How bad of a problem are Darkfriends?

[Awakened]

I remember at the beginning of this book, particularly in The Great Hunt, it was mentioned that human civilization was collapsing. Kingdoms failed and were over taken by forests, their names forgotten. Meanwhile the human race dwindled. This makes me wonder, are the Dark Friends more than just a social club that meets in secret on Saturday Nights, or do they actively work to undermine human civilization? Could the reason that the human race is in such a bad spot right now be because Dark Friends really are running as rampant as the White Cloaks claim?

[jwood01]

Interesting idea. I am curious to know if the percentage of darkfriends has increased since the weakening of the seals on the DO's prison. Also, I wonder if it fluctuated overtime, i.e. rising whenever Ishy is runnign free in the world.

[mb]

Darkfriends are not the only people to blame.

All people (and various creatures) can have flaws.

And Nature in general can cause bad things.

 

All that (and respective "opposites") are all part of the Pattern.

[Awakened]

Darkfriends are not the only people to blame.

All people (and various creatures) can have flaws.

And Nature in general can cause bad things.

 

All that (and respective "opposites") are all part of the Pattern.

 

Yes, but natural progression shows that human civilization naturally expands rather than contracts. Randland is a world that is dying off. Civilization is degrading, the Aes Sedai are all loafing around in Tar Valon making pillow friends while the Blight advances, and the number of humans in the world are dwindling. It makes sense to think that there is some sort of organized conspiracy to blame for all of this. And with Darkfriends it is possible.

[EvilSocrates]

I think a subset of Darkfriends, the Black Ajah, probably do a ton of harm by causing wars and assassinating people and so forth. Other powerful Darkfriends might cause problems too. I always wondered if the Shadow was somehow behind Laman's Pride, for example. Run of the mill darkfriends? Probably not a HUGE problem. The real issue is that there keeps being a huge crisis every time society starts to get itself back together (The Years of Madness, The Trolloc Wars, the 100 year war, the Aiel War). All the nations are essentially conservative--they stick to tried and true forms of commerce, technology, and geopolitical strategy. The constant wars between the neighbors also mean that people cannot really expand, and are sort of just forced to hold on the best the can.

 

Also, the the Spectre of the Age of Legends is there. People associate wonders and progress with magic, not with technology.

[Elvira_Sedai]

The DFs are mostly just selfish , care about their own good , not about great evil things . Yes , they can do those thing IF someone high-ranking , like Forsaken , order them , but it isn't their main goal or the most common reason to serve the DO .

[sandoz12]

Yeah I think the Black Ajah did a huge amount of damage. The White Tower could have had such a beneficial effect on the world yet it didn't - largely (I believe) due to the work of the Black Ajah in spreading dissent, confusion and undermining any genuinely good plans.

[Blackhoof]

i think that DF's have had a hand in most of the major wars and disasters that have plagued randland over the millennia. Laman probably had a DF advisor whispering how great a chair that tree would make, for one thing.

[Hyronimus]

i've been waiting to see dark friends out in force since the beginning of FoH when drakfriends attacked calling out sammeal(sp?) and the three bees. so few have declared themselves.

 

for a time a thought the brotherless would prove to be darkfriends but i'd say one of the more interesting developments is with Eylane's admirer DH. gaining the talisman makes him just that much more important. He's likely leading men in camyln. I'd like to see him team up with taim leading soldiers supporting dark ashaman.

 

a contender to kill bridget (i'm convinced she must die), though who else could do it? a forsaken? that vixen assassin?

[Awakened]

The DFs are mostly just selfish , care about their own good , not about great evil things . Yes , they can do those thing IF someone high-ranking , like Forsaken , order them , but it isn't their main goal or the most common reason to serve the DO .

 

And how do they serve the Dark One?

[Apple13]

I remember at the beginning of this book, particularly in The Great Hunt, it was mentioned that human civilization was collapsing. Kingdoms failed and were over taken by forests, their names forgotten. Meanwhile the human race dwindled. This makes me wonder, are the Dark Friends more than just a social club that meets in secret on Saturday Nights, or do they actively work to undermine human civilization? Could the reason that the human race is in such a bad spot right now be because Dark Friends really are running as rampant as the White Cloaks claim?

I think the Darkfriends mostly meddle in the background causing things to fall apart little by little. But the big problems are probably caused by people who are aligned with the Light but are also stupid, gullible and/or selfish that are in charge (like Elaida). Though the Darkfriends might help.

 

A question though: are there many Darkfriends among the Aiel? The only one we have seen is Melindra(?) I think. Do the Aiel just have effective ways of finding out and getting rid of Darkfriends?

[Erunion]

I remember at the beginning of this book, particularly in The Great Hunt, it was mentioned that human civilization was collapsing. Kingdoms failed and were over taken by forests, their names forgotten. Meanwhile the human race dwindled. This makes me wonder, are the Dark Friends more than just a social club that meets in secret on Saturday Nights, or do they actively work to undermine human civilization? Could the reason that the human race is in such a bad spot right now be because Dark Friends really are running as rampant as the White Cloaks claim?

