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Yep, I still hate Min


eslechta
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I have disliked Min ever since I started reading this series a few years ago. Every character has irritated me at one time or the other, but usually they then do something totally awesome that allow me to forgive them and realize that while flawed, they have a point and a purpose in the series. Min, however still seems completely useless to me. Visions of the future that always come true are not particularly useful and can be misinterpreted. Without the ability to change the outcome of future events, I don't really see the point of the visions.

 

She had a lot of potential to be an excellent, powerful character. She is strong willed, intelligent, and rational. I get that. I don't get why she purposely wears men-styled clothes, then tries to feminize them. If she wants to look like a girl, than look like a girl, but that's just a minor point. Ever since she left Salidar and rejoined Rand, all she has been is a sex toy and a potential liability to Rand.

 

I was hoping that some of her studies would reveal something important in ToM, and that her purpose would be made more obvious, but I was sorely disappointed in her once again. Maybe there will be some great breakthrough in AMoL, I certainly hope so.

 

What really got me in this book was the return visit to Arad Doman. She goes back with Rand and sees the people respond to his new brilliance and become alive and motivated once again. They started cleaning themselves up, and there is mention of some women getting some water to help people wash the grime and despair off. Instead of actually HELPING the people get organized, maybe help wash some faces, or distribute food or water, perhaps pick up a child or help with some cleaning of the warehouse, she just WATCHES what is going on. Like she is to good to get her hands dirty and actually help these people who have been starving for weeks. That scene is what cemented my intense dislike for the character, which I think has now gone past the point of no return, no matter what happens in the last book.

 

Anyone else still hate Min? Can someone explain to me the purpose of that character, besides being Rand's bedmate?

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I would say primarily if it was not for Min I believe Rand would have gone completely insane books ago. She is one of the few people(and the only one with him for now) that he has listened to when he ignored everything else. Plus Rand has needed something to hold onto for a long time now so he didn't go into complete berserk mode.

 

Plus she knows she is not as powerful or strong as most of the other characters which is why she helps in her own way and just does what she is able.

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Nope, never disliked Min for a moment. In fact, I think she has been more important so far that nearly every character.

 

For a while, she was the only anchor to Rand's humanity. Without her, the Shadow would have already won...

 

(...and Puck beat me to it by seconds)

Edited by Xader
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I have hated Min for a long, long time! I see lots of Elayne and Egwene hate, but I think that while annoying, they both have a purpose. I completely understand what you mean about Min being completely pointless! What annoys me about her is the fact that she is everywhere Rand goes. Any scene that might be really good just seems to end up as her being fantastic or beautiful or frowning or all of the above. For me, Branderson has definitely improved on Min, she is certainly not as annoying in his books as she was in Jordan's, but I can't help but think back at how irritating she was then. And, although it probably rounds very, very strange, but Elayne and Aviendha can be sister-wives, but Min isn't Aiel, or even adopted Aiel. Just seems like good old fashioned cheating to me, and then the annoying rubs off on Rand and makes me find him irritating, too. I know that's a really odd view, but it just doesn't seem right to me! Rand, Aviendha and Elayne are all at least a little bit Aiel and she just seems like some Wetlander with a pretty face.

 

And don't get me started on how she, a stable hand, can glean hidden meanings in the Prophecies that three thousand years' worth of scholars could not...

 

Anyway, sorry for ranting, but I just wanted to say I agree with you 100%! :)

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I have disliked Min ever since I started reading this series a few years ago. Every character has irritated me at one time or the other, but usually they then do something totally awesome that allow me to forgive them and realize that while flawed, they have a point and a purpose in the series. Min, however still seems completely useless to me. Visions of the future that always come true are not particularly useful and can be misinterpreted. Without the ability to change the outcome of future events, I don't really see the point of the visions.

 

I agree with you that Min's visions are mostly useless because there is no ability to change them. They haven't even been shown to help anyone in planning for future events. However, that's about the last spot I will agree with you on her. :biggrin: Also, that is not really a character flaw, just that RJ didn't make her abilities as cool as some of the other people's.

 

She had a lot of potential to be an excellent, powerful character. She is strong willed, intelligent, and rational. I get that. I don't get why she purposely wears men-styled clothes, then tries to feminize them. If she wants to look like a girl, than look like a girl, but that's just a minor point.

 

Everyone has their own taste in fashion. I don't see how this is a knock on the character. Do women today walk around in dresses all day or do they mostly wear pants? Why? - Because pants are much more comfortable. Do women wear pants that look just like men's pants or do they have different styles that look more feminine? Nothing wrong with wanting to be comfortable (and more practical - at least without regard to the tall heeled boots) and still look like a pretty woman.

