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Mat is Aemon

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I think there is a good case that he is a relative of Aemon. However I would prefer to think he is not Aemon reborn personally. There are a few too many synchronistic events or relationships throughout the series as it is in my opinion. Mat is just fine being Mat, adding a whole plotline of him being this reborn king is unneeded and would detract from the character and story.

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I don't think anyone wants him to be anything other than Mat. We just try to look for the most eloquent explanation for why he had Aemon memories before he ever went to the 'Finns. Some people get a little out on a limb with it.

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...and besides, IF Mat is Aemon, it means Aemon is also Mat just like Rand is LTT and LTT is also Rand.

The Dragon is still the Dragon and the Gambler/Trickster/Son of Battles is still the Gambler/Trickster/Son of Battles.

 

The only difference between the two is the Dragon only gets spun out once per age, while the Gambler/Trickster/Son of Battles is not as limited.

Edited by Finnssss

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...and besides, IF Mat is Aemon, it means Aemon is also Mat just like Rand is LTT and LTT is also Rand.

 

I get a sense that this only really applies to Rand. Or at most the Heroes of the Horn.

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...and besides, IF Mat is Aemon, it means Aemon is also Mat just like Rand is LTT and LTT is also Rand.

 

I get a sense that this only really applies to Rand. Or at most the Heroes of the Horn.

 

In what way? The same soul is still the same soul, only the name they live by changes.

I mean technically, saying Mat is Aemon reborn is wrong as well. It's the Gambler's/Trickster's/Son of Battles' soul. Mat and Aemon were only the names that that soul took.

It's just easier to know them by their most recent incarnation.

 

As far as Rand goes, he's unique in that he also has LTT's memories. It's not like LTT had Rand's memories and it's certainly not like Rand has the memories of the Dragon's in previous ages either.

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It's not just that Rand and Lews Therin share the same soul.. it that they are the same person. Mat and Aemon may share the same soul (I personally dislike such theories) but even if they do they are not the same people. For instance say we have a farmer in the Black Hills who was once a merchant from Tear. The soul is the same but the persons are different. Not just by circumstances but.. radically different people.

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If some returned Hero hails him as Aemon when Mat next toots his horn .. THEN I'm certain it'll be "I told ya' so" time.

 

Aemon isn't a Hero of the Horn though (unless I've missed something), so Hawkwing or another Hero not calling Mat "Aemon" doesn't mean anything.

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We know that Mat is either directly descended from Aemon or Aemon reborn.
Actually, those are not the only options.

And it might not necessarily be an "or". Nothing I read prevents reborns from also being descendants.

 

One thing seems certain:: Mat & Aemon sharing a common ancestor.

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They are the only feasible options. The 'sharing a common ancestor' thing is weak.

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On ta'veren-ness: AIUI, ta'verens are made (by the Wheel), not born. Or reborn. And they need not be ta'veren permanently. So IF Mat is Aemon reborn, Aemon doesn't have to be ta'veren.

 

I'm wondering if RJ's original intention (when he was only considering three books) was to have Mat be Aemon, but as the series developed he decided to leave that one on the back burner.

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They are the only feasible options. The 'sharing a common ancestor' thing is weak.

If you consider Mat's luck, it's not so hard a step to make to assume one being the descendant as well as the reborn soul to be the most unlikely thing to happen, and thus the most likely to happen to THAT character :p

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If I multiply the numeric of Mat's name by Avogadro’s number and then divide that by zero times the sum of the Reynolds number and the Catherin Zeta age… then I guess I can see the similarity of Mat=Aemon.

As theories go this one isn’t bad, just completely un-provable based on what we know.

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division by 0 can result in any number since 0 multiplied by any number is 0.

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I wasn't sure about this theory one way or the other, since of course there is no actual proof either way, but then I went back and read the bit in TDR where Mat has that flashback to Aemon's memories, and there was a line that went something like this, "He had always been known as a gambler. It was time to toss the dice." Not proof, I'll admit, but not far off in book terms. Also, there is the possibility that the taint from the Shadar Logoth dagger broke down the normal barriers separating memories from different lives, just as the taint from the Power did for Rand. It would make a...sort of sense.

