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How long has it been since we saw Loial?


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I don't know if this was a topic for an earlier post or not. I did a quick search and didn't find anything recent.

 

I keep waiting for Loial to show up at the head of a small army of chanting Ogier, spending equal amounts of time swinging long-handled axes and singing songs of growing to aid Rand's re-closure of the Bore.

 

Any ideas about whether Loial and his non-Seanchan brethren will have a major impact in the Last Battle? Or is he to be relegated to the role of bystander and scribe--simply a historian for the benefit of members of a later age who want to know something about this odd Al'Thor fellow?

 

I had hoped to see something of a Moiraine-in-the-Two-Rivers moment for Loial, giving the impassioned speech that reminds his listeners of who they are, who they once were, and what their duties are to the future. Anyone have any info from signings or conventions about what the plan is for our great tuft-eared friend?

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I don't know if this was a topic for an earlier post or not. I did a quick search and didn't find anything recent.

 

I keep waiting for Loial to show up at the head of a small army of chanting Ogier, spending equal amounts of time swinging long-handled axes and singing songs of growing to aid Rand's re-closure of the Bore.

 

Any ideas about whether Loial and his non-Seanchan brethren will have a major impact in the Last Battle? Or is he to be relegated to the role of bystander and scribe--simply a historian for the benefit of members of a later age who want to know something about this odd Al'Thor fellow?

 

I had hoped to see something of a Moiraine-in-the-Two-Rivers moment for Loial, giving the impassioned speech that reminds his listeners of who they are, who they once were, and what their duties are to the future. Anyone have any info from signings or conventions about what the plan is for our great tuft-eared friend?

 

 

I think his role will be relatively small since everything that's still in the air has to get wrapped up in one book (they should already be a lot closer to it before this book). I do recall that Loial was getting the other Ogier involved in the war against the Shadow, so I'm sure he and they will at least be in some battles, but I'm thinking no more than a page or two max where he is speaking, if that.

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Many hope to have the occasion to read Loial's speech at the Stomp. That would certainly fit among the best chapter in WoT, if well written. So yes, we'll probably see that, but it hasn't happened yet. the last we hear from loial is ToM introduction with Loial readying his speech. And frankly I don't think we have enough information to put that on a timeline.

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In ToM, it is implied that his speech at the Great Stump was what convinced the Ogier to not open the Book of Translation and fight alongside the humans. It is unlikely we will actually see him give the speech however.

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It's kind of a shame to see Loial so marginalized in recent books. His reluctance and his lack of a focus on himself were both very refreshing characteristics. They came off very real, very much in keeping with his bookishness and his kindness.

 

I really hope we get to hear his speech. It would be difficult to write, true. Even a second-hand report of the effect of his speech, say... by his mother?... would be nice. I'd like to hear her break down a little bit and acknowledge Loial's wisdom and eat a bit of crow herself.

 

Regardless, the dramatic possibilities of a formerly stoic and passive population rising up and following Loial into battle--especially with a rolling, booming, baritone war chant cresting the hill ahead of them--should not be overlooked. I'm picturing something similar in my mind to the ents marching on Isengard---"hoom-HOM!"

 

Just my two cents. Still wondering if anyone else has heard of anything coming?? Sounds like several folks are hoping to hear the speech before the Stump. I'm hoping for that and a bit more, to tell the truth. I'd give up a few dozen pages of Mat's lame jokes or a few hundred pages of Aes Sedai plotting or the entire last appearance of pregnant Elayne to see a bit more of Loial at the end.

 

Meh. What are the chances of that, though?

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I'd do away with any Faile mention stuff and replace it with Loial as well as Elayne Baths. Loial is much more interesting than those two, hands down :)

 

I've also always put the similarities with the Ents when talkinga about the Ogiers, though perhaps the Green Man was more akin to the Ents than the Ogiers are. Elves created the Ents, where Aes Sedai (male and female) created the Nymh. Neither were created by the Creator/Eru. Ogier, on the other hand, are said to come from a different world all together (like the Raken and other Seanchan exotics).