 

Ever since she left Salidar and rejoined Rand, all she has been is a sex toy and a potential liability to Rand.

 

Here is my biggest disagreement with you. Min's main role (and one that is hugely important to the world) is to keep Rand human. To make him feel loved. To maintain a human connection to the world. To give him someone he can absolutely trust and confide in when he starts to become extremely paranoid. To keep him sane as long as possible. All his other friends and girlfriends have other things going on that prevent them from being able to provide this humanizing emotional support. Without Min, Rand would have been ready to blow up the world long before VoG - and he might have made a different choice without her love. Nothing wrong with getting a little action while performing your world-saving duties. :biggrin:

 

I was hoping that some of her studies would reveal something important in ToM, and that her purpose would be made more obvious, but I was sorely disappointed in her once again. Maybe there will be some great breakthrough in AMoL, I certainly hope so.

 

Jury's still out on this one but I think its been setup for Min to find the necessary puzzle pieces to help Rand with defeating the DO.

 

What really got me in this book was the return visit to Arad Doman. She goes back with Rand and sees the people respond to his new brilliance and become alive and motivated once again. They started cleaning themselves up, and there is mention of some women getting some water to help people wash the grime and despair off. Instead of actually HELPING the people get organized, maybe help wash some faces, or distribute food or water, perhaps pick up a child or help with some cleaning of the warehouse, she just WATCHES what is going on. Like she is to good to get her hands dirty and actually help these people who have been starving for weeks. That scene is what cemented my intense dislike for the character, which I think has now gone past the point of no return, no matter what happens in the last book.

 

I'll have to re-read and take a look at this. I certainly don't remember feeling like she was slacking off when I read the book. Its kind of normal to be dumbfounded after witnessing your boyfriend perform a miracle. She's certainly not afraid to get her hands dirty - she's worked as a barmaid, in the stables, and I believe around the mines. She certainly didn't do anything so terrible in this scene to earn such scorn.

 

Anyone else still hate Min? Can someone explain to me the purpose of that character, besides being Rand's bedmate?

 

I've seen one other person on the boards that seems to dislike Min as much as you. Most people that don't actually have her as a favorite mostly just have a "meh" feel for her. Hate seems like such a strong emotion for a character that really doesn't do anything wrong throughout the books. She's shown as intelligent, brave, selfless, and loving. You don't see the power grabbing ambition, manipulation, or arrogance that you see from a lot of the other characters. She's maybe a bit more boring than many of the others and gets to do less cool things, but I don't see how she is hate-able.

 

By the way, welcome to the boards.

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And, although it probably rounds very, very strange, but Elayne and Aviendha can be sister-wives, but Min isn't Aiel, or even adopted Aiel. Just seems like good old fashioned cheating to me, and then the annoying rubs off on Rand and makes me find him irritating, too. I know that's a really odd view, but it just doesn't seem right to me! Rand, Aviendha and Elayne are all at least a little bit Aiel and she just seems like some Wetlander with a pretty face.

 

Its not cheating if all the parties involved agree to the arrangement. Being Aiel has nothing to do with it. Just because their culture already has this type of arrangement doesn't mean that others cannot have the same arrangement if everyone agrees to it. Which Elayne and Aviendha both do. Let's not forget that without Min's help Elayne would never have gotten her Rand action and they wouldn't have the three-way Warder bond. Rand asked Min not to let them know he was in Caemlyn but she did anyways (at a personal cost to herself, as she would prefer not to share Rand) because she is a good friend.

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Its not cheating if all the parties involved agree to the arrangement. Being Aiel has nothing to do with it. Just because their culture already has this type of arrangement doesn't mean that others cannot have the same arrangement if everyone agrees to it. Which Elayne and Aviendha both do. Let's not forget that without Min's help Elayne would never have gotten her Rand action and they wouldn't have the three-way Warder bond. Rand asked Min not to let them know he was in Caemlyn but she did anyways (at a personal cost to herself, as she would prefer not to share Rand) because she is a good friend.

