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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Gaidel Cain


MatTuon
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Anyone else under the impression that Gaidel Cain is Olver, I know that he was missing for awhile when Birgitte was still herself before being forced out of Telaranrhiod and she thought that he had been reincarnated into his next life, and the fact that he was suppose to be not goodlooking and they are always making remarks about Olvers looks, makes me think that he was born as Olver? When I was reading the ending tonight with Olver going to get his knife and talking about being a warrior and getting revenge for his parents, it just struck me again that I really wonder if he is not Gaidel.

Edited by MatTuon
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Talk about star-crossed lovers, Birgitte and Olver! If indeed Olver is Gaidal. What a cruel predicament to be in. Although, I suppose Birgitte can wait 8 years or so, and wait for the ugly one to become a man.

 

Birgitte also found the Shienaran Uno attractive.

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Anyone else under the impression that Gaidel Cain is Olver, I know that he was missing for awhile when Birgitte was still herself before being forced out of Telaranrhiod and she thought that he had been reincarnated into his next life, and the fact that he was suppose to be not goodlooking and they are always making remarks about Olvers looks, makes me think that he was born as Olver? When I was reading the ending tonight with Olver going to get his knife and talking about being a warrior and getting revenge for his parents, it just struck me again that I really wonder if he is not Gaidel.

Olver is not Gaidal Cain. He is just Olver. For one thing he was born before Gaidal disappeared from TAR. For another, this has been explicitly confirmed by RJ.

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.2_rest-chars/2.2.5_gaidal.html

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What would happen if Rand found a way to shove Birgette back into the dreamworld? is she like no longer one of the heros of HOV? Would she go back to being a Hero of HOV if she dies this time? I suppose Gaidal would have his stuff done after TG this time cause he probably is too young now to do anything.

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What would happen if Rand found a way to shove Birgette back into the dreamworld? is she like no longer one of the heros of HOV? Would she go back to being a Hero of HOV if she dies this time? I suppose Gaidal would have his stuff done after TG this time cause he probably is too young now to do anything.

the problem i see with that is the bonding, she is "tied" to elayne and until that is broken i dont think she could be fixed that way, saying someone undo what moghedien did.

 

I have a theory that if elayne would not have bonded her that she just would have gone back to TAR that all Mog did is put her thread on the pattern and it was sliding off, thats why the girls felt her fading. I do not think mog is powerful enough to unbind a thread from the wheel that easily

Edited by jwillis7
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What would happen if Rand found a way to shove Birgette back into the dreamworld? is she like no longer one of the heros of HOV? Would she go back to being a Hero of HOV if she dies this time? I suppose Gaidal would have his stuff done after TG this time cause he probably is too young now to do anything.

the problem i see with that is the bonding, she is "tied" to elayne and until that is broken i dont think she could be fixed that way, saying someone undo what moghedien did.

 

I have a theory that if elayne would not have boned her that she just would have gone back to TAR that all Mog did is put her thread on the pattern and it was sliding off, thats why the girls felt her fading. I do not think mog is powerful enough to unbind a thread from the wheel that easily

Yah she is tied now to Elayne whether she likes it or not...

 

I like that theory, soo completely tinged with irony of the matter.

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I have a theory that if elayne would not have boned her

Do you know something about Elayne that we don't know?

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I have a theory that if elayne would not have boned her

Do you know something about Elayne that we don't know?

bonded i mean bonded but i bet those nights in the menagerie get lonely

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Brandon Sanderson posted on Twitter some minutes ago:

 

"Gaidal has been reborn, and I do know who he is, and he is younger than Olver. (Sorry.)"

 

So who'd that be? There's very few children or babies mentioned in the series. Grady's kid? He should be too old too (already 4 years old in LoC).

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Brandon Sanderson posted on Twitter some minutes ago:

 

"Gaidal has been reborn, and I do know who he is, and he is younger than Olver. (Sorry.)"

 

So who'd that be? There's very few children or babies mentioned in the series. Grady's kid? He should be too old too (already 4 years old in LoC).

