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Question about Dark Friend Aiel


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There has been much speculation as to DFs among the Aiel in past threads. As of TOM, can anyone be ruled out? Since Rhurac looked at and spoke directly to Rand, I think we can rule him out but what about others? I guess there could still be some among the other clan chiefs but I'm trying to remember, which WOs where present when Rand cleansed the Stone of high ranking DFs? Sorilea? Am I safe to assume those who met Egwene at her TAR meeting can be ruled out? Can any among Perrin's party be ruled out? Bain and Chiad?

 

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There has been much speculation as to DFs among the Aiel in past threads. As of TOM, can anyone be ruled out? Since Rhurac looked at and spoke directly to Rand, I think we can rule him out but what about others? I guess there could still be some among the other clan chiefs but I'm trying to remember, which WOs where present when Rand cleansed the Stone of high ranking DFs? Sorilea? Am I safe to assume those who met Egwene at her TAR meeting can be ruled out? Can any among Perrin's party be ruled out? Bain and Chiad?

 

Thanks

Rhuarc is definitely out. I think that was pretty clear before anyway. I'm sure that neither Bain nor Chiad are DF. Sorilea is a very strange case. I've seen claims that somebody asked BS if Rand has seen Sorilea after his transformation and BS said that he had. That would rule her out too but I haven't seen this BS quote confirmed. I would never suspect Sorilea of being DF myself but there is a theory out there that she is:

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=133&theo=2714

 

I don't find most of the arguments in this theory particularly compelling except one. But that one is so compelling that it would seem to condemn Sorilea all by itself. it is this. She is the only one who could have known how to disarm the wards on Cadsuane's chest. Elza herself would not know. Shaidar Haran can't channel so he couldn't teach her anything and he wouldn't know those weaves anyway. Sorilea was the only one who saw the weaves. Cadsuane disarmed the box in her and Bair's presence. But Bair can't channel so she doesn't count. That would seem to leave Sorilea and nobody else. I really don't see any way around this. In order for it to be somebody else we'd have to assume that there is another DF channeler (Elza herself?) who saw Cadsuane disarm the chest at some point and all of this happened offscreen and was never mentioned in the book. I find this exceedingly unlikely.

 

I should add that there is one odd thing about it. If it was Sorilea and she even arranged for Cadsuane to be away from her rooms during the attack (It's mentioned that Cadsuane was visiting the Wise Ones at the time), why didn't she do anything about Aviendha? Avi was the one to raise the alarm when she felt something really bad through the bond. Sorilea knows about the bond so she should have anticipated this possibility and sent Avi off on some errand.

Edited by herid
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Brandon said Shaidar taught Elza how to bypass Cadsuane's wards so Sorilea's intervention is not required for that specific task.

However, the raid to free Semirhage took place at a time when Cadsuane had been called away to meet the WOs.

That could mean coordination.

And, there are puzzling little details through TSR onwards, which suggest many Aiel DFd and probably a WO DF.

Trollocs know exactly where to attack in the Waste and arrive there undetected.

Katerine is freed from the WO's camp outside Carhein.

A Fade in the Stone calls Mat "Hornsounder" at a time when only the Supergirls, Ta'veren, Lan, Moiraine and Rhuarc should know this.

Aiel Travel in to attack Mat in his camp in LoC.

There is only one small unrevealing PoV for Sorilea and none at all for Amys, Rhuarc, Melaine, Bair.

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BS never said that Shaidar Haran taught Elza how to bypass the wards. he was very cagey about it. But he DID say that Shaidar Haran did not do undo the wards himself. so that is certainly not an option. Here is what he said:

 

Q: You mention that Shaidar Haran has quite a few limitations on his power. Can you give us a few concrete examples of these limitations?

A: Shaidar Haran needs a minion to do most of his work for him. Elza was essential to Shaidar Haran in getting things done.

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Mysterious Galaxy, San Diego 15 November 2009 - Freelancer reporting

 

Q. How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?

 

A. Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Joseph-Beth Booksellers, Lexington, KY 10 November 2009 - Stormleader Team reporting

 

Brandon hinted at some severe limitations on Shaidar Haran to affect the physical world. He says that a lot of actions that people assume to be those of Shaidar Haran in the book in one particular scene were physically carried out by Elza. He further indicated that Shadar Haran would have been incapable of physically placing the collar himself.

