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Androl again...


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actually rand has ignored the BT. The last visit he had there was when he handed out the pins. And he ignored them foolishly i might add. So you can't blame those folks for wondering if rand has abandoned them

Didn't he go there one more time after the attack by rogue ashaman on the Cahirinien palace ? He told Taim about the "deserters" and Taim told him he would put their name on the "Traitor's tree" or some such. Some time later, an other ashaman commented on the fact that their name was still on the traitor's tree and that Narishma's was also on it.

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actually rand has ignored the BT. The last visit he had there was when he handed out the pins. And he ignored them foolishly i might add. So you can't blame those folks for wondering if rand has abandoned them

Didn't he go there one more time after the attack by rogue ashaman on the Cahirinien palace ? He told Taim about the "deserters" and Taim told him he would put their name on the "Traitor's tree" or some such. Some time later, an other ashaman commented on the fact that their name was still on the traitor's tree and that Narishma's was also on it.

Nope, Taim came to visit Rand in Cairhien just after the attack, ostensibly to report that they had deserted. Logain informed him in COT that everyone Rand kept with him had been added to the list.

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Nope, Taim came to visit Rand in Cairhien just after the attack, ostensibly to report that they had deserted. Logain informed him in COT that everyone Rand kept with him had been added to the list.

Ahh thanks for that :) It seems I need a reread !
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Amarin is the Tearen lord (Algarin?) whose manor Rand is staying at with Logain when it is attacked by thousands of trollocs. Amarin was his brother that could channel that Cadsuane helped out. We see him tell Rand that he wants to learn to channel and he leaves for the Black Tower. Apparently takes up his brother's name as a tribute to him.

 

 

Nice job man, you nailed it right on the head.

 

His brother's name was Emarin and after Cads took him to the WT and gentled, she helped him to live for 10 years after.

When Algarin offers Rand, Cads and company his manor house as a secluded retreat, he asks Rand to test him for channeling, he can and then Logain brings him to the BT.

 

I believe he has nailed it...

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JAYN repetatively talked about his cousin. Androl might be the cousin of jayne. A ride along who visited pretty much every place, but never did great things, so he took a second teir state. Remember Jayne (I forget his common name in the books) kept referencing himself as a cousin, Androl is the ACTUAL cousin who was able to be aware enough to write the books, that is why he is secretive.

 

 

Also, androls talent is in gates yet almost powerless? and the gates themselves can be manipulated to kill Shadowspawn, if Androl has enough of a circle to give him the circle, what can androl do that is a great deal better than even the dragon?

 

I think I forgot to mention when I first put this up. "Someone had to write the book about jayn farstrider."

 

[edit] I updated, probably should have deleted, all of the writing here is a mess and hard to decipher.

Edited by Mandro
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Also, Noal Charin was Jain Farstrider, unless I misread him telling Mat that Farstrider died honorably, or something to that effect.

"Jain Farstrider died clean."

 

Different. It's a common term, and far less expectant than honrable. "Clean." means that you served your purppose and nothing more, which is itself quite honorable. that line made me a bit misty, so I recall it quite well.

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Also, Noal Charin was Jain Farstrider, unless I misread him telling Mat that Farstrider died honorably, or something to that effect.

"Jain Farstrider died clean."

 

Different. It's a common term, and far less expectant than honrable. "Clean." means that you served your purppose and nothing more, which is itself quite honorable. that line made me a bit misty, so I recall it quite well.

"Clean" refers to his redemption as he was previously a pawn of Ishamael.
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After re-reading his PoV's I believe his secret is that he has actually been channeling a very long time and is much, much older than he appears.

That would explain how he seems to have many life times of travels and knowledge.

He's a wilder after all, only wilder's have blocks and his was that he could only channel while holding a strap of leather.

That block has allowed him to live such a long time and avoid going mad from the taint.

 

THAT is a good one. I really hope that BS and Harriet find a way to franchise the series, like the dragonlace's, so that a more thorough history can be built up. Unnecessary inclusions to the mythology, but a fun environment that allows talented writers to stretch their wings in a beloved environment. GRRM did it with the wildcards series, and the dragonlances that I already mentioned, and I hope that harriet and BS allow it to happen with TWoT, i also hope that Rowling allows the same thing in the shape of a "Hogwarts a History." allowing others to give a greater depth to the environment.

