Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Could Moridin be Taim's father?


Pandemonium
 Share

Recommended Posts

Here is a loony theory for you. What if Moridin is actually Taim's father? Surely Moridin must have thought of 'spreading his seed' and using the 'fruit of his loin' to create a veritable army of channeling children. Taim seems pretty skilled at what he does. Maybe that is because he received special training from his 'father.'

 

Here are a few of the clues:

 

1. Taim has many of the same mannerisms of Moridin and uses some of the same red and black coloring schemes (of course Be'lal also used this scheme)

 

2. Taim uses many phrases that would not be expected of him like 'so-called Aiel.'

 

3. Taim has an intense interest and knowledge of angreal which wouldn't be expected of the average male wilder. He set his Asha'man in search of Rand's angreal at the end of Dumai's Wells. He also brought the cuendillar seal to Rand.

 

4. Taim has obviously been taught a lot of weaves and probably had a teacher of the shadow to help him learn things that even Rand didn't know such as how to test a male channeler.

 

5. Taim knew a lot of the tricks that only the Forsaken knew such as how to not be affected by hot and cold temperatures.

 

In conclusion, at the very least, Taim received a lot of tutelage from Moridin or another male Forsaken. That said, it would have taken Moridin a lot of effort to track down a skilled male channeler (unless he just let the red ajah do it for him). Even if Moridin was able to find a male channeler, it would have take Moridin years to find a male channeler of sufficient strength to be useful to the Shadow's cause. During one of his many releases from Shayol Ghul, Ishamael may have tried to create a dreadlord 'breeding' program for the shadow. Ishamael, being nearly as strong in the power as Lews Therin, knew his extreme value as a stud. Over the years, Ishamael may have been able to breed an army of dreadlords. Taim may have been Ishamael's crowning achievement. I wouldn't be surprised if Ishamael has a bunch of his other 'sons' laying around someone where. Maybe in the blight? Maybe in the Land of Madmen?

 

This is all very loony, of course, but it does have a certain logic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

eww! Taim is Ishy's son?! That's a new one. It certainly would address a lot of issues that you site which are commonly used to advocate Taim=Moridin.

I have to give you that.

However, I consider this one highly unlikely. This would be really creepy IMO and give Moridin some characteristics that the Forsaken are not supposed to possess. They are supposed to be utterly selfish and likely incapable of such "positive" things as paternal love or trust which this theory would imply on Moridin's part. Asmodean stilled his own mother according to Lanfear.

 

Also, neither Moridin nor Ishy ever showed any interest in women as sexual objects. Luckers asked BS if Moridin is gay and he said that he wasn't sure. If he was Taim's father the answer would be an unequivocal "no".

 

 

Luckers on Twitter - 10 January 2011

By the way about my question re: Moridin's sexuality, my friend now thinks Moridin is in love with the Dark One... :S

Brandon

I didn't catch the Moridin question first time around. Would you ask again?

Terez

He asked if Moridin was gay since he's evil but doesn't appear to be interested in taking advantage of his pets.

Luckers

What she said. He seems very asexual in general. The thought came after reading the Moghedien/Shaidar Haran/Moridin scene.

Luckers

It's also not just that I think he should be raping them because he's evil, it's just there is a complete lack of interest.

Brandon

As for your Moridin question, it is a good one. I'll look into it as well. I haven't seen anything either way in the notes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This would be really creepy IMO and give Moridin some characteristics that the Forsaken are not supposed to possess. They are supposed to be utterly selfish and likely incapable of such "positive" things as paternal love or trust which this theory would imply on Moridin's part.

 

I don't think choosing to have a child in order to train him so he can help carry out your Evil Designs counts either as paternal love or unselfishness. Even if it somehow did, Lanfear is a good example that Forsaken are capable to "love" in their own dark, twisted way.

 

Also, neither Moridin nor Ishy ever showed any interest in women as sexual objects. Luckers asked BS if Moridin is gay and he said that he wasn't sure. If he was Taim's father the answer would be an unequivocal "no".

 

I don't think gay men having children is unheard of in our world :biggrin: Moridin could also be bisexual, or he could simply be full-on gay and still decide to have sex with a woman purely as part of his Evil Designs Masterplan.

 

Anyway. I do not believe Moridin is Taim's father as this does not seem to be in keeping with what usually happens in WoT or the way RJ does things. Nonetheless, it would've been interesting - different. Rand has had dad issues, it would have been interesting for one his nemesis to have some as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Also, neither Moridin nor Ishy ever showed any interest in women as sexual objects. Luckers asked BS if Moridin is gay and he said that he wasn't sure. If he was Taim's father the answer would be an unequivocal "no".

 

I don't think gay men having children is unheard of in our world :biggrin: Moridin could also be bisexual, or he could simply be full-on gay and still decide to have sex with a woman purely as part of his Evil Designs Masterplan.

 

without debating the likelihood of something like this happening in the world of WOT, BS quote above says that there is nothing in the notes indicating Moridin's sexual orientation. This absolutely disqualifies any scenario such as you mention.

Edited by herid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taim is about 10 years older than Rand. Rand is about 21.

Ishy was free around the time Rand was born and a little after at the least (he punished the BA). He's often been free for long periods of time. So it's possible that he was free 10 years earlier.

That makes it possible that ishy fathered Taim in theoretical terms.

But as Herid has pointed out, there's zero evidence for the theory and counter-evidence against it, in textual terms as well as BS' statement.

 

In terms of teaching Taim, it would have been necessary to wait till after Taim sparked.