 

Other than fighting, I don't know what else the Ogier might be doing. One book is simply too few to get answers to every question and with Aviendha's latest revelation... the future doesn't look too good. The only one we know for a fact will survive past TG (as a person or as a race) is Mat and the Seanchan. The rest.... we really don't know. So perhaps the Ogier will fight and then open the Book, afterwards. Return back to their homeworld.

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I was really looking forward to Loial meeting a Deathwatch Gardener, but i suppose that won't truly be important to the overall story. It does relate quite well to the whole Ent aspect of never meeting. Especially if you remember Ham Gamgee (I think it was Sams dad? the old gardener?) talking about seeing trees that were walking (which could have been the Entwives) in the first book.

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I'd love to see more of loial, and as far as the mention in ToM goes I'm curious as to the implications of the dead being seen at the edges of the stedding. i recall loial wondering if the ogier dead would be seen and how sad that would be. It seems different then the dead seen so far. Is there a clue in the stedding for the ending? I'm curious as to what people think.

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Towers of Midnight book tour 8 November 2010 Lincoln Triangle Barnes and Noble NY, NY - Sarayne reporting

 

Q: Will we see the Ogier again?

Brandon: Yes. There will be more of them in the last book. Not a lot but they will be there.

 

 

DragonCon 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting

 

Q: So will there ever be a confrontation between the Seanchan Ogier and the other Ogier?

RJ: They will meet..

 

Note: for the second quote, technically, it may already of happened. Loial went to Ebu Dar with Logain and Bashere and he could have seen them there.

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I hope we get to see Loial in the comming events. I´m looking forward to the meeting between Randland ogier and Seanchan ogier. I think they will do their best in the battle and then open the book of translation. (Loial would of course write down the end of his book first.)

 

There will be a WOT encyclopedia (sp?)after AMOL. Maybe we will be able to read about Loials speech there?

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I'd love to see more of loial, and as far as the mention in ToM goes I'm curious as to the implications of the dead being seen at the edges of the stedding. i recall loial wondering if the ogier dead would be seen and how sad that would be. It seems different then the dead seen so far. Is there a clue in the stedding for the ending? I'm curious as to what people think.

That's an interesting question. Steddings don't seem to quite belong to this world given that they are not reachable in TAR so this might be related to the fact that even the Ogier dead can not enter them. There are quite a few strange things about steddings that are always RAFOd when asked so they might playe some role however, I have a hard time seeing how it could be a big one given that they are not movable.

 

BTW, I do expect that Loial will show up at Shayol Ghul in the final battle as he promised Rand that he will do so.

Edited by herid
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Who knows? I certainly hope to see Loial and the Ogier armies, but if past books are of any indication RJ and I have vastly different views on what should and shouldn't get attention in the novels.

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In ToM, it is implied that his speech at the Great Stump was what convinced the Ogier to not open the Book of Translation and fight alongside the humans. It is unlikely we will actually see him give the speech however.

 

I agree we won't see the speech.

Remember the Ogier write, and speak, and build things, better then any Human, so I don't think Sanderson should try to pull it off. Even with Loial's "Simply Put" style of speaking, it should be quite eloquent.

I think we've already seen proof that not only does he convince them to join the humans, we know he'll survive the Last Battle and write his book about Rand.

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When the Ogier open the book of translation will that affect all of the ogiers? or only the westland ogiers?

I've wondered about this too. But since nobody really knows what this book of translation is or how it works, it's impossible to say for sure. It does seem like it should affect all of them somehow simply based on the fact that there are supposed to be ages (like ours) with no Ogier around. But it's also possible that the book of translation simply works like a large gateway to some parallel world and the Ogier have to enter it. This might be one of the things that does not get resolved in the main WOT series. Throughout the story we are given snippets from Loial's book, presumably printed some time in the 4th age. so if the Ogier do leave ,it might not happen for a while after the main story ends.