I think the Darkfriends mostly meddle in the background causing things to fall apart little by little. But the big problems are probably caused by people who are aligned with the Light but are also stupid, gullible and/or selfish that are in charge (like Elaida). Though the Darkfriends might help.

 

A question though: are there many Darkfriends among the Aiel? The only one we have seen is Melindra(?) I think. Do the Aiel just have effective ways of finding out and getting rid of Darkfriends?

 

The Aiel might have an effective anti-darkfriend system, but I think it more likely to simply be cultural. Among the Aiel, Honour and Obligation (ji'e'toh (sp?)) is everything. It is the core tenant of their culture, and to go against it in any way is seen as nearly unthinkable. Being a Darkfriend would be going against it in a horrifically massive way. While it does happen, don't expect it to occur as much as it does in the wetlands, where cultural responsibility is less important and things like Trollocs and Darkfriends are considered as myths, or as half-believed boogey-men.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

... natural progression shows that human civilization naturally expands rather than contracts.

 

it appears that way to us because we mostly belong to a civilization that has been expanding.

 

lots of civilizations have died. great big huge thriving ones. gone like pfft.

 

things become extinct.

 

i suspect so will we, and the civilization we rode in on.

 

and a new one may replace us for a while.

[rand4747]

... natural progression shows that human civilization naturally expands rather than contracts.

 

it appears that way to us because we mostly belong to a civilization that has been expanding.

 

lots of civilizations have died. great big huge thriving ones. gone like pfft.

 

things become extinct.

 

i suspect so will we, and the civilization we rode in on.

 

and a new one may replace us for a while.

 

Alot of europe has lost population before due to massive wars and disease, drought etc. Randland though might not be declining as much as is thought, just that there has been alot of migrating to fewer cities so those cities are becoming huge and cities in weak kingdoms failed.

[solarz]

The real issue is that there keeps being a huge crisis every time society starts to get itself back together (The Years of Madness, The Trolloc Wars, the 100 year war, the Aiel War).

 

The two most destructive events were the Trolloc Wars and the 100 year war. Both destroyed what had been flourishing civilizations: the Ten Nations Covenant, and the Hawkwing Empire.

 

Perhaps not so surprisingly, both were caused by Ishamael, first by unleashing the Trollocs in a frontal assault on humanity, and then through manipulation, by sending Hawkwing's heir across the Aryth Ocean.

[Apple13]

I remember at the beginning of this book, particularly in The Great Hunt, it was mentioned that human civilization was collapsing. Kingdoms failed and were over taken by forests, their names forgotten. Meanwhile the human race dwindled. This makes me wonder, are the Dark Friends more than just a social club that meets in secret on Saturday Nights, or do they actively work to undermine human civilization? Could the reason that the human race is in such a bad spot right now be because Dark Friends really are running as rampant as the White Cloaks claim?

I think the Darkfriends mostly meddle in the background causing things to fall apart little by little. But the big problems are probably caused by people who are aligned with the Light but are also stupid, gullible and/or selfish that are in charge (like Elaida). Though the Darkfriends might help.

 

A question though: are there many Darkfriends among the Aiel? The only one we have seen is Melindra(?) I think. Do the Aiel just have effective ways of finding out and getting rid of Darkfriends?

 

The Aiel might have an effective anti-darkfriend system, but I think it more likely to simply be cultural. Among the Aiel, Honour and Obligation (ji'e'toh (sp?)) is everything. It is the core tenant of their culture, and to go against it in any way is seen as nearly unthinkable. Being a Darkfriend would be going against it in a horrifically massive way. While it does happen, don't expect it to occur as much as it does in the wetlands, where cultural responsibility is less important and things like Trollocs and Darkfriends are considered as myths, or as half-believed boogey-men.

 

Yeah, ji'e'toh makes more sense, I think that's probably the reason.

[mb]

Blight advancing, the most recent time for darkfriends to be involved with that I take to be Manetheren.

The Dark One gaining power seems to be a more likely cause for the Blight to advance.

 

Number of people dwindling could have been due to the fights against the 3 new false dragons.

 

Aes Sedia making pillow friends, not all those would be due to darkfriends or Black Ajah.

 

Civilization degrading, part of that could have been due to Daes Daemar.

 

 

Like I told earlier, darkfriends are only partly to blame.

[Blackhoof]

1. fair enough

2. people have been dwindliung more than that, and i think that at least some of those false dragons were darkfriends or darkfriend-supported

3. i doubt the black ajah would support lesbianism amongst the tower lol. i think the pillow friends thing was an example that they were not doing their job.

4.i doubt one nation's internal bickering could have an effect upon the whole world, but it would certainly have degraded life in cairhien.