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How To Fix Egwene


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There are already numerous threads about Eggy, so didn't know where to post really. Anyway I was just going through LoC again, and there it is mentioned that when Eggy faces her Toh for the concealment of her not being AS, the WO say that she could face her Toh towards Rhuarc later since he wasn't around at the moment. I didn't check yet, but I think Eggy hasn't Seen Rhuarc ever since. SO, Might this happen at the Fields of Merilor? If so, she would be humbled - something a lot of readers are waiting for - , possibly for a large crowd,... She would probably be able to take the pain like in TGS, but it will have impact on her king- and queen- supporters I suppose.

 

anyway, just a thought

 

This is mentioned I don't know the the exact place, but when he finds out he's a soon to be father he says that she has no toh towards him.

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There are already numerous threads about Eggy, so didn't know where to post really. Anyway I was just going through LoC again, and there it is mentioned that when Eggy faces her Toh for the concealment of her not being AS, the WO say that she could face her Toh towards Rhuarc later since he wasn't around at the moment. I didn't check yet, but I think Eggy hasn't Seen Rhuarc ever since. SO, Might this happen at the Fields of Merilor? If so, she would be humbled - something a lot of readers are waiting for - , possibly for a large crowd,... She would probably be able to take the pain like in TGS, but it will have impact on her king- and queen- supporters I suppose.

 

anyway, just a thought

 

This is mentioned I don't know the the exact place, but when he finds out he's a soon to be father he says that she has no toh towards him.

 

 

No, that was Melaine, right after Min sees her having twins. As far as we know, neither of Rhuarc's wives are pregnant.

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How to fix Egwene?

 

Turn her into the sneakiest, most competent, most formidable, nouveau-forsaken in the whole frikkin' series.

 

I would so love it if she was dark side. She'd go from one of my least favorites, to possibly my favorite.

 

*sigh* never gonna happen.

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1, Unite the female channellers of the world (excepting Seanchan) and eventually the male channellers

2. Reform the Aes Sedai

3. Get the Aes Sedai to the Last Battle as a unified force

4. Convince Rand that destroying the Seals is wrong. Recall her dream, if you'd be so kind, along with the fact that she knew Rand well enough to correctly guess he doesn't actually have a plan

 

Thanks Hladmir for writing these out, and since this thread is "How to fix Egwene" not, "Why I hate Egwene" (which I obviously do), I'll try to respond in a similar fashion. Also as a second disclaimer, I for one (personally) find Egwene redeemed 1,000,000xs in the Sanderson books. Whether this was the path RJ always intended for her to take - well we will never know, but given her character arc for the first 10 books I unfortunately believe that he had (for whatever reason) somewhat of a blind spot with this character and she kept turning into this insufferable Mary-Sue.

 

1. Unite the female chans. - Yes, but again I ask you TO WHAT END ? If she ever said, just once "You know, if we all got together we could free all of our leashed sisters" or "You know, the Aiels talents in dreaming can actually be used as a pretty nifty spy-and-surgical strike maneouvers in our upcoming war" or "You know, the Sea Folk clearly use their wind talents to help with trade and transport we could do the same" I would find her a lot more palatable. No. Her ONLY motivation has shown to be "We must bring all these women under the over-arching authority of the WT." Now a case can be made that the preservation and dissemination of knowledge is an admirable goal unto itself, and here she should be given some credit.

 

As for the men - honestly I would find it really odd if she suddenly accepted them as equals, 3000 years of prejudice does not vanish overnight (on either part). The only realistic scenario would be for all the (surviving) BT men to be bonded to the Red Ajah.

 

2. Reforming the White Tower - This is really where her character comes off as entirely inconsistent and slightly schizophrenic.

She yo-yos wildly between pushing for actual reform, and then turning around and being straight up regulation AS, sometimes within the same scene. She first says that the oaths are harmful, and AS must retire into the Kin and now she is forcing everyone to take the oaths. She prepares, and indeed leads the tower defence against a surprise Seanchan attack, and in the next book she pooh-poohs the very idea that her pet theory about Mesanna being responsible for everything could be wrong, EVEN WHEN GIVEN EVIDENCE OTHERWISE. She wants AS to be closer to people and hang onto their humanity - no wait, she leads an extra-tortuous test for Nynaeve to see if she is ready to leave her emotions and family behind. She lectures and preaches about how the Ajahs must cooperate for the greater good, and then she turns around and manipulates and plots.

