn't make sense, and would completely ruin the books if Egwene didn't want to try to stop him.

You mustn't be reading the same threads as me:) I have seen plenty of comments long the lines of 'she should just get balefired'. I don't really like Egwene but it gets a bit boring when people just repeatedly bash her.

 

oh there may be posts (i've only seen stuff like "i dont like her"), but not whole threads dedicated to hating her.. and i've seen more faile bashing than anything else. which never gets old or boring. haha.

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I haven't seen too many Egwene bashing threads since I started here. I've seen a couple comments about not liking her, but, as an Egwene fan, I haven't read any comments I felt were all that bad.

 

Also, I think she really should think more about why Rand would want to break the seals (Perrin sees his logic almost immediately), but it's part of the plot for her to bring people there to "stop him" from doing it. It wouldn't be a very believable scenario if everyone was like "oh, okay Rand. Go ahead and release the Dark One from his prison". That wouldn't make sense, and would completely ruin the books if Egwene didn't want to try to stop him.

You mustn't be reading the same threads as me:) I have seen plenty of comments long the lines of 'she should just get balefired'. I don't really like Egwene but it gets a bit boring when people just repeatedly bash her.

 

oh there may be posts (i've only seen stuff like "i dont like her"), but not whole threads dedicated to hating her.. and i've seen more faile bashing than anything else. which never gets old or boring. haha.

 

Yeah often the threads don't just start out as Egwene bashing threads they just turn into it as some people seem unable to read her name without launching into a diatribe listing all her faults. But it's started to be better late. Haven't seen too much Faile hate but I agree with you that that would never get old or boring:).

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People do understand that Rand WANTED this to happen right? She's gathering the world's armies, and even transporting them, Including Tear, for the last battle. He could have tried to talk her into, but he didn't. He just acted like he was having trouble keeping his grip on his sanity and told her that he was going to do what they been afraid of happening since book 1. And what is she giving him? The world's greatest military force right where he wants them.

 

I mean do you expect she could stand by and let this happen? Protecting the seals has been a mission since they found them. It's not only in her job description, its in her job title! She's the Watcher of the Seals. I don't think they meant watching rand break them.

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sandoz-- +5 for the faile comment haha :)

 

haggis-- you are absolutely right! i hadn't ever thought of that as more than just a title haha.. woops.

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Well, to the point of how she acted when she saw Perrin in T'A'R, you have to look at it from her perspective. Think about it, one of the last people she would've expected to see there, suddenly shows up, and seems to have pretty good control. Her first thought was very likely that it was a trap of some sort, and that's why she wrapped him up. I'm talking of course from memory, so if her thoughts or whatever said that she was thinking differently, my apologies.

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Regarding 'Egwene bashing'...

 

If you look closely, many of the threads that supposedly bash Egwene actually bring up a vast number of good points against her. There are admittedly a number of users who do hate on her excessively without providing a good argument, but actually reading the Egwene topics all the way through will reveal that they are very much in the minority. The problem is the sheer number of anti-Egwene topics, which results in many long-time users who have seen it all before becoming exasperated and deciding to unilaterally label them as bashing topics even when they might actually have a point. After the fifth or sixth topic criticizing Egwene pops up I can understand the frustration even if I don't particularly like the character.

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Regarding 'Egwene bashing'...

 

If you look closely, many of the threads that supposedly bash Egwene actually bring up a vast number of good points against her. There are admittedly a number of users who do hate on her excessively without providing a good argument, but actually reading the Egwene topics all the way through will reveal that they are very much in the minority. The problem is the sheer number of anti-Egwene topics, which results in many long-time users who have seen it all before becoming exasperated and deciding to unilaterally label them as bashing topics even when they might actually have a point. After the fifth or sixth topic criticizing Egwene pops up I can understand the frustration even if I don't particularly like the character.

+1 - agree with every word you have written. And you have explained it better than I could have.

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*Spoilers*

 

 

 

Tarmon gai'don is coming so you think its a good idea to rally rands enemies against him? The Aes Sedai failed the dragon in the past and it looks as if they may do so again.

 

I believe i once saw on here that Robert Jordan was credited for having written strong female characters into his books. To me it seems like half the women are arrogant and reckless. Elayne is pregnant and finds it difficult to channel at times so she decides to confront black ajah sisters without telling anyone?

 

I just finished all the books on audio so i can finally visit these forums without worrying about spoilers! :happy:

 

It was what he wanted her to do. And she isn't trying to antagonize him for perks or anything; she's gathering all his support into one place so that he might listen to them better, not to fight against him. And it wasn't that the Aes Sedai failed the Dragon in the past. The Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends were a completely different brand of channelers (they were both male and female for one, and there were no Ajahs). And I think RJ mentioned that it wasn't known for sure if it would have been a good idea for the females to have taken part in Sealing the Dark One : They might have succeeded or saidar might have also been tainted, which would have been disastrous for the world.