Thanks for sharing! That's very interesting. I have no idea who is Gaidal. Yes, Grady's kid is too old. But how old exactly should Gaidal be now? about 2 years old?

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Well for BS to know who he is he has to have been mentioned at least in TOM, preferably before. So, who has had babies between he disappeared and ToM that we have seen?

 

The only one I can think of is Grady's son, but he has been ruled out as too old by previous mentions. Apart from Olver and him, what other babies, toddlers or very young children have we seen?

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Well for BS to know who he is he has to have been mentioned at least in TOM, preferably before.
No he doesn't; he has full access to Jordan's notes. It doesn't even need to be something that will ever be published in the series; Jordan might just have come up with an answer on a whim.

 

Gaidal left Tel'aran'rhiod between days 463 and 512, very likely quite close to the late end of that period, since Nynaeve and Elayne were seeing Birgitte regularly, and Gaidal was "usually" with her (I inferred that Nynaeve had seen him on day 508, but it's not explicitly said). So he's less than a year old now.

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When Rand uses the portal stone the first time in TGH the world he appears in is a future version. They follow the trail and when they take another portal stone back they are now ahead of Fain.

 

I know the portal stones are different from the Dream World but we already know that time functions oddly there. Do we know for sure that the Dream World can not function the same way? I know we have never seen it happen, and with as much as we have seen of it this would seem highly unlikely. Yet we know time functions oddly...would it be reasonable to assume that it is possible that Gaidal in the real world is older than the time line would suggest?

Edited by meeker
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It has been explicitly said many times over that both Grady's son and Olver are too old to be Gaidal. The fact is, he only entered the world about a year ago, and RJ once said that people enter the world at conception, not birth, so we're talking about a baby a couple months old.

 

No, I don't have the quote, but RJ also said that time doesn't go backward inTAR, so if Gaidal entered the world a year ago according to real world time, he is ~3 months old. Honestly, the only way we would be able to recugnize him at that age is if a small ugly baby starts jumping around dual wielding claymores during TG and cutting off heads.

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He could be one of Elayne's twins for all we know. Is there anybody else who has gone preggo? I find that I am starting to forget a lot of things about WoT since I've been reading other stuff lately.

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My Theory?

 

Gaidal is relatively newly born, (don't think he's one of rands kids) and I never read that the time in TAR is the same as life, I don't believe he has to be an infant, but it wouldn't matter. Infant or todler, don't care. I also think Gaidal is also older than Brigitte. Here is why.

 

Jayne farstrider aswered the call of the horn of valere (I'm mispelling a lot of stuff. I'm re-reading again after years) BUT Jayne was alive. What happened to Jayne, the live one at the time the horn called him? Jayne was born and lived, Briggitte was "torn" from the pattern, I think "torn" is wrong, "removed" sounds more correct to me. So, Next time matt sounds the horn? Briggitte, who is still the she that she was in the TAR depictions of the pattern will fade into the pattern again, fight in TG and then be born out in a few years to meet gaidal as she always has.

 

Also, it's impossible for owen to be gaidel, he's always depicted as wielding 2 swords, I think the only one ever described such was Uno, and that was incidental not practice.

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... Could be one of Melaines twins? they're an unmentioned option I supose.

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My Theory?

 

Gaidal is relatively newly born, (don't think he's one of rands kids) and I never read that the time in TAR is the same as life, I don't believe he has to be an infant, but it wouldn't matter. Infant or todler, don't care. I also think Gaidal is also older than Brigitte. Here is why.

 

Jayne farstrider aswered the call of the horn of valere (I'm mispelling a lot of stuff. I'm re-reading again after years) BUT Jayne was alive. What happened to Jayne, the live one at the time the horn called him? Jayne was born and lived, Briggitte was "torn" from the pattern, I think "torn" is wrong, "removed" sounds more correct to me. So, Next time matt sounds the horn? Briggitte, who is still the she that she was in the TAR depictions of the pattern will fade into the pattern again, fight in TG and then be born out in a few years to meet gaidal as she always has.