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actually rand has ignored the BT. The last visit he had there was when he handed out the pins. And he ignored them foolishly i might add. So you can't blame those folks for wondering if rand has abandoned them

 

I don't blame them, but I also know that they are ignorant of how much junk Rand has been saddled with being Dragon Reborn and all- uniting Randland, killing Forsaken, being kidnapped by Elaida's cronies, the list goes on. So I'm glad there's someone there, loyal to Rand, who can say, "Hey, he may have made a mistake by leaving the BT without proper guidance but he's a good guy and he had his reasons."

 

Don't get me wrong, I too think Rand should have dealt with the BT way before this, it's way too large a threat to leave at your back and a hugely beneficial ally to have at your side but you can't say he didn't have decent reasons for being busy.

 

They DEFINITELY know about Rand getting kidnapped by Elaida's cronies, that's why some of the ashaman are so worshipful of the dragon. Dumai's wells was the Bellieu Wood, the Iwo Jima, the Chosen, The Argonne, the Battle of the Bulge, of the Asha'man. The AM who were at DW are the "Old Corps, Hard Corps" of the AM.

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THAT is a good one. I really hope that BS and Harriet find a way to franchise the series, like the dragonlace's, so that a more thorough history can be built up. Unnecessary inclusions to the mythology, but a fun environment that allows talented writers to stretch their wings in a beloved environment. GRRM did it with the wildcards series, and the dragonlances that I already mentioned, and I hope that harriet and BS allow it to happen with TWoT, i also hope that Rowling allows the same thing in the shape of a "Hogwarts a History." allowing others to give a greater depth to the environment.

 

That decision has nothing to do with BS, its all Harriet's call. Even then all we would get are the prequels and outriggers already planned. I for one think even that would be a bad idea and in interviews BS has agreed. Any sort of franchise in relation to the WoT is just a terrible idea. Goes against RJ's philosophy and wishes entirely.

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THAT is a good one. I really hope that BS and Harriet find a way to franchise the series, like the dragonlace's, so that a more thorough history can be built up. Unnecessary inclusions to the mythology, but a fun environment that allows talented writers to stretch their wings in a beloved environment. GRRM did it with the wildcards series, and the dragonlances that I already mentioned, and I hope that harriet and BS allow it to happen with TWoT, i also hope that Rowling allows the same thing in the shape of a "Hogwarts a History." allowing others to give a greater depth to the environment.

 

That decision has nothing to do with BS, its all Harriet's call. Even then all we would get are the prequels and outriggers already planned. I for one think even that would be a bad idea and in interviews BS has agreed. Any sort of franchise in relation to the WoT is just a terrible idea. Goes against RJ's philosophy and wishes entirely.

 

I don't know, I think it could work, simply because the outline is clearly ridiculous. maybe the drawback would be that the editors would be overworked keeping track of what is true to the series, and what isn't.

 

I mean there is a lot of fodder, you have the AoL/TWotS, The war of a hundred years, the Trolloc wars, the aiel war has already been covered (at least it has been enough to sate the desire for more knowledge.) There are the tails of the great heroes. There is a lot of good food for feeding that we will all likely eat up, though to a lesser degree.

 

[edit: I have a bad habit of hitting enter randomly, effing command lines, so instead of making 3 posts, I just fixed this one]

Edited by Mandro
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THAT is a good one. I really hope that BS and Harriet find a way to franchise the series, like the dragonlace's, so that a more thorough history can be built up. Unnecessary inclusions to the mythology, but a fun environment that allows talented writers to stretch their wings in a beloved environment. GRRM did it with the wildcards series, and the dragonlances that I already mentioned, and I hope that harriet and BS allow it to happen with TWoT, i also hope that Rowling allows the same thing in the shape of a "Hogwarts a History." allowing others to give a greater depth to the environment.

 

That decision has nothing to do with BS, its all Harriet's call. Even then all we would get are the prequels and outriggers already planned. I for one think even that would be a bad idea and in interviews BS has agreed. Any sort of franchise in relation to the WoT is just a terrible idea. Goes against RJ's philosophy and wishes entirely.

 

I don't know, I think it could work, simply because the outline is clearly ridiculous. maybe the drawback would be that the editors would be overworked keeping track of what is true to the series, and what isn't.

 

I mean there is a lot of fodder, you have the AoL/TWotS, The war of a hundred years, the Trolloc wars, the aiel war has already been covered (at least it has been enough to sate the desire for more knowledge.) There are the tails of the great heroes. There is a lot of good food for feeding that we will all likely eat up, though to a lesser degree.