Ugh.

 

3. AS -> last battle as unified force. There has been no indication that she is doing this. NONE. ZERO. We can only go based on what we have seen, and not some secret "behind the scenes" mega-training that may have been going on. As far as we know, the White Tower isn't even AWARE of what is going on in the borderlands, or Seanchan for that matter. WHY ? They are an organized force, with access to traveling and supposedly two brilliant military minds in Gareth Bryne and Gawyn. Not to mention her besty Elayne who is now (completely undeservingly) the most powerful monarch in Randland. Have either of them done something ? ANYTHING ? Beyond securing their own power base ? The only reason Saldea survives is because of Rands intervention - both personal, and in sending Itulrade and Bashere's forces. Lan's army at Tarwin's Gap is entirely of Nynaeve's doing. And he is trying to get Tenobia et al. to return to the borders. What exactly has Egwene done ?

 

4. Convince Rand that seals/wrong. Again I could go along with this IF SHE EVER OFFERED AN ALTERNATIVE. Even if you leave aside the prophetic savior part of it - that we as readers, and SHE both know that it his destiny and duty to do this - what does she want him to to instead ? Sure, she is not privy to Veins of Gold, but she is privy to plenty of other things. She KNOWS of everything he has accomplished - including CLEANSING THE SOURCE, something no one ever thought was possible - why can't we see her think "You know...these are crazy times, and given everything else that happened maybe he knows what he is about". The most whiny and useless character of the last 6 books Perrin - PERRIN - can see this - first he says "Well you know, the Ashamen might be crazy, but I feel they have earned the right to my trust" and then "Well I know breaking the seals sounds crazy, but I trust Rand and feel we should at least hear him out". If one country bumpkin can see this, why can't our all knowing Amrylin ?

A much better response than "No I must stop him at all costs, and not only that get every one else to gang up against him, and oh IF INDEPENDANT COUNTRIES WHERE I HAVE NO AUTHORITY REFUSE TO FOLLOW MY LEAD I MUST SOON REPLACE THEIR RULERS"

Seriously ?

Moirane and Cadsuane did exactly the same things but at least they came up with different ideas - for example, Mo didn't want Rand to go to the Aiel she wanted him to go to Illian instead. Other than "accept her guidance" what exactly has Egwene, ever, been shown she wants the Dragon to do ?

Even if for the sake of peace and unity and cultural tradition and what not, he kneels at her feet and kisses her ring WHAT DOES SHE WANT HIM TO DO NEXT ?

 

 

To the first point, uniting the major organizations of female channelers can only bring about good things, and in her view, maintain the White Tower's relevance in the coming age. Egwene has had alot of time to think about what will happen if the Kin, the White Tower, the Wise Ones, and the Seafolk continue to act alone. It is not wrong to seek to unify disparate elements. It allows for better coordination and application of force to problems. Due not look down on it, merely because it seems self serving, but if it ends up serving the common good as well, why begrudge the Amryllian ensuring that the White Tower continues to be a powerful guiding force in the world?

 

As for taking oaths of fealty, aside from those few during the rebellion, there has been no further POV descriptions of her taking oaths from other AS. Additionally, breaking the oaths and reswearing them on the Oath Rod, broke those previous oaths of fealty, I believe. If the experimentation by Pevara and the brown sister with the oath rod, are any indication.

 

As for her pet theory being wrong with regards to Messsana, that is a blindness of information. The White Tower is filled with guards and fellow Aes Sedai, what force could kill a sister in such a place? Sure the door was broken into, but this can go along with the theory that the Black Ajah would not want to alert other sisters to their presence. We see the evidence from Trakand's perspective, but aside from an assasin that could've been a Gray Man with a deadly dagger, there is still no hard evidence at the time that it was anything else but darkfiends and Black Ajah supporters.

 

 

As for leading the testing during chapter 20 of ToM, it would behoove you to remember that Romanda and many of the other sisters present have a bone to pick with the upstart Nynaeve. Also, ultimately Egwene is constrained by her position, she cannot be seen as being too easy on Nynaeve, otherwise the others would not prove her elevation to full Aes Sedai to the remaining sisters. Also, Egwene is not leading the circle, so much as being a part of the circle, as Nynaeve is her candidate, and her friend. pg312 from the American first print discusses this in more detail.

Additionally, it is Nynaeve who wonders if the Aes Sedai should be closer to the people, Egwene in that scene is, at best, non-committal to the idea.