That's around 10 years ago both by Taim's admission and also, by normal "sparking".

Was Ishy around then? No evidence..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

without debating the likelihood of something like this happening in the world of WOT, BS quote above says that there is nothing in the notes indicating Moridin's sexual orientation. This absolutely disqualifies any scenario such as you mention.

 

I don't see how no notes on Moridin's sexual orientation disqualifies any of this. Taim could be his son without any in-depth explanation of Moridin's sexuality and "how he did it!" :biggrin: It is not needed. It would be more than enough to know he somehow begot a son at some point and raised him to be his puppet/sidekick/tool/successor/whatever.

 

Then again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. As I mentioned before, I don't personally believe in this theory but I do not think it can be discarded so easily either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This would be really creepy IMO and give Moridin some characteristics that the Forsaken are not supposed to possess. They are supposed to be utterly selfish and likely incapable of such "positive" things as paternal love or trust which this theory would imply on Moridin's part.

 

Well, just because you train a son of yours doens't mean you love him. A son would be an excellent tool, because a son is more likely to be loyal than somebody you simply found. And if he turns out not to be so great of a tool, you kill him. I guess. Still doesn't seem a likely idea though. Kinda creepy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a loony theory for you. What if Moridin is actually Taim's father?

Hey Pandemonium, rejoice! I mentioned your theory to BS on twitter and he was interested enough to ask for a link.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a loony theory for you. What if Moridin is actually Taim's father?

Hey Pandemonium, rejoice! I mentioned your theory to BS on twitter and he was interested enough to ask for a link.

 

Heck yeah! I used to write questions and posts back on wotmania and RJ responded to at least 4 or 5 of them over the years. Now I caught the interest of BS as well!

 

Actually, my theory kind of reminds me a bit of Mistborn. Elend's father (can't remember his name) was dutifully working to raise Mystborn and other mistings. I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar in WoT. Why waste some good genes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesn't seem very likely to me. Moridin doesn't seem like he would have spent his time like that around the time when Taim would have needed training (Around 10 years ago).

 

Also, when I first saw the thread title, I missed the i in Taim, so I thought it was a REALLY crazy theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesn't seem very likely to me. Moridin doesn't seem like he would have spent his time like that around the time when Taim would have needed training (Around 10 years ago).

 

 

We don't have any evidence of what Moridin was doing ten years ago one way or the other. One could assume he wasn't just sitting around twiddling his thumbs and admiring his dreamspikes while his minions were searching for the Dragon Reborn, so that does leave plenty of time to nurture other projects to fruition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesn't seem very likely to me. Moridin doesn't seem like he would have spent his time like that around the time when Taim would have needed training (Around 10 years ago).

 

 

We don't have any evidence of what Moridin was doing ten years ago one way or the other. One could assume he wasn't just sitting around twiddling his thumbs and admiring his dreamspikes while his minions were searching for the Dragon Reborn, so that does leave plenty of time to nurture other projects to fruition.

Or he may have been forced out of the world on one of his periodic sabbaticals - he wasn't completely free of SG until fairly recently. His being forcibly recused is actually more likely, given that we don't have any evidence that he was doing anything at all. It's difficult to imagine that he wouldn't have kept the entire DF network at his command obsessively hunting for the DR if he had been free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elan is gay. He can't be Taim's father (and his being gay is nothing but my gut feeling).

 

Since we all know that gay men can't have children...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since we all know that gay men can't have children...

 

No, no. The stronger argument for Elan not having children is because it serves no purpose for him. Procreation is the antithesis of what he is about. I just hijacked this thread to throw out my Elan-is-gay thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Elan is gay. He can't be Taim's father (and his being gay is nothing but my gut feeling).

 

 

And that's why he treats Lanfear like a hoe? Well I got the impression that he was using her and then he was using her...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elan is gay. He can't be Taim's father (and his being gay is nothing but my gut feeling).

 

 

Because siring an heir to further his purpose and strengthen his influence in the world is completely beyond someone as calculating as Elan Tedronai? The English King with the most recorded children sired by a regent was also notoriously gay. He did it though to get sons to ride to war with.

 

I don't see it as too ludicrous to assume that he knocked up a strong female darkfriend channeler then proceeded to have the child raised by some darkfriends in his little citadel up north guarded by his fierce dark aiel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elan is gay. He can't be Taim's father (and his being gay is nothing but my gut feeling).

 

 

Because siring an heir to further his purpose and strengthen his influence in the world is completely beyond someone as calculating as Elan Tedronai? The English King with the most recorded children sired by a regent was also notoriously gay. He did it though to get sons to ride to war with.

 

I don't see it as too ludicrous to assume that he knocked up a strong female darkfriend channeler then proceeded to have the child raised by some darkfriends in his little citadel up north guarded by his fierce dark aiel.

 

 

You much too much daytime soap.I am your fader!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a loony theory for you. What if Moridin is actually Taim's father?

Hey Pandemonium, rejoice! I mentioned your theory to BS on twitter and he was interested enough to ask for a link.

 

Heck yeah! I used to write questions and posts back on wotmania and RJ responded to at least 4 or 5 of them over the years. Now I caught the interest of BS as well!

 

Actually, my theory kind of reminds me a bit of Mistborn. Elend's father (can't remember his name) was dutifully working to raise Mystborn and other mistings. I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar in WoT. Why waste some good genes?

Elend's father was Straff, just in case not remembering was driving anyone crazy. I too thought of Mistborn when I read this, and its a verry interesting possibility. Nice work :cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...