 

But I agree partly with the strong females thing. I do think that most of the females are strong in the series, but I find it a little irritating that they're all so convinced they're always right. But I think some of them are likeable anyways, and they have other qualities that make up for the obnoxiousness.

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My big problem is so many hate threads are filled with double standards. They complain about the girls being arrogant and reckless and then they put Rand on a pedestal despite the fact that he's often the poster boy for being arrogant and reckless.

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Egwene is probably my least favorite character, but at least she's consistent. Pretty much the first time that we see her it's mentioned that she's incredibly stubborn and hates being told what to do.

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*Spoilers*

 

 

 

Tarmon gai'don is coming so you think its a good idea to rally rands enemies against him? The Aes Sedai failed the dragon in the past and it looks as if they may do so again.

 

I believe i once saw on here that Robert Jordan was credited for having written strong female characters into his books. To me it seems like half the women are arrogant and reckless. Elayne is pregnant and finds it difficult to channel at times so she decides to confront black ajah sisters without telling anyone?

 

I just finished all the books on audio so i can finally visit these forums without worrying about spoilers! :happy:

 

It was what he wanted her to do. And she isn't trying to antagonize him for perks or anything; she's gathering all his support into one place so that he might listen to them better, not to fight against him. And it wasn't that the Aes Sedai failed the Dragon in the past. The Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends were a completely different brand of channelers (they were both male and female for one, and there were no Ajahs). And I think RJ mentioned that it wasn't known for sure if it would have been a good idea for the females to have taken part in Sealing the Dark One : They might have succeeded or saidar might have also been tainted, which would have been disastrous for the world.

 

But I agree partly with the strong females thing. I do think that most of the females are strong in the series, but I find it a little irritating that they're all so convinced they're always right. But I think some of them are likeable anyways, and they have other qualities that make up for the obnoxiousness.

 

She's made it pretty clear that she means to oppose Rand. She hasn't gone to listen to Rand. Egwene may be doing exactly what Rand wanted but that's not an excuse for her doing it. As for fighting him, well I doubt it would come to that but Egwene did say she hoped Rand did not force her hand, so take that as you will.

As for the female aes sedai taking part in the Sealing it would have been a bad idea per RJ:

 

Q: Why saidin, why not saidar, was tainted?

RJ: Because there were only men in the party that made up the party that made up the Strike at Shayol Ghul, that were setting the seals. In the act of setting the seals, there was a backblast that affected the people doing this. As I pointed out in something…I wrote a piece called The Strike at Shayol Ghul…there was a great division at the time – I don’t know if all of you have read it…or have none of you read it?

Q: Yes, yes.

RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”26 , which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.

 

That said no one predicted the taint or even thought such a thing was possible, so that's not why LPD refused to help LTT.

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My big problem is so many hate threads are filled with double standards. They complain about the girls being arrogant and reckless and then they put Rand on a pedestal despite the fact that he's often the poster boy for being arrogant and reckless.

 

I think because he takes so much crap from the world in general, it's easier for people to forgive him his shortcomings. Also it's more understandable that he becomes arrogant when he's the Dragon Reborn and is tasked with saving the world, a world that is filled with people who, for the large majority, probably wouldn't mind if he slipped and cracked his head.

As for recklesseness, well I think he takes plenty of crap for that. The rebels camp in Cairhien and Far Madding are just two instances when people were irritated with him.

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My big problem is so many hate threads are filled with double standards. They complain about the girls being arrogant and reckless and then they put Rand on a pedestal despite the fact that he's often the poster boy for being arrogant and reckless.

Definitely agree. Rand is the most reckless character by far yet doesn't get a third of the criticism for it that the Supergirls do. A few examples:

 

"Hey, I just got Healed from a mortal wound and can barely stand, now is the perfect time to attack Sammael".

 

"I have a thousand channelling Wise Ones who'd gladly serve as my bodyguards but I'd meet Elaida's representatives on my own to make it easier for them to capture me."

 

"I feel ta'veren today, I am going on a date with my girlfriend in the camp of the thousands of rebels who hate me".

 

He's not risking just himself, he's risking the whole world. Really stupid.

Edited by David Selig

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I agree, Rand is by far more reckless than any of the Feminazis. If it were any other character save the main protagonist he'd be long dead.

 

That said, I still like Rand more than Egwene. I cannot get over the hypocrisy of the Amyrlin.

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