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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Mesaana as Aes Sedai Danelle of the Brown Ajah


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This is my first time posting here in a very long time, so I hope this is in the right area. I have already read the WoT series but I am starting to do a re-read, and I remembered about Mesaana's identity. I remember once before reading on here about how everyone knew it was going to be Danelle, but I myself completely missed this (as ashamed as I am to say that ^^;) So I ask now, what should I be looking for in my re-read that gave this fact away prior to Towers of Midnight?

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TBH, I can't think of anything that gave her away, other than being part of Elaida's uprising, then pretty much dropping off the map.

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I believe she recruited the masons working on Elaida's palace who ended up joining in with the fighting. Also, I think she was described at one point as having no friends.

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This is my first time posting here in a very long time, so I hope this is in the right area. I have already read the WoT series but I am starting to do a re-read, and I remembered about Mesaana's identity. I remember once before reading on here about how everyone knew it was going to be Danelle,

I don't know about everybody thinking that. This seemed to have been a popular theory among hardcore WOT fans but I don't know if there was a consensus about it. Old dragonmount FAQs give a good overview of the issue.

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if I remember correctly, there's a scene where Alviarion is talking to Mesaana and said she had a chimy voice and light eyes with a dreamy look or something very similar then a few pages later Alviarion passes Danelle and she's described in a very similar manner as Mesaana was. I remember right then that I assumed they were the same person

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We also have Verin in tGS mention that she know or believe Mesaana is in the Tower, and she also mention something in the lines that she is probably hiding as someone who have no real interaction with others, or something like that. Dont know if she even mention it in the context of Mesaana, but Verin do make hints about it being someone secluded.

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Danelle was active in the movement to depose Siuan, and when it actually occurred from Siuan's PoV, she acted very different from the way she was described other times.

"...her big blue eyes not dreamy at all."
Her cold rage should have sent them scurrying, but though a few shifted uneasily, none made a move toward the door. Little Danelle actually smirked at her.
She was also the person that requested all the 'masons' for work in the library that turned out to be mercenaries that tried to seize the tower after the announcement.

 

She then served on Elaida's council for a time (presumably to make sure things were going in a suitably poor direction), until she was 'brushed aside' to go back to her normal 'dreamy Brown Ajah loner with no friends' personality.

 

Later, we find out that Mesaana has large blue eyes, and when her disguise is lifted by Shaidar Haran in CoT A Mark, Alviarin finds her very familiar looking. Basically she is using illusion to give herself the 'ageless' look to pass as Danelle. Blue eyes are also not extremely prevalent amongst the Aes Sedai that had any possibility of being Mesaana.

 

My memory is hazy on how many times Alviarin met with Mesaana, but I know that at least one of those times (perhaps more) she notices Danelle in the hallways nearby at about that time.

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I wouldnt feel to bad for not finding it, after reading only once (I think?) and even twice or three times. (Before ToM came out, obviously.)

 

It wasnt something easily picked up really, unless you are actually looking for it.

 

A few things that are pointed out, some already mentioned, most of these can be found looking closely at Elaida chapters, Aliviarin and Suian in books 3-4.

 

As mentioned, Danelle ordred the masons in, this from Suian in 3-4.

 

Danelle there when deposing of Suian.

 

Her and Mesaana's similar physical descriptions. Watery eyes etc..

 

Of the Brown Ajah. ALiviarin notices Mesaana wears brown bandeed skirt and is vaguely familiar.

 

Verin's suppositions, as mentioned. Danelle fits into that.

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Oh, and of course, the fact they find her braindead in her rooms in ToM. (I know you knew that, I m just playing round) :biggrin:

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Thanks guys so much! I suppose I shouldn't have said "everyone" knew, but I do recall quite a few people saying they thought it was her, so I'm glad it wasn't just me missing some huge details ^^;

 

And yes, I've only read the series once, but I plan on rereading it at least a few times to find details like this that I missed. It is, afterall, my favorite series ;) (Hence why I stalk these forums quite often :happy: )

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Yeah, if you read the series only once, then it seems unlikely you would have pieced it together. So much happens in TSR that one Aes Sedai that's acting a bit oddly doesn't really register. It certainly didn't to me.

 

After TPoD came out and I had to wait, I found an old version of the FAQ, and it mentioned a number of Mesaana candidates. I always suspected Danelle more than others after reading that (and re-reading TSR and TFoH), yet it wasn't really possible to be sure until much later. I think RJ answered a question related to being able to puzzle it out in the CoT tour, which is where the most recent clue is other than Verin's speculation in TGS.

 

Oh, and reading the FAQ for the first time was freakin' amazing. :laugh: I felt pretty silly for missing so much :jordan:

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Aside from the things mentioned, Danelle was a logical choice because she had no friends and generally kept to herself, so she would have been an easy identity for Mesaana to steal. She couldn't just Compel the whole Tower, so she had to choose someone who would be relatively easy to impersonate. I also get the feeling that Danelle was just strong enough to buck the influence of other sisters and get away with keeping mostly to herself.

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I doubt there was a way to figure it out a priori before ToM.

 

You needed the RJ hints that Mesaana's alter-ego existed, was Aes Sedai, was in the tower and had appeared on screen and probably a few other things. Without all of those, there's no way to discount a woodcutter in LoM or anyone anywhere that didn't have a PoV :) And even with those, there's a million page thread on the subject pre-CoT and probably later.

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It should be noted that Danelle's masons were cited to have begun the fighting--or at least that they were the first group that was cited to be fighting.

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I doubt there was a way to figure it out a priori before ToM.

 

You needed the RJ hints that Mesaana's alter-ego existed, was Aes Sedai, was in the tower and had appeared on screen and probably a few other things.

We knew all that from the books, via Graendal and others. All we got from RJ was a confirmation that there was enough info to figure it out, and also a confirmation (which we already more or less knew from the books, because of Else) that strength in the Power could be masked similar to how the ability itself is masked.

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ToM is probably too late. I think it was around CoT where Luckers made a list of everyone named around the tower with enough description to match certain elements of what Alviarian described. It was an awful slog :)

 

It's often hard to weight even what they say directly: take the mention of angreal in the LoC prologue. Do we assume Mes has alternate identities in each of the places named (Tear, Carhien, Rhuidean) to gather the same level of factual detail about those piles of *angreal as the store-rooms in the tower (not to mention how Egwene gets in there in tGS, that's pure lol)? And it isn't even that much info, she doesn't mention that there are known female Sa'angreal in the Tower either.

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I don't know about the rest of you, but I saw this coming back in Eye of the World...... ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note: That was after I was re-reading the series again.

Edited by Guru
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