 

[edit: I have a bad habit of hitting enter randomly, effing command lines, so instead of making 3 posts, I just fixed this one]

 

There are certainly a lot of areas ripe for storytelling/expanding detail plucking. And the fans would certainly buy it and make a Harriet a bunch of money. But the bottom line is that RJ did not wish for others to play in his playground. He didn't agree until almost the very end to even let someone else finish the main sequence books. And I believe that Harriet respects RJ's wishes and legacy more than she wants the money. So unless she decides to have Brandon do the already planned and partially outlined outriggers and prequels, we will not see anymore books set in this universe.

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After re-reading his PoV's I believe his secret is that he has actually been channeling a very long time and is much, much older than he appears.

That would explain how he seems to have many life times of travels and knowledge.

He's a wilder after all, only wilder's have blocks and his was that he could only channel while holding a strap of leather.

That block has allowed him to live such a long time and avoid going mad from the taint.

I like this theory. Seems to sum it up pretty nicely. :mat:

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Alrighty so il go along and say Androl is Jayns cousin. this could be why he is so great with gateways, he had to use them so often to travel with Jayn. Didnt Jayn say that he was in the place East of the waste (blanking on name), Androl could be the reason they got in without getting killed. Androl seems like a jack of all trades, the leather, shotting from horseback, knowing the sword and having more than one instructor in it, knowing how to did a good canal ect. this is gained from much experience IE living longer and travelling with Farstrider. Also this could be why the others look at him like a leader and he seems so confused/discomforted. he is used to Jayn leading, not himself.

 

Gonna reread the first chapter with Androl real quick. Might get a little abstract and crazy, warning you lol.

 

EDIT: Okay. Androl talking about himself "He wasnt sure why they deferred to him. He was no great man, particularly not here, in the black tower."

Idk i just pulled up this quote and think it relates to this theory by saying he was not a great man (Like Jayn) and specially not in the black tower where his prior travells mattered for nothing.

 

also adding to background like jayn "but Androl had known seductive sensations somehwat like saidin before-the exhilaration of battle, the intoxication of rare drinks from the Isels of the Sea Folk, the heady feeling of victory"

 

Also the fact Androl has almost lost his Taraboner accent is rather weird cause it takes a long time to loose an accent as heavy as the Taraboner one, and Androl calls himself "into his middle years"

 

i really like this quote "he'd once worked with a master architect- one of a dozen different apprenticeships he'd held in a life that sometimes seemed to have lasted to long"

 

THis quote could help prove Androl is the cousin who wrote the travels of jain, " 'he still owes me a new pair of socks.' ' and you, my friend have the soul of a scribe!' Emarian laughed. 'You never forget a thing do you?' Androl Shrugged."

A good memory and hinting at a soul of a scribe are good traits of a writter.

 

Here is something crazy, Nalaam is Jain sons, Androl doesnt know of the son. explains Nalaam claim of travel (really Jains travel) plus how Androl seems a bit surprised at some of Nalaams story. also how both of them know a drink that very very few know of, from Retash. also how his father saved a man from drowing in Illian so knows how to shoot a two river bow. Androl seems to know how to shoot it not to bad either.

 

Androl calls Nalaam and everyone else Lads, even though Androl says he is entering middle years and Nalaam is around thirty. bit odd for men of almost equal age for one to be calling the other lad.

 

"It wasnt a language Androl knew- it wasnt the Old Tongue, that was for certain"

This quote hints that Androl knows the Old Tongue.

 

So to Sum it all up i think either Androl is a very old wilder who has used his gate ways to travel the land or he is Jains Cousin.

Edited by Ziggdiezan
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So to Sum it all up i think either Androl is a very old wilder who has used his gate ways to travel the land or he is Jains Cousin.

I like your thinking but we saw nothing in his admittedly short POVs, to indicate that he knew Traveling before the BT. I think that there would have been a hint.

 

But he did have a Block so that does point to being a Wilder.

 

 

 

But the Jain's cousin part seems a good possability. Maybe when Ishy took Jain is when they got separated.

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I just wanted to point out that though wilders usually have blocks, some non-wilders have had them as well. Fedwin Morr was not a sparker - we know that because he was one of the first to pass the test, and also, Narishma was the first sparker at the Black Tower - but he had a block:

 

When the gateway opened there in the middle of the room, a sweetish smell familiar to any farmer drifted through. Horse dung. Wrinkling her nose as she veiled, Sulin led half the Maidens through at a trot. After a glance to him, the Asha’man followed, drawing deeply on the True Source as they went, as much as they could hold. Because of that, he could feel their strength as they passed him. Without that, it took some effort to tell a man could channel, longer still unless he cooperated. None were near as strong as he. Not yet, anyway; there was no saying how strong a man would be until he stopped growing stronger. Fedwin stood highest of the three, but he had what Taim called a bar. Fedwin did not really believe he could affect anything at a distance with the Power. The result was that at fifty paces his ability began to fade, and at a hundred he could not weave even a thread of saidin. Men gained strength faster than women, it seemed, and a good thing. These three were all strong enough to make a gateway of useful size, if just barely in Jonan's case. Every Asha’man was that he had kept.