 

Oh, I know that they're all consenting, which is why I did say that I know my opinion will sound very, very strange, but I still can't help finding it really odd. I mean, in the real world, we often find situations strange that other people are fine with, don't we? She's in it so much that I really, really wish she didn't annoy me, but I can't really help that. My rage problems certainly aren't as bad when reading TGS/TofM, thankfully I find her much less irritating in those. :)

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I have hated Min for a long, long time! I see lots of Elayne and Egwene hate, but I think that while annoying, they both have a purpose. I completely understand what you mean about Min being completely pointless! What annoys me about her is the fact that she is everywhere Rand goes. Any scene that might be really good just seems to end up as her being fantastic or beautiful or frowning or all of the above. For me, Branderson has definitely improved on Min, she is certainly not as annoying in his books as she was in Jordan's, but I can't help but think back at how irritating she was then. And, although it probably rounds very, very strange, but Elayne and Aviendha can be sister-wives, but Min isn't Aiel, or even adopted Aiel. Just seems like good old fashioned cheating to me, and then the annoying rubs off on Rand and makes me find him irritating, too. I know that's a really odd view, but it just doesn't seem right to me! Rand, Aviendha and Elayne are all at least a little bit Aiel and she just seems like some Wetlander with a pretty face.

 

And don't get me started on how she, a stable hand, can glean hidden meanings in the Prophecies that three thousand years' worth of scholars could not...

 

Anyway, sorry for ranting, but I just wanted to say I agree with you 100%! :)

You realize that Rand isn't actually married to either Aviendha or Elayne, right?

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I don't hate Min. She certainly isn't among my favorite characters, but I don't see much reason to hate her. She's smart, she's courageous, she's devoted to Rand, she's honest, and she's less hypocritical and less sexist than any of the other female wetlanders.

 

She just doesn't do much. Or at least, hasn't so far. Too me, that just makes her a minor character, not a hateful one.

 

I think it is just silly to suggest that she is somehow "cheating" with Rand. She is, after all, the one who has known him longest, and the one who actually spends time with him. If anything, her "claim" on Rand would seem to me to be stronger than that of either of the other two.

 

And her purpose in Arad Doman was to be the narrator of the scene. She couldn't do that if she was washing an endless succession of dirty faces.

 

I wonder if it isn't the devotion to Rand that bugs some people so much about her?

Edited by randsc
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Others have already pointed out Min's purpose (keeping Rand stable and anchored to humanity) and a few other counterpoints I'd have made, so I'll just respond to this:

 

And don't get me started on how she, a stable hand, can glean hidden meanings in the Prophecies that three thousand years' worth of scholars could not...

 

Well, okay. But she's a stable hand who also happens to be, for all intents and purpose, a Seer. Personally, I'll accept the idea that at least a decade of seeing and trying to understand her own prophetic visions has given her a knack for unraveling other prophecies. (The decade estimate comes from my understanding that she started having visions when she was fourteen and that she's in her mid-twenties now.)

 

As for her being a stable hand and a barmaid and so forth, let me put this thought out there for you:

 

Egwene was an innkeeper's daughter and she's now Amyrlin. Does she not deserve her status because she started out almost as low as Min? If Egwene can rise above her humble background and become a nineteen-year-old prodigy who's capable of outwitting women who've been pulling the world's strings for a hundred years or more, why can't Min also rise above being a stable hand, and to a much lesser extent at that? She didn't become Amyrlin. She's just emotional support for the Dragon Reborn and an occasional prophet, equivalent to a channeler who has the Talent for Foretelling.

 

For that matter, Siuan was a fisherman's daughter. Did her origins disqualify her for future greatness?

 

How about Mat and Perrin? They're a couple of inbred hillbillies. If they weren't ta'veren (which is an inborn trait and not an earned ability, or even a choice), they'd still be forging horseshoes and, in Mat's case, probably stealing the horses for Perrin to put the horseshoes on. Without telling Perrin about it, of course.

 

And Nynaeve? A village Wisdom from some piddling backwater who's the same age as Min and who just happens to be able to instinctively heal things which no one in three thousand years (and, in at least one case, no one even in the Age of Legends) had ever figured out how to heal. If she can do that, why can't Min use her innate gift to glean more meaning from the prophecies? Compared to Nynaeve, that's a very modest accomplishment.

 

These books are full of very unlikely rises to greatness. If you don't like Min, you don't like her, but it seems unfair to single her out for a trait that almost every other hero in this story shares.

Edited by Teutonic Titwillow
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She had a lot of potential to be an excellent, powerful character. She is strong willed, intelligent, and rational. I get that. I don't get why she purposely wears men-styled clothes, then tries to feminize them. If she wants to look like a girl, than look like a girl, but that's just a minor point.

 

Everyone has their own taste in fashion. I don't see how this is a knock on the character. Do women today walk around in dresses all day or do they mostly wear pants? Why? - Because pants are much more comfortable. Do women wear pants that look just like men's pants or do they have different styles that look more feminine? Nothing wrong with wanting to be comfortable (and more practical - at least without regard to the tall heeled boots) and still look like a pretty woman.