 

Manipulating and focusing the attentions of the Aes Sedai only goes part-in-parcel with keeping them focused on her main goal, preparing her forces for the Last Battle.

 

 

To the point of her doing nothing, after a division such as the tower has faced, it is no easy task to rebuild and reforge a cohesive group able to cooperate and trust one another. At the beginning of ToM, it's only been weeks since the attack on the tower, try getting things done when half the people you're working with aren't quite willing to bend to your every desire. She has a city and order to run, even with Silvana taking care of the Lion's share, there's still quite alot to be managed. She's had other sisters leaving the tower to gather up some of those who sat out the strife, but she percieves that having the tower whole is essential to being the most effective at the last battle. I also wonder why the Ajah's eyes and ears haven't reported the strife, but that may simply be a matter of having the time to send off a message and have it arrive. It may be that the eyes and ears are dead, in the north. Or from out of the Blight are recent, with Kandor falling within hours of the fateful on the fields north of Tar Valon.

 

As for having a plan, she has brown sisters searching every scroll and book in the depository searching for clues and answers. Perrin is hardly a country bumpkin at this point, being a commander of over fifty thousand men and women. He also has a different perspective than Egwene, being strongly bound to the whirlwind storm that is Rand's thread in the pattern. Egwene seems fairly immune to Rand's pull, and while initially discounting Rand's plan as unwise, she is at least trying to find information to refute or support his idea of breaking the seals.

Edited by Trolloc
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As for having a plan, she has brown sisters searching every scroll and book in the depository searching for clues and answers. Perrin is hardly a country bumpkin at this point, being a commander of over fifty thousand men and women. He also has a different perspective than Egwene, being strongly bound to the whirlwind storm that is Rand's thread in the pattern. Egwene seems fairly immune to Rand's pull, and while initially discounting Rand's plan as unwise, she is at least trying to find information to refute or support his idea of breaking the seals.

I definitely must have missed this. Where does she say she is having brown sisters search for clues and answers about the last battle/sealing the bore. She talks about them scouring for any info they can find on Mesaana, but that is the only thing I remember her researching. If she *was* trying to put together an alternate plan and was actively researching it, I think most people would have cut her a LOT more slack.

 

But, from what I remember, she basically assumed Rand had to be wrong, despite the fact that she had no alternative, did not try to find an alternative or additional information, and spent all her time trying to gather armies to meet Rand and.... (never quite can get through the logic of what she thinks the armies are supposed to do).

 

If you can point to the books where she tasked out the research for the seals/the bore, i'd appreciate it.

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As for having a plan, she has brown sisters searching every scroll and book in the depository searching for clues and answers. Perrin is hardly a country bumpkin at this point, being a commander of over fifty thousand men and women. He also has a different perspective than Egwene, being strongly bound to the whirlwind storm that is Rand's thread in the pattern. Egwene seems fairly immune to Rand's pull, and while initially discounting Rand's plan as unwise, she is at least trying to find information to refute or support his idea of breaking the seals.

I definitely must have missed this. Where does she say she is having brown sisters search for clues and answers about the last battle/sealing the bore. She talks about them scouring for any info they can find on Mesaana, but that is the only thing I remember her researching. If she *was* trying to put together an alternate plan and was actively researching it, I think most people would have cut her a LOT more slack.

 

But, from what I remember, she basically assumed Rand had to be wrong, despite the fact that she had no alternative, did not try to find an alternative or additional information, and spent all her time trying to gather armies to meet Rand and.... (never quite can get through the logic of what she thinks the armies are supposed to do).

 

If you can point to the books where she tasked out the research for the seals/the bore, i'd appreciate it.

 

 

basically Fel, that post (not yours, the other) was a load of nonsense.

 

1. From the text, she shows no indication of having sent anyone to research. Which should have come up in her PoV's when talking to others about Rand's plan. Surely at least once she would have said or thought. "I oppose Rand's plan, and have some sisters looking into alternatives".

 

But there is nothing when she sends the letters to the monarchs of the world, nor when she is talking to the Wise Ones or other factions.

 

 

2. Egwene is not immune to Rand's taveren. She is doing exactly what Rand wants her too. Its just she cant see it. Rand purposely didnt explain himself so she would gather the armies so he could issue the Dragon's Peace. She played into his hand perfectly. She is doing what he and the pattern wants.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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she is a doomed character, she started off likeable (ish) then devolved into something worse...something terrible.

 

no few lines will fix it. I think that rand will humble/embarrass her sufficiently that the AS will no longer be completely cowed and will resist her somewhat which is what will make her into a great leader.

 

Good fortune hides genious. Ill fortune shows genius

 

 

Agree almost completely, Rand alone can destroy the world, yet she incites him only because she was given a title. I think how she has accepted the title is very well done, but it doesn't change the fact, egwene, other than combating a petty dictator makes her the equal of a man who is hunted day and night, and has stood alone for 2 years (He really should have stretched the time line a little bit.) against the shadows direct attention. Title > prophecy? especially when the person she thinks she is greater than actually knows what it is to be Amyrlin? I would have preferred if Rand told Egwene that she could call him Father, just as he pulled the "Rand Sedai" thing with Cadsuane. That would have been great.

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she is a doomed character, she started off likeable (ish) then devolved into something worse...something terrible.

 

no few lines will fix it. I think that rand will humble/embarrass her sufficiently that the AS will no longer be completely cowed and will resist her somewhat which is what will make her into a great leader.

 

Good fortune hides genious. Ill fortune shows genius

 

 

Agree almost completely, Rand alone can destroy the world, yet she incites him only because she was given a title. I think how she has accepted the title is very well done, but it doesn't change the fact, egwene, other than combating a petty dictator makes her the equal of a man who is hunted day and night, and has stood alone for 2 years (He really should have stretched the time line a little bit.) against the shadows direct attention. Title > prophecy? especially when the person she thinks she is greater than actually knows what it is to be Amyrlin? I would have preferred if Rand told Egwene that she could call him Father, just as he pulled the "Rand Sedai" thing with Cadsuane. That would have been great.

I totally dislike Egwene, but I don't agree with this. Her title IS a big deal and she HAS to represent that office. And, her office is important enough that she should be involved in discussions with Rand as an equal or near-equal.

 

It's her internal thoughts, repetitive focus on power politics to the exclusion of helping the world, and lack of planning that make her hard to stomach for me.

 

To fix that? I need to see a lot that was happening "off screen" for the past book or 2 along with something to make her come down a peg or 6 and listen to the advice of others around her. She is not that different than crazy Rand was a few books ago in her complete inability to take reasonable suggestions from people.

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As for having a plan, she has brown sisters searching every scroll and book in the depository searching for clues and answers. Perrin is hardly a country bumpkin at this point, being a commander of over fifty thousand men and women. He also has a different perspective than Egwene, being strongly bound to the whirlwind storm that is Rand's thread in the pattern. Egwene seems fairly immune to Rand's pull, and while initially discounting Rand's plan as unwise, she is at least trying to find information to refute or support his idea of breaking the seals.

I definitely must have missed this. Where does she say she is having brown sisters search for clues and answers about the last battle/sealing the bore. She talks about them scouring for any info they can find on Mesaana, but that is the only thing I remember her researching. If she *was* trying to put together an alternate plan and was actively researching it, I think most people would have cut her a LOT more slack.

 

But, from what I remember, she basically assumed Rand had to be wrong, despite the fact that she had no alternative, did not try to find an alternative or additional information, and spent all her time trying to gather armies to meet Rand and.... (never quite can get through the logic of what she thinks the armies are supposed to do).

 

If you can point to the books where she tasked out the research for the seals/the bore, i'd appreciate it.

 

 

Just throwing this out there, but is the idea that Rand will "figure out when he gets there" what hes going to do when he breaks the seals realy an irrational one? He didn't know what he was going to do ahead of time when he:

 

1.Went to the EOTW

2.Fought any of the forsaken (with the possible exception of Rhavin

3. Took the Stone of Tear

and several other examples

 

The point is Rand is Ta'veren as hell and the pattern has given him several answers before, is it realy irrational for him to belive the same will happen this time?

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Just throwing this out there, but is the idea that Rand will "figure out when he gets there" what hes going to do when he breaks the seals realy an irrational one? He didn't know what he was going to do ahead of time when he:

 

1.Went to the EOTW

2.Fought any of the forsaken (with the possible exception of Rhavin

3. Took the Stone of Tear

and several other examples

 

The point is Rand is Ta'veren as hell and the pattern has given him several answers before, is it realy irrational for him to belive the same will happen this time?

