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Sammael and the Hunters


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I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but I'd like to do so again. Sammael lead Illian before he was killed. The Hunters for the Horn took their oaths in Illian. Is it completely inconcievable that Sammael initiated the Hunt in the first place? And if so, was the Hunt truly just a way to get Darkfriends in higher society places, to have more influence? We've seen several times that people generally give the Hunters at least some sort of respect, a good example being "Lord Luc". With more power over commoners, the Pseudo-Hunters could search out the Angreal and such Sammael was said to be looking for. Thoughts?

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Word of the Hunt first appears in Whitebridge during the Eye of the World, which is very early for Sammael to be out and about. Of course we don't know for sure, but given that there is evidence that Ishamael is still partially bound until the end of the Eye of the World, I'd say no...

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Well, IIRC, Ishmael was always "half bound", right? We know that Asmodean and Bathamel were free around that time. Is there any reference to how far "down" Sammael was sealed?

 

 

Ishy was only bound in so much that he could still touch the world from time to time, the Trolloc wars, during Hawkwing's rule and some what recently before the rest were released as evidenced by Jain Farstrider's manipulation.

Aginor and Bathamel were still bound fully like the other 10 but they were apparently near the "surface" as it were and could still sense and watch the world. RJ described it as being able to "zoom" in when they wanted, unlike the other 10 who were in a dreamless sleep.

Whether Ishy, during his downtime, was in a dreamless sleep like the rest or not is not something I think that has been answered (someone will correct me if it was, I'm sure).

 

Either way it seems that he was "free" to touch the world when the Hunt was called in Illian but whether he actually had something to do with it...

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Well, IIRC, Ishmael was always "half bound", right? We know that Asmodean and Bathamel were free around that time. Is there any reference to how far "down" Sammael was sealed?

 

He was only half bound, but that's irrelevant. The point is that if Sammael were released, than so too should Ishamael have been fully released as he stood far closer to the surface than Sammael. Yet at Shadar Logoth (which chronologically was probably after the Hunt was called) Ishamael was still partially bound.

 

As I said, this isn't set in stone, but I very much doubt that Sammael was involved in the Hunt for the Horn.

 

Ishy was only bound in so much that he could still touch the world from time to time, the Trolloc wars, during Hawkwing's rule and some what recently before the rest were released as evidenced by Jain Farstrider's manipulation.

Aginor and Bathamel were still bound fully like the other 10 but they were apparently near the "surface" as it were and could still sense and watch the world. RJ described it as being able to "zoom" in when they wanted, unlike the other 10 who were in a dreamless sleep.

Whether Ishy, during his downtime, was in a dreamless sleep like the rest or not is not something I think that has been answered (someone will correct me if it was, I'm sure).

 

Either way it seems that he was "free" to touch the world when the Hunt was called in Illian but whether he actually had something to do with it...

 

I disagree, if Ishy was still showing signs of being bound at Shadar Logoth--and he stood much closer to the surface than Sammael--then I consider it very unlikely that Sammael was free to touch the world when the Hunt was called.

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I disagree, if Ishy was still showing signs of being bound at Shadar Logoth--and he stood much closer to the surface than Sammael--then I consider it very unlikely that Sammael was free to touch the world when the Hunt was called.

 

Sorry, I switched gears there and moved on to whether Ishy had anything to do with calling it.

I never even considered Sammy as a possibility due to the timeline as you already answered.

Edited by Finnssss
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Ishamael was partially bound; not necessarily "half". The books do not tell the degree of his bondage.

Not sure if Ishamael was involved with the Hunt in any way.

 

Sammael, earliest for his release seems to be Dragon Reborn. Not sure if Illian was taking oaths while he was around.

 

Not sure whether or not any Forsaken was/is involved with the Hunt.

 

 

Edit:: Darkfriends could probably genuinely seek for the Horn. Since anyone could have called the Heroes before Mat blew it.

Edited by mb
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