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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Self-Fulfilling Prophecies


Pantherus
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How would you have expected him to respond? IMO that is totaly consistent with Mat's charater, like for instance when he blows the horn of valere way before the last battle because "noone said we couldn't".

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I guess the argument stands about them fulfilling each others' prophecies.

 

I don't know if it's conflicting - but I DO like self-fulfilling prophecies of the sort where a person hears of it, actively goes out to try and avoid/stop it, and inadvertently makes it happen - as someone mentioned, like they do in the Matrix with the vase. Or more locally - the whole killing kids to try and kill the DR before he grows up; and it's parallel of King Herid trying to kill Christ as a baby.

 

I guess it just rankles a little that Mat hears his destiny is to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons, he actively looks for her (asking various woman if they know what it means) and then when he finds her, he's all "Whelp, guess you're my Wife, the Snakes told me so! YOINK!"

 

While this is true, He was asking women if the name meant anything to them. To me it didn't come accross like he was actively looking for her so they could get married. It read more like if one of those women had said it did mean something to her he'd be running before she finished the sentence.

 

When it actually came to Tuon, he didn't know who she was until right at that moment. The words came out, he decided to kidnap her. I see that as reasonable - if he hadn't she would have raised the alarm, if for no other reason then to get him back. Remember she was already interested in him because of the ring. He kidnaps her, which fulfills part of her prophecy - that he knows nothing about (nor do we, at this point)

 

after that - the relationship, I see it as he had already said the words, everyone already knows he thinks he is going to marry her - he may as well make the best of it. He knew there was no point trying to avoid it. She was waiting for more confirmation that this was the man from her prophecy. Mat already knows she is the one from his. If I were going to be forced to marry someone, no matter what I wanted I guess I would find something to like about that person, and thats what I think Mat did.

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In line with his character, maybe (though initially he actively tries to avoid it, but anyway :)) but as a literary device I just don't like - it's borderline Deus Ex Machina.

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In line with his character, maybe (though initially he actively tries to avoid it, but anyway :)) but as a literary device I just don't like - it's borderline Deus Ex Machina.

 

Lol - so are a lot of other things in this series. :tongue:

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Fulfilled because the person hears it; "self fulfilling" seems to be the wrong term. "Right" term, I am not sure.

 

 

Like others told, Prophecy becomes fulfilled regardless of the person/people being told or not.

And if they are told beforehand, it becomes fulfilled regardless of them interpreting right or wrong; even if they force their own interpretation.

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In line with his character, maybe (though initially he actively tries to avoid it, but anyway :)) but as a literary device I just don't like - it's borderline Deus Ex Machina.

 

Lol - so are a lot of other things in this series. :tongue:

 

True!

 

 

Fulfilled because the person hears it; "self fulfilling" seems to be the wrong term. "Right" term, I am not sure.

 

 

Like others told, Prophecy becomes fulfilled regardless of the person/people being told or not.

And if they are told beforehand, it becomes fulfilled regardless of them interpreting right or wrong; even if they force their own interpretation.

 

I suppose so - I like the situations where they're told a prophecy, actively go out to fulfil/stop it, and in the process, ensure it fulfilled...but this one was just too straightforward, he hear's he is fated to marry the daughter of the nine moons, asks around and eventually finds the daughter of the nine moons (it was even figurative, it literally was her title!), and marries her - now it didn't happen like he intended (he didn't realise saying it 3 times was the ceremony for example)...

 

Even Rand going out to gain Callandor didn't happen quite as he expected, he needed the Aiel to coincidentally show up as well...

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