 

Also, it's impossible for owen to be gaidel, he's always depicted as wielding 2 swords, I think the only one ever described such was Uno, and that was incidental not practice.

Jain Farstrider was not called by the Horn and didn't answer it's call. We don't know if he's a hero of the Horn, but he was certainly not there to fight near Falme. The reason is evident: he was alive and kicking.

Brigitte wasn't torn from the Pattern, but torn into the Pattern (from TAR). From a viewing from Min we know that she's bound to an ugly man both much younger and older than she is. That's Gaidal. They probably hook up some time after TG. Or she's killed and spun again into the Pattern at the time she was supposed to be born.

 

But when the Horn sounds, Birgitte won't answer, because she's alive. She will answer if she's killed before Mat sounds it. I wouldn't be surprised if Jain answers it's call this time, so he might be revealed as a Hero.

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I think it's pretty unlikely that Gaidal is anyone we've met on screen so far, mostly because we havent met many people of his age. I think the more important question isn't who he was born as, but why was he curned out by the pattern now? It's my understanding that the pattern "spits out" (for lack of a better term) the heroes it knows it will need. It seems to me that Gaidal would be of much more use in TG than 20-something years after its conclusion; meaning he should have either been spit out several years earlier, or allowed to remain in TAR and await the horn's call so that he could take part in the battle. The pattern choosing now indicates that 1: as I mentioned earlier, the pattern has something for him to do in 20-something years thats pretty important or 2: he has a task to do at his young age. I think figuring out his task in this age is much more important than figuring out who he is.

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Well for BS to know who he is he has to have been mentioned at least in TOM, preferably before.
No he doesn't; he has full access to Jordan's notes. It doesn't even need to be something that will ever be published in the series; Jordan might just have come up with an answer on a whim.

 

Gaidal left Tel'aran'rhiod between days 463 and 512, very likely quite close to the late end of that period, since Nynaeve and Elayne were seeing Birgitte regularly, and Gaidal was "usually" with her (I inferred that Nynaeve had seen him on day 508, but it's not explicitly said). So he's less than a year old now.

Of course you are right. What I meant to say was;

"For BS to say it and have it make any sense to the rest of us..."

 

By that I mean, it makes no sense at all for him to say "I know something thats in the notes which has no bearing on what you have read" - we know he knows things, and could easily deduce that GC is mentioned in the notes, as RJ repeatedly repudiated theories (olver in particular), and the manner of his disappearence from TAR make it clear that it wasn't just throwaway.

 

That said, my thought still stands, what babies/toddlers have we seen that could possibly fit the timing criteria - Melaines babies? Elaynes son doesn't fit imo.

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Can't be Melaine's child.

“You will have two daughters,” Min murmured. “Twins like mirrors.”
It's very unlikely that it's one of Elayne's, simply based on timing.
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It has been explicitly said many times over that both Grady's son and Olver are too old to be Gaidal. The fact is, he only entered the world about a year ago, and RJ once said that people enter the world at conception, not birth, so we're talking about a baby a couple months old.

Close. RJ said the soul enters the fetus, and the fetal stage begins some time after conception.

 

Gaidal is relatively newly born, (don't think he's one of rands kids) and I never read that the time in TAR is the same as life

RJ said that the time equation varies, but it never goes backwards. Check the interview database linked in my sig.

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tying in with one of the above posts about what the pattern needs him for in 20-odd years, ive been thinking for a while about that. what do we know RJ planned to write about AFTER TG? the mat tuon series/trilogy/whatever seems a good candidate(its the only outrigger that im aware is set AFTER TG, or was planned to). seems to me that maybe Gaidal is currently in Seanchan somewhere waiting for some plot armour(or at least a book in which to have more than one line). Brandons mention of this could have a tiny relevence to the ongoing discussions of team Jordan about whether to have them written(from RJs notes) or not. i know Brandon was against the idea, so maybe hes throwing us a bone about what happens after, as we may not see this resolved in print.

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