Refresh my memory, were any of those on the scale of releasing the evil god who can destroy reality (and is already severely affecting it currently)? According to your theory, Rand shouldn't even be facing this problem. The Pattern should've just bailed out Lews Therin Telamon ages ago. Edited by Muad Cheade
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Just throwing this out there, but is the idea that Rand will "figure out when he gets there" what hes going to do when he breaks the seals realy an irrational one? He didn't know what he was going to do ahead of time when he:

 

1.Went to the EOTW

2.Fought any of the forsaken (with the possible exception of Rhavin

3. Took the Stone of Tear

and several other examples

 

The point is Rand is Ta'veren as hell and the pattern has given him several answers before, is it realy irrational for him to belive the same will happen this time?

Refresh my memory, were any of those on the scale of releasing the evil god who can destroy reality (and is already severely affecting it currently)? According to your theory, Rand shouldn't even be facing this problem. The Pattern should've just bailed out Lews Therin Telamon ages ago.

 

 

in a way he's right. everything seems to fall from the sky into rand's hands whenever he needs it. Kinda like deux ex machina BS.

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Just throwing this out there, but is the idea that Rand will "figure out when he gets there" what hes going to do when he breaks the seals realy an irrational one? He didn't know what he was going to do ahead of time when he:

 

1.Went to the EOTW

2.Fought any of the forsaken (with the possible exception of Rhavin

3. Took the Stone of Tear

and several other examples

 

The point is Rand is Ta'veren as hell and the pattern has given him several answers before, is it realy irrational for him to belive the same will happen this time?

Refresh my memory, were any of those on the scale of releasing the evil god who can destroy reality (and is already severely affecting it currently)? According to your theory, Rand shouldn't even be facing this problem. The Pattern should've just bailed out Lews Therin Telamon ages ago.

 

I realize this is bigger, but this is also the reason he was spit out in the first place. Why wouldnt't the pattern help him figure it out when he needs it?

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Refresh my memory, were any of those on the scale of releasing the evil god who can destroy reality (and is already severely affecting it currently)? According to your theory, Rand shouldn't even be facing this problem. The Pattern should've just bailed out Lews Therin Telamon ages ago.

 

How can you equal "destroying the seals" with "releasing an evil god". Destroying the seals will release nothing that has not been released before. The seals closed the Bore, they are not the DO's prison. With the Bore completely open (no seals yet) it took almost 100 years for the DO to have enough strength to cause open war, then the War lasted over 10 years before the seals were created. Removing the seals will not "release the evil god", it will simply give him the same power he had for over 100 years before the Seals were created. Much less power actually since the tools (people) that the DO has to work with are weaker than the minions he had for that 100 years.

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I see only three ways to fix Egwene. Kill her, get her laid, or have her humbled greatly and she then takes steps to better herself. Kinda like Everyone Else in WoT has done in the past few books.

Or maybe she just needs to ride bela again.

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Just throwing this out there, but is the idea that Rand will "figure out when he gets there" what hes going to do when he breaks the seals realy an irrational one? He didn't know what he was going to do ahead of time when he:

 

1.Went to the EOTW

2.Fought any of the forsaken (with the possible exception of Rhavin

3. Took the Stone of Tear

and several other examples

 

The point is Rand is Ta'veren as hell and the pattern has given him several answers before, is it realy irrational for him to belive the same will happen this time?

Refresh my memory, were any of those on the scale of releasing the evil god who can destroy reality (and is already severely affecting it currently)? According to your theory, Rand shouldn't even be facing this problem. The Pattern should've just bailed out Lews Therin Telamon ages ago.

 

I realize this is bigger, but this is also the reason he was spit out in the first place. Why wouldnt't the pattern help him figure it out when he needs it?

 

So basically, the series should have ended once Rand figured out how to Travel? If all he has to do is to show up at SG, sit down on his arse, and wait for the Pattern to fix everything for him, why the wait?

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Just throwing this out there, but is the idea that Rand will "figure out when he gets there" what hes going to do when he breaks the seals realy an irrational one? He didn't know what he was going to do ahead of time when he:

 

1.Went to the EOTW

2.Fought any of the forsaken (with the possible exception of Rhavin

3. Took the Stone of Tear

and several other examples

 

The point is Rand is Ta'veren as hell and the pattern has given him several answers before, is it realy irrational for him to belive the same will happen this time?