Edited by herid
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What if the book of translation is a translator for the portal stones? I forget in what book, I think it was tGH or DR. Lanfear or Verin or someone explained that they could used to transport the user to a different world. I'm just pulling that out of my ass but hey it might be it.

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I think we will see the ogier only briefly. they will join in battles, Loial will have one or two lines, and that's pretty much it. He's done his job by getting the Ogier to fight, that's probably the end of his story arc.

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I think we will see the ogier only briefly. they will join in battles, Loial will have one or two lines, and that's pretty much it. He's done his job by getting the Ogier to fight, that's probably the end of his story arc.

Some long-shot possibilities involving Ogier.

1) They have long memories and written histories of periods humans have forgotten. Maybe Loial or Elder Haman will let drop something regarding Callandor, which helps Rand work out a strategy for warding off the GLoD. Alternatively, they may have a strategy for turning all of WoTland into one vast stedding (lonnng shot) - a no channeling/ no shadowspawn world.

2) They might intermediate positively with the Seanchan Gardeners and help bring about an alliance. Tuon would be more kindly inclined towards the DR if, apart from her husband, her most trusted troops are also kin to one of Rand's allies.

3) They may be Compelled and end up serving the GLoD (very loooong shot)

4) The Sing Song of course.

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2) They might intermediate positively with the Seanchan Gardeners and help bring about an alliance. Tuon would be more kindly inclined towards the DR if, apart from her husband, her most trusted troops are also kin to one of Rand's allies.

That's an interesting point. the Seanchan claim they came in peace, but the mainland people have forgotten their oaths and roles and they were "forced to remind them".

... But the Ogier do not forget, perhaps they'll have some new/old facts that were lost to the Seanchan as well, something that can tip the balance. after all the dragon is supposed to 'bind the nine moons to serve him' somehow.

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I just wonder how long the Stump will take if someone reminds them that not all of the Ogier have been represented. I mean how can they send the Seachan Ogiers off without consulting them?=

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Probably been said but it seems kind of obvious to me that Loial will lead an army of Ogier to the last battle to fight alongside Rand. Not to fall back on more Lord of the Rings comparisons but the Ogier clearly fill the role of the elves. In fact, I found the whole concept of the Ogier opening the book and leaving middle earth being brought up for the first time so late in the series kind of cliche', the lawful good eternal reluctant warriors sticking around to lend a hand to the puny mortal humans as they fight the dark one.

Edited by HighWiredSith
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Some long-shot possibilities involving Ogier.

1) They have long memories and written histories of periods humans have forgotten. Maybe Loial or Elder Haman will let drop something regarding Callandor, which helps Rand work out a strategy for warding off the GLoD. Alternatively, they may have a strategy for turning all of WoTland into one vast stedding (lonnng shot) - a no channeling/ no shadowspawn world.

2) They might intermediate positively with the Seanchan Gardeners and help bring about an alliance. Tuon would be more kindly inclined towards the DR if, apart from her husband, her most trusted troops are also kin to one of Rand's allies.

3) They may be Compelled and end up serving the GLoD (very loooong shot)

4) The Sing Song of course.

 

1 - true. Loial told Moiraine that Be'lal was called the Webspinner or something in TDR meaning he plots a lot, something she did not know (although I can't say it was all that useful) but yes, maybe an Ogier will reveal the key to callandor, which seems to be the major mystery related to the final battle.

2 - must admit I am disappointed we have not seen this so far. Loial DID talk to the gardeners in that false embassy leading to Semirhage's ambush, and we've heard nothing more. I suppose it IS possible it will play a bigger role, after all we have Seanchan gearing up for a second and more cataclysmic attack on the White Tower, although Egwene's Dream suggests it is a female Seanchan like Leilwin shipless who is the key.

3 - Yeah I cant see it.

4 - I dont think we will see the Aiel, Tinkers or Ogier recovering the song anytime soon. Unless they do chapters set years after the last battle

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