 

Ever since she left Salidar and rejoined Rand, all she has been is a sex toy and a potential liability to Rand.

 

Here is my biggest disagreement with you. Min's main role (and one that is hugely important to the world) is to keep Rand human. To make him feel loved. To maintain a human connection to the world. To give him someone he can absolutely trust and confide in when he starts to become extremely paranoid. To keep him sane as long as possible. All his other friends and girlfriends have other things going on that prevent them from being able to provide this humanizing emotional support. Without Min, Rand would have been ready to blow up the world long before VoG - and he might have made a different choice without her love. Nothing wrong with getting a little action while performing your world-saving duties. :biggrin:

 

I was hoping that some of her studies would reveal something important in ToM, and that her purpose would be made more obvious, but I was sorely disappointed in her once again. Maybe there will be some great breakthrough in AMoL, I certainly hope so.

 

Jury's still out on this one but I think its been setup for Min to find the necessary puzzle pieces to help Rand with defeating the DO.

 

What really got me in this book was the return visit to Arad Doman. She goes back with Rand and sees the people respond to his new brilliance and become alive and motivated once again. They started cleaning themselves up, and there is mention of some women getting some water to help people wash the grime and despair off. Instead of actually HELPING the people get organized, maybe help wash some faces, or distribute food or water, perhaps pick up a child or help with some cleaning of the warehouse, she just WATCHES what is going on. Like she is to good to get her hands dirty and actually help these people who have been starving for weeks. That scene is what cemented my intense dislike for the character, which I think has now gone past the point of no return, no matter what happens in the last book.

 

I'll have to re-read and take a look at this. I certainly don't remember feeling like she was slacking off when I read the book. Its kind of normal to be dumbfounded after witnessing your boyfriend perform a miracle. She's certainly not afraid to get her hands dirty - she's worked as a barmaid, in the stables, and I believe around the mines. She certainly didn't do anything so terrible in this scene to earn such scorn.

 

Anyone else still hate Min? Can someone explain to me the purpose of that character, besides being Rand's bedmate?

 

I've seen one other person on the boards that seems to dislike Min as much as you. Most people that don't actually have her as a favorite mostly just have a "meh" feel for her. Hate seems like such a strong emotion for a character that really doesn't do anything wrong throughout the books. She's shown as intelligent, brave, selfless, and loving. You don't see the power grabbing ambition, manipulation, or arrogance that you see from a lot of the other characters. She's maybe a bit more boring than many of the others and gets to do less cool things, but I don't see how she is hate-able.

 

By the way, welcome to the boards.

 

 

On the fashion:

 

I did say it was minor, and I do agree with most of what you said. I just remember her saying how much she hated looking feminine, then she feminized her "unfeminine" clothes, if you get my point. Speaking as a girl who lives in jeans, I am not knocking the desire to be comfortable, just my perception of her reasons. I could be making this up since I do dislike her so much.

 

 

On the keeping him human: A lot of people say this, but I just don't see it. I can understand why people think she does, but I just don't think she did play that role all that well. We will have to agree to disagree on that part.

 

On the In awe of his miracle: I am talking about BEFORE the miracle of saving the food. I do think she deserves the scorn, but again we can agree to disagree. That didn't stop her from snapping irritably at the poor merchant who was trying to save lives when he (rightly, in my opinion) berated Rand for abandoning Arad Doman. Loving someone means you recognize their faults as well as their greater attributes, and just blindly defending Rand when he did do the wrong thing doesn't add anything to her character for me. I also haven't seen her do anything to help anyone since she helped Siuan and Leanne escape the white tower. Nyneave is constantly trying to heal the sick, Perrin and Mat are always worried about their people, Elayne is Queen, and Egewene has the White Tower. As arrogant and silly I think Egwene and Elayne are at times, they are looking at the big picture of saving many people and are concerned for the people around then. I just don't think Min cares the tiniest bit about the last battle or anyone but herself and Rand at all.

 

Hate may be too strong, but intense dislike is definitely there. I understand I am in the minority, but there it is. Thanks for the welcome. I have poked my head in on occasion, but rarely post. This is a great place to have discussions like this!

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I don't hate Min. She certainly isn't among my favorite characters, but I don't see much reason to hate her. She's smart, she's courageous, she's devoted to Rand, she's honest, and she's less hypocritical and less sexist than any of the other female wetlanders.

 

She just doesn't do much. Or at least, hasn't so far. Too me, that just makes her a minor character, not a hateful one.

 

I think it is just silly to suggest that she is somehow "cