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How was it that Rand had so much power in VoG?


alykyn
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IIRC Rand thought something to the effect of how he had enough power in VoG to destroy the world. My question is, how is this possible?

 

Rand is strong, as was LTT, but neither of them could draw enough of the OP to destroy the world. Case in point, Ishy/Moridin being his virtual equal can not do this; if he could then he'd have done it for the DO already.

 

I hate when writers keep making characters more and more and MORE powerful to the point where they break all their own rules far and away! LTT drew all the OP he could draw and more and what he did was create a small mountain, not annihilate the world.

 

With the access key I can believe this would be 'possible', but that made his strength in the OP probably thousands,maybe millions of times more than he could handle unaided; they said the beacon of his drawing Saidin could be seen by a channeler anywhere in the world.

 

So is this just some 'creative licensing' on the part of the author, or are we really supposed to throw out the wholechanneling system and believe that Rand was more powerful than when he cleansed Saidin, or even 1/1000th as close unaided?

 

Edit: Doh.

 

Did he have the access key in VoG? If he did then never mind, of course he could have destroyed the world with it.

 

I was remembering that he didn't have it, in which case it made no sense how he could be that powerful, but obviously with it he could do just about anything.

Edited by alykyn
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You stated the answer yourself: it was the access key.

 

My take on what happened is something like this:

-Rand went to Dragonmount and started to draw power through the access key as he pondered the darkness in the world (as a little aside, this whole chapter was just beautifully written in my opinion, and one of my favorites in the series)

-He experienced his revelation

-However, he had already drawn so much power that he had to do something with it or be destroyed (I think that's what happened, I'm not too sure)

-He sends it through the access key and destroys the Choedan Kal.

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Doh.

 

Did he have the access key in VoG? If he did then never mind, of course he could have destroyed the world with it.

 

I was remembering that he didn't have it, in which case it made no sense how he could be that powerful, but

obviously with it he could do just about anything.

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Doh.

 

Did he have the access key in VoG? If he did then never mind, of course he could have destroyed the world with it.

 

I was remembering that he didn't have it, in which case it made no sense how he could be that powerful, but

obviously with it he could do just about anything.

 

Yes he could, which is why he destroyed it.

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Yeah silly mistake we all make them. What I want to know is what is with him at Maradon? He didn't even have an angreal as far as I know and he wiped out the WHOLE army.

I thought he wasn't THAT powerful. Why did LTT even lead armies if he could destroy other ones without aid.

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Yeah silly mistake we all make them. What I want to know is what is with him at Maradon? He didn't even have an angreal as far as I know and he wiped out the WHOLE army.

I thought he wasn't THAT powerful. Why did LTT even lead armies if he could destroy other ones without aid.

 

 

Yeah, more creative licensing it looks like. If he was that powerful than Moridin should have been able to wipe out Rand wherever he was staying like one of the 'Gars tried to do.

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Yeah silly mistake we all make them. What I want to know is what is with him at Maradon? He didn't even have an angreal as far as I know and he wiped out the WHOLE army.

I thought he wasn't THAT powerful. Why did LTT even lead armies if he could destroy other ones without aid.

 

This scene is from Ithuralde point of view, so Rand could have been using an angreal.

Rand also said it exhausted him, and the army had no channelers opposing him.

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Callandor might explain the glow. However, it's possible that he 'stretched' his ability with the One Power on Dragonmount by holding so much saidin with the Choedan Kal. It might explain the oddity of his children.

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Callandor might explain the glow. However, it's possible that he 'stretched' his ability with the One Power on Dragonmount by holding so much saidin with the Choedan Kal. It might explain the oddity of his children.

 

Slightly confused. Are you saying he had Callandor at Dragonmoun in VoG or at Maradon?

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Rand is a walking oddity nowadays, I'd say...

 

We have the web of light in his brain that exactly covers the taint, his newly supercharged Ta'veren power, a shining aura that drives Darkfriends insane, he's stronger than ever and the dexterity and precision of his weaves are nothing short of stunning. Maybe he even can "see" who's a Darkfriend, I haven't made up my mind yet... It's like he suddenly has all the powers Lews Therin had - and more. And of course - as Terez pointed out above - his children seem to be an odd and peculiar group when it comes to The One Power, channeling all the time since birth - it's like breathing to them.

 

His enlightenment on Dragonmount in VoG is one reason behind all this, of course, and another could be his connection to The True Power and thus The Dark One, a godlike being. Yin and Yang, male and female, that's a big theme in the series. Opposites that work together are always stronger.

 

I hope we'll get a good explanation in aMoL, something that is rooted in what we already have been told. I hate the thought of a Deus ex machina type of thing appearing at this late stage in the game...

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Callandor might explain the glow. However, it's possible that he 'stretched' his ability with the One Power on Dragonmount by holding so much saidin with the Choedan Kal. It might explain the oddity of his children.

 

Slightly confused. Are you saying he had Callandor at Dragonmoun in VoG or at Maradon?

I'm saying he might have had Callandor at Maradon. But then I offered an alternate explanation that I think makes a little more sense.

 

And of course - as Terez pointed out above - his children seem to be an odd and peculiar group when it comes to The One Power, channeling all the time since birth - it's like breathing to them.

I get the impression that they are also more powerful than is normal.

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Rand is a walking oddity nowadays, I'd say...

 

We have the web of light in his brain that exactly covers the taint, his newly supercharged Ta'veren power, a shining aura that drives Darkfriends insane, he's stronger than ever and the dexterity and precision of his weaves are nothing short of stunning. Maybe he even can "see" who's a Darkfriend, I haven't made up my mind yet... It's like he suddenly has all the powers Lews Therin had - and more. And of course - as Terez pointed out above - his children seem to be an odd and peculiar group when it comes to The One Power, channeling all the time since birth - it's like breathing to them.