 

note that he says that Elza had been given knowledge of the weaves. That's pretty oblique. Given by whom? Shaidar Haran can't channel himself. the weaves that Cadsuane used are her own invention. That's mentioned specifically. How would anybody but her or someone who saw her disarming the box know how to deal with them?

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BS never said that Shaidar Haran taught Elza how to bypass the wards. he was very cagey about it. But he DID say that Shaidar Haran did not do undo the wards himself. so that is certainly not an option. Here is what he said:

 

Q: You mention that Shaidar Haran has quite a few limitations on his power. Can you give us a few concrete examples of these limitations?

A: Shaidar Haran needs a minion to do most of his work for him. Elza was essential to Shaidar Haran in getting things done.

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Mysterious Galaxy, San Diego 15 November 2009 - Freelancer reporting

 

Q. How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?

 

A. Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Joseph-Beth Booksellers, Lexington, KY 10 November 2009 - Stormleader Team reporting

 

Brandon hinted at some severe limitations on Shaidar Haran to affect the physical world. He says that a lot of actions that people assume to be those of Shaidar Haran in the book in one particular scene were physically carried out by Elza. He further indicated that Shadar Haran would have been incapable of physically placing the collar himself.

 

note that he says that Elza had been given knowledge of the weaves. That's pretty oblique. Given by whom? Shaidar Haran can't channel himself. the weaves that Cadsuane used are her own invention. That's mentioned specifically. How would anybody but her or someone who saw her disarming the box know how to deal with them?

It's unpleasant for Elza because the knowledge is blasted straight into her mind by Shaidar using some version of the method Ishamel used to give orders in the TGH DF social. It wouldn't be unpleasant if she was just shown the weaves normally by Sorilea.

SH can't handle saidar weaves directly obviously and perhaps/ probably not saidin either.

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BS never said that Shaidar Haran taught Elza how to bypass the wards. he was very cagey about it. But he DID say that Shaidar Haran did not do undo the wards himself. so that is certainly not an option. Here is what he said:

 

Q: You mention that Shaidar Haran has quite a few limitations on his power. Can you give us a few concrete examples of these limitations?

A: Shaidar Haran needs a minion to do most of his work for him. Elza was essential to Shaidar Haran in getting things done.

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Mysterious Galaxy, San Diego 15 November 2009 - Freelancer reporting

 

Q. How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?

 

A. Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Joseph-Beth Booksellers, Lexington, KY 10 November 2009 - Stormleader Team reporting

 

Brandon hinted at some severe limitations on Shaidar Haran to affect the physical world. He says that a lot of actions that people assume to be those of Shaidar Haran in the book in one particular scene were physically carried out by Elza. He further indicated that Shadar Haran would have been incapable of physically placing the collar himself.

 

note that he says that Elza had been given knowledge of the weaves. That's pretty oblique. Given by whom? Shaidar Haran can't channel himself. the weaves that Cadsuane used are her own invention. That's mentioned specifically. How would anybody but her or someone who saw her disarming the box know how to deal with them?

It's unpleasant for Elza because the knowledge is blasted straight into her mind by Shaidar using some version of the method Ishamel used to give orders in the TGH DF social. It wouldn't be unpleasant if she was just shown the weaves normally by Sorilea.

SH can't handle saidar weaves directly obviously and perhaps/ probably not saidin either.

BS never said that the process of teaching Elza the weaves was unpleasant. SH could have just marked her the way he marked Alviarin when he made Alviarin his tool. That was certainly unpleasant for Alviarin. Blasting something into her mind is a possibility I guess. we haven't seen him do anything like this though. and it still leaves the question of how he would know how to disarm the box given that it was warded with weaves that Cadsuane invented personally.

 

Also, I'm not really sure what Ishy did at the DF social. it looks like compulsion to me. perhaps an early version of compulsion before the notion was fully developed.

Edited by herid
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