Refresh my memory, were any of those on the scale of releasing the evil god who can destroy reality (and is already severely affecting it currently)? According to your theory, Rand shouldn't even be facing this problem. The Pattern should've just bailed out Lews Therin Telamon ages ago.

 

I realize this is bigger, but this is also the reason he was spit out in the first place. Why wouldnt't the pattern help him figure it out when he needs it?

 

So basically, the series should have ended once Rand figured out how to Travel? If all he has to do is to show up at SG, sit down on his arse, and wait for the Pattern to fix everything for him, why the wait?

 

Needed to become Randhi? Understanding what "belief and order give strength" means? I dunno.

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Yes, Egwene is a hypocrite who does the same things that she condemns other for doing. Many other characters have had to face their own hipocrisy already (e.g., recently Nynaeve in ToM, pointedly with Egwene). So, Egwene will have her turn. Meanwhile, Rand is using her to bring the armies of the nations together (one short Travel to TG).

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She seems to act how an Aes Sedai should, IMO. Not sure why she needs fixing. Notice how the general opinion on Aes Sedai is unfavorable? They're supposed to be annoying.

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She seems to act how an Aes Sedai should, IMO. Not sure why she needs fixing. Notice how the general opinion on Aes Sedai is unfavorable? They're supposed to be annoying.

Exactly, she IS a "perfect" third age AS. I think that's one of the the problems some/many readers have with her.

Edited by White_star
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At the very least, can you admit that her definition of the word, "partner" is, umm, non-standard?

Sounds pretty standard compared to how Warders have generally been expected to act by their Aes Sedai.

 

If anything it seems fairly generous, given his extremely questionable history.

 

 

You really are incapable of recognising that people are capable of disliking Egwene independent of her actions towards Rand. Also' date=' plenty of Egwene detractors thought Rand needed fixing, and, lo and behold, it happened! The fact that your main defense of Egwene is to point out Dark Rand's actions is quite telling.[/quote']

The problem is that the fanatical anti-Egwene posters keep pulling up the same slobbering rage at her having the audacity to resist THE DRAGON REBORN when he's doing something that, as far as anyone except Rand or Min know, appears to be likely to destroy the world. It's come up more than once in this thread already.

 

Aside from that, so many of the other criticisms people are leveling against her either make no sense (she should treat her Warder as an equal! she should permit Nynaeve to call her by her name in front of other sisters!) or directly at odds with what the books have said (she's trying to force the Wise Ones and Windfinders to bow down to the White Tower!), why should anyone pretend that this palpable rage people show towards Egwene is rational? If it were, it wouldn't require misreading the text or expecting a character in a book to have the same perspective as the reader to justify it.

 

 

Except that she has no plan either.

No matter how many times people repeat this in thread after thread' date=' it doesn't stop being stupid.

 

Here's an analogy to illustrate the ridiculousness of that argument: Mentally unbalanced CEO of a corporation suspects corporate espionage. Decides the solution is to plant pipe bombs throughout the organization's campus and blow them up, since that will certainly "deal with" the disloyal employee in question.

 

Except that in this case, Rand's chosen course of action -- and he's a guy who's shown himself repeatedly to be pretty well on the way to insanity in the past -- is, as far as Egwene or just about anyone else in the series knows, likely to [i']destroy the world[/i]. Something that, incidentally, he was in fact considering doing a couple hours earlier.

 

Demanding an alternate plan from Egwene is like yelling at the vice president who tries to stop the CEO, "YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN TO DEAL WITH CORPORATE ESPIONAGE YOURSELF." Maybe not, but that doesn't mean stopping the CEO from blowing up corporate headquarters isn't a good first step.

 

 

Agree almost completely' date=' Rand alone can destroy the world, yet she incites him only because she was given a title. I think how she has accepted the title is very well done, but it doesn't change the fact, egwene, other than combating a petty dictator makes her the equal of a man who is hunted day and night, and has stood alone for 2 years (He really should have stretched the time line a little bit.) against the shadows direct attention. Title > prophecy? especially when the person she thinks she is greater than actually knows what it is to be Amyrlin? I would have preferred if Rand told Egwene that she could call him Father, just as he pulled the "Rand Sedai" thing with Cadsuane. That would have been great. [/quote']

Ah yes, the inevitable "how DARE she have the audacity to stand up to Rand al'Thor, THE DRAGON REBORN!?" post.

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It really doesn't matter how many times you claim that people only dislike Egwene for daring to stand up to Rand; repetition doesn't make the charge any more valid.

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