 

Also, it would seem very strange if the pattern just picked some randommer to be one of its most important ta'veren in the LB. I have a hard time believing Mat wasn't someone important before.

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People tend to forget about Mins viewing of Mat from tEotW too and prolly the biggest reason why it "has to be one or the other" as Terez put it.

 

A red eagle, an eye on a balance scale, a dagger with a ruby, a horn, and a laughing face

 

There is absolutely no doubt at this point that there's a hard link of Mat to Manetheren and Aemon.

The only thing in question is the exact nature of that link.

Edited by Finnssss

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There actually is another possibility. Moiraine tells us that sometimes the Old Blood comes out. The explanation could be that simple.

 

That Mat bears the Old Blood of Manetheren is not in doubt. But it is not true that he must be either Aemon reborn or a direct descendent.

Edited by randsc

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There actually is another possibility. Moiraine tells us that sometimes the Old Blood comes out. The explanation could be that simple.

 

That Mat bears the Old Blood of Manetherene is not in doubt. But it is not true that he must be either Aemon reborn or a direct descendent.

 

 

Yes and Thom also said that he has never seen more than a word or two, not entire phrases like Mat was spouting. Later on he is dreaming of commanding the Heart Guard during the Battle of Mantherene sometime during the Trolloc Wars, and he speaks the old tongue well before he meets the Finn's in Rhuidean. Further the initial phrases that he speaks are the battle cry of Mantherene during Aemon's and Elderene's reign. There is definitely some sort of connection between Aemon and Mat. I personally believe he is Aemon Reborn, but short of Hero's pronouncing him as Aemon, there are only evidences, but not proofs.

 

Now onto the subject of the old blood. We have not seen a single reference to this happening to anyone else in the entire series, so I doubt that it is an entirely correct concept.

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AIUI, 'blood coming out' refers to an individual being a genetic 'throwback' to his ancestors. But AFAIK, language is not encoded in the genes. Be fascinating if it was, though!

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I think not in this case. I read 'old blood' as referring to the original bloodlines of Manetheren, particularly its own royal line, before it became diluted by marriages with outsiders.

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There actually is another possibility. Moiraine tells us that sometimes the Old Blood comes out. The explanation could be that simple.

 

That Mat bears the Old Blood of Manetherene is not in doubt. But it is not true that he must be either Aemon reborn or a direct descendent.

 

 

Yes and Thom also said that he has never seen more than a word or two, not entire phrases like Mat was spouting. Later on he is dreaming of commanding the Heart Guard during the Battle of Mantherene sometime during the Trolloc Wars, and he speaks the old tongue well before he meets the Finn's in Rhuidean. Further the initial phrases that he speaks are the battle cry of Mantherene during Aemon's and Elderene's reign. There is definitely some sort of connection between Aemon and Mat. I personally believe he is Aemon Reborn, but short of Hero's pronouncing him as Aemon, there are only evidences, but not proofs.

 

Now onto the subject of the old blood. We have not seen a single reference to this happening to anyone else in the entire series, so I doubt that it is an entirely correct concept.

 

 

Sure, but Thom's experience didn't include ghostly villages that disappear into the road, either. The pattern thins, and much that was past touches the present.

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AIUI, 'blood coming out' refers to an individual being a genetic 'throwback' to his ancestors. But AFAIK, language is not encoded in the genes. Be fascinating if it was, though!

 

No, it is clear in the text that one of the way the Old Blood manifests itself is through the involuntary use of the Old Tongue. So language apparently is encoded.

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That only works when trying to explain away a single point at a time.

 

Mat's memory of being Aemon + Min's viewing + the Old Tongue + the Finns naming him "The Gambler", "Son of Battles" and "The Trickster" is not so easily explained and simply saying he is "of the Old Blood" is certainly not even close to enough.

We are way past that imo.

Edited by Finnssss

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