 

ETA: It may be that Morr was simply young enough when he came to the Black Tower (around 14 or so) that Taim couldn't tell he was a sparker - Narishma was at the age where it was about to come out (19 or so) - but in any case he hadn't already channeled.

Edited by Terez
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I just wanted to point out that though wilders usually have blocks, some non-wilders have had them as well. Fedwin Morr was not a sparker - we know that because he was one of the first to pass the test, and also, Narishma was the first sparker at the Black Tower - but he had a block:

 

When the gateway opened there in the middle of the room, a sweetish smell familiar to any farmer drifted through. Horse dung. Wrinkling her nose as she veiled, Sulin led half the Maidens through at a trot. After a glance to him, the Asha’man followed, drawing deeply on the True Source as they went, as much as they could hold. Because of that, he could feel their strength as they passed him. Without that, it took some effort to tell a man could channel, longer still unless he cooperated. None were near as strong as he. Not yet, anyway; there was no saying how strong a man would be until he stopped growing stronger. Fedwin stood highest of the three, but he had what Taim called a bar. Fedwin did not really believe he could affect anything at a distance with the Power. The result was that at fifty paces his ability began to fade, and at a hundred he could not weave even a thread of saidin. Men gained strength faster than women, it seemed, and a good thing. These three were all strong enough to make a gateway of useful size, if just barely in Jonan's case. Every Asha’man was that he had kept.

 

ETA: It may be that Morr was simply young enough when he came to the Black Tower (around 14 or so) that Taim couldn't tell he was a sparker - Narishma was at the age where it was about to come out (19 or so) - but in any case he hadn't already channeled.

 

I wouldn't call what Fedwin had as a block, just a limitation or as Taim put it, a bar. He had no issue sensing or grasping the source, which a block prevents.

An actual block after all is pretty much a defense mechanism that a sparker/wilder develops to survive touching the source without the training.

 

I know RJ called what Fedwin had as a block and technically maybe it is but it was developed after he started training and was already touching the source.

 

Either way, in this case we're not talking about an immature 14 year old boy, we're talking about a man that in appearance is at least 3-4 times older than that.

A man that seems many times over even older than that appearance and had an actual full block.

It just makes sense.

Edited by Finnssss
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I wouldn't call what Fedwin had as a block

No one cares.

 

 

...and a top o' the morning to you too :tongue:

Edited by Finnssss
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I wouldn't call what Fedwin had as a block

No one cares.

 

I do. The distinction is that one completely stops someone from touching the source and the other limits what you can do with the source when you have it. Assuming that the effect of the taint is proportional to the amount you channel, that could have a very significant effect on lifespan.

IIRC the text isn't conclusive either way, I think that for someone being taught from scratch, a bar on the person touching the source at all seems somewhat unlikely - especially considering everyone in the Black Tower are volunteers.

Edited by AvroChris
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I wouldn't call what Fedwin had as a block

No one cares.

 

I do.

No one cares.

 

The distinction is that one completely stops someone from touching the source and the other limits what you can do with the source when you have it.

'Bar' is just Taim's word for it; I doubt he made any distinction between a bar and a block in the way that you guys are suggesting, and there is certainly no evidence to suggest that he made a distinction. They are the same thing, though I'm sure there are many different types of blocks.

 

The point is that Androl's block is not evidence for him being a wilder.

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I wouldn't call what Fedwin had as a block

No one cares.

 

I do.

No one cares.

 

The distinction is that one completely stops someone from touching the source and the other limits what you can do with the source when you have it.

'Bar' is just Taim's word for it; I doubt he made any distinction between a bar and a block in the way that you guys are suggesting, and there is certainly no evidence to suggest that he made a distinction. They are the same thing, though I'm sure there are many different types of blocks.

 

The point is that Androl's block is not evidence for him being a wilder.

 

I know you and Finssss don't get along, but you should look past how you feel about the poster and notice that his distinction and rationale do make sense (even if you disagree).

 

None of it is conclusive evidence that Androl is a wilder, but it is evidence and a reasonable case can be made that Androl is a wilder. Theories have been founded on much flimsier evidence than this.

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The point is that Androl's block is not evidence for him being a wilder.

 

Actually, it is evidence that he is most likely a wilder, it's just not proof.

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