Mins Viewings

[CaveManNinja]

So Min has viewings which have been confirmed to have something to do with seeing the pattern in the future. Because balefire burns threads out of the pattern, do her viewings account for the possible removal of threads in the pattern?

[Naked~Frog]

That's a good question... but has anything not happened so far? Cause otherwise it must.

[bysomy]

if min looks in a mirror, can she have a viewing about herself?

[Erunion]

So Min has viewings which have been confirmed to have something to do with seeing the pattern in the future. Because balefire burns threads out of the pattern, do her viewings account for the possible removal of threads in the pattern?

 

This isn't a problem - Balefire doesn't burn the threads out of the pattern. It "snips" the thread of a life out, only instead of doing it at the point of death, it does it a few minutes (or hours, or days, dependent upon the Balefire strength) before.

 

It's hard to explain, so I'll use this analogy/metaphor/whatever:

 

Killing someone "snips" their thread out of the pattern at the point of their death, the thread is ended, but it is still in the overall tapestry - it's just not going to go any farther. Balefire is using a candle instead of scissors, yes it 'ends' the thread, separating it from existence. However, it also burns the thread back a little ways. A weak fire will burn the thread back into the tapestry a few millimeters, while a strong flame will cause the thread to burn back a couple of centimeters. The flame no longer exists in those millimeters or centimeters where it used to reside, it is gone with only the ashes (memories, in the case of balefire) of that thread left behind.

If too much flame is used, too often, the fire won't go out and the tapestry will be destroyed, hence the danger in using balefire. Use it too much, too often, and you will destabilize the pattern. Use, say, the Choedan Kal to balefire a bunch of cities? Say good-bye to the pattern - the whole world's going to blow in one big balescream.

 

To answer your question, yes, Min's viewings account for Balefire - the thread of the life isn't gone from the pattern, it's just been shortened. Unless enough balefire is used to destroy or completely destabilize the pattern (in which case the pattern would no longer exist for Min to read), Min's reading of the pattern will remain accurate (imho).

[Sid]

if min looks in a mirror, can she have a viewing about herself?

She has never seen a viewing of herself. She's seen viewing of others about herself though.

 

Of all the people that have been victims of balefire, I think Elza was the only one around which she saw a viewing.

 

I guess pertaining to removal of threads from the pattern, she's seen images around Mat back in TeoTW that don't occur until after TFoH, where he was killed and brought back to life from Rhavin's removal from the pattern using balefire.

[mb]

Some Viewings of Mat occurred before that event.

-Dagger with a ruby

-a horn

-a laughing face (Ishamael, maybe Rahvin)

-maybe a red eagle (Band of the Red Hand)

[Brammeri]

So Min has viewings which have been confirmed to have something to do with seeing the pattern in the future. Because balefire burns threads out of the pattern, do her viewings account for the possible removal of threads in the pattern?

 

 

I have major issue swith the whole Min's viewings can never be wrong scenario.

Why?

Because once you've stated a single fact that Min had a viewing, it takes away the whole possibility of a story-line moving in unexpected areas.

People on here take everything as gospel.

Min's viewing are infallible.

Really?

Then RJ ties himself into plot-lines that he couldn't change - and authors just don't do that.

 

Any author will tell you that once they have the characters and plot in their mind then often how a character reacts can change a part of the story.

We're not talking whole-sale changes, but what happens in terms of sub-plots etc, can certainly change.

 

And some authors have even gone so far as suggest that they needed to change certain points of a story once they understood a character fully after seeing them evolve.

[Ashandarei]

I have major issue swith the whole Min's viewings can never be wrong scenario.

Why?

Because once you've stated a single fact that Min had a viewing, it takes away the whole possibility of a story-line moving in unexpected areas.

People on here take everything as gospel.

Min's viewing are infallible.

Really?

Then RJ ties himself into plot-lines that he couldn't change - and authors just don't do that.

 

Any author will tell you that once they have the characters and plot in their mind then often how a character reacts can change a part of the story.

We're not talking whole-sale changes, but what happens in terms of sub-plots etc, can certainly change.

 

And some authors have even gone so far as suggest that they needed to change certain points of a story once they understood a character fully after seeing them evolve.

 

Personally I like the fact that we have this form of prophecy that has to come true. In a world of shifting realities and changing Ages, it's a nice bedrock to rely on. Of course if the DO wins her viewings don't apply since the Pattern will no longer exist but here RJ explicitly says her viewings are for sure true:

 

"Q: Are Min's visions absolute Foretellings or probabilities?

RJ: Her visions are absolute Foretellings. The problem is, she doesn't always know what it means. The only changes from that are two visions she's had which indicated the possibility of the future forking, an "either/or." And that's the only time she's ever had anything like that."

 

So as long as Min knows what it means(as in it's not unclear to her what it means), the viewing can be treated as a 100% true future as long as it's before Tarmon Gaidon and if it's after, then it's only true if the Light wins over the DO.

 

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[capuga]

So Min has viewings which have been confirmed to have something to do with seeing the pattern in the future. Because balefire burns threads out of the pattern, do her viewings account for the possible removal of threads in the pattern?

 

 

I have major issue swith the whole Min's viewings can never be wrong scenario.

Why?

Because once you've stated a single fact that Min had a viewing, it takes away the whole possibility of a story-line moving in unexpected areas.

People on here take everything as gospel.

Min's viewing are infallible.

Really?

Then RJ ties himself into plot-lines that he couldn't change - and authors just don't do that.

 

Any author will tell you that once they have the characters and plot in their mind then often how a character reacts can change a part of the story.

We're not talking whole-sale changes, but what happens in terms of sub-plots etc, can certainly change.

 

And some authors have even gone so far as suggest that they needed to change certain points of a story once they understood a character fully after seeing them evolve.

 

Well, Ashandarei already replied with the RJ quote so I will just add that Min's viewings being true do not paint the story into a corner. So we know that Logain will have glory. How? We know something well be strange about Avi's kids. How? We knew that Rand will be with 3 women. How is this going to work? Will they all live together and get along together? How will this affect their interpersonal relationships? What will their parents think of the arrangement? We knew there would be a battle in the White Tower. Did this make it any less gripping? Did we know that Suian would be desposed and stilled? Did we know that Min would rescue her from the dungeoun? Did we know that this would be the moment that Gawyn became a huge tool for many, many books?

 

Its the answers to these questions that still make the books interesting and unpredicatable even if we know bits and pieces from Min's viewings.

 

We also have the Dragon prophecies which seem to always be true. Doesn't make seeing how Rand will fulfill them any less entertaining.