 

His enlightenment on Dragonmount in VoG is one reason behind all this, of course, and another could be his connection to The True Power and thus The Dark One, a godlike being. Yin and Yang, male and female, that's a big theme in the series. Opposites that work together are always stronger.

 

I hope we'll get a good explanation in aMoL, something that is rooted in what we already have been told. I hate the thought of a Deus ex machina type of thing appearing at this late stage in the game...

 

Ya, I really really REALLY hope that all of this is thoroughly explained. If it is not, then it will ruin the entire series IMO.

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choedan kal in the hands of a 400 year old super Aes Sedai meant extreeeeeme power. Ofcourse it had to be destroyed since the baddies would get wiped out in a second if it were used in tarmon gaiden.

 

 

you gotta have some action in AMOL otherwise what's the point.

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Callandor might explain the glow. However, it's possible that he 'stretched' his ability with the One Power on Dragonmount by holding so much saidin with the Choedan Kal. It might explain the oddity of his children.

 

Slightly confused. Are you saying he had Callandor at Dragonmoun in VoG or at Maradon?

I'm saying he might have had Callandor at Maradon. But then I offered an alternate explanation that I think makes a little more sense.

 

And of course - as Terez pointed out above - his children seem to be an odd and peculiar group when it comes to The One Power, channeling all the time since birth - it's like breathing to them.

I get the impression that they are also more powerful than is normal.

 

I agree. They seem to be oddly strong even considering the strength of their parents. Didn't Min have a viewing of Aviendhas four children and thought that there would be something strange about them? I don't think Min meant quadruplets with four different hair colours...

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What I'd like to know is why there was no mention from an Ashaman in ToM about the huge amount of Saidin they sensed. CoT was fraught with references to the cleansing from different viewpoints, yet VoG uses more power and nobody seems to notice.

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no it couldn't have been callandor.

 

even without the taint and with zen rand using it, the thing is still flawed. he would have burnt himself out.

 

i'm pretty sure he was unaided, he pretty much did the same thing when trying to fight couladin anyways.

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no it couldn't have been callandor.

 

even without the taint and with zen rand using it, the thing is still flawed. he would have burnt himself out.

You say that as if he hasn't used it at least three times before without burning out. He even managed to use it twice with no noticeable consequences at all.

 

i'm pretty sure he was unaided, he pretty much did the same thing when trying to fight couladin anyways.

Hardly.

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I'm quite sure Rand didn't have Callandor with him in Maradon. It's a pretty big sword and would have been difficult to conceal, yet nobody else mentions him carrying it around at the time. Also, I think Callandor needs to be touched to be used and Rand was not holding it in his hand. His hand is described as thrust forward at the upcoming trollocs during the fight. Thor also makes a good point about the absence of the buffer on Callandor. Rand did use it before but the last time did not turn out too good and in Maradon he had to channel a huge amount of power for a long time. Being burned out because of the missing buffer would have been a distinct possibility.

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"Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized."

 

Rand has achieved enlightenment. His little drop of water has merged with the great ocean. He has now developed some of the abilities of the Creator such as his ability to regenerate spoiled food. Nynaeve was able to observe some of this when she delved Rand. Also, Naeff observed that he had never seen so many weaves before when Rand was channeling. Therefore I think Rand's new power has nothing to do with Callandor or some other kind of angreal. This new power is just part of Rand's new infinite consciousness. He is able to reach into an 'infinite void' and draw that power into the world. Before, Rand was only able to draw power through the void of Rand al'Thor.

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It might have something to do with that moment in VoG, where he saw all of his lives before him, perhaps there, for a moment, he saw the key to everything, but all he managed to take hold of it was ability beyond anything.

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Hmm interesting stuff. Now that i think about it he is godlike. I don't think that light when Nyneave delved him was ta'veran either. Maybe he is 'infinitely' strong.

Is rand the first dragon to have aid from the previous one? Was LTT the first dragon? If so maybe he can kill the dark one.

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Was LTT the first dragon?

 

No. There are no "firsts" in the turning of the wheel of time ;)

 

Dragon is the name given to the champion of life. His soul gets woven in the pattern at least in the second and third ages, and this has happened for many turnings of the wheel.

 

Is rand the first dragon to have aid from the previous one?

 

No. He does not have aid. He does now accept that he is LTT and Rand al'Thor

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Well you've got to think about this: Each turning of the wheel represents a new (or old, or infinite) phase in the eternal war between the shadow and the light, with the light - and the shadow to some extent - using human surrogates. You could say that Rand Al'Thor, and Lews Therin Telemon, and all the dragons beforehand we vestiges of the Creator's power upon earth.

To put it simply, I believe Rand is (in a sense, a limited sense) the Creator on earth.

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Even without a buffer, Rand is very in tune with his ability and the strain that comes with channeling. He could probably tell when he is channeling too much with Callandor. I don't think he had Callandor with him however.

 

He could have had an angreal. He also may be far more efficient with his weaves than previously. He has fully accepted the knowledge he has as a reincarnation of LTT in addition to any knowledge he has as Rand in addition to any help he gets from being t'averen. Aes Sedai who are weak in the power still become more adept at it with practice. Adding 400 years of experience to a guy who has only channeled for 3 years would have some effect on his ability to handle multiple weaves and use less of the power when weaving powerful weaves.

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No. Like I said already, he has done the same thing at Cairhien. Stop trying to look for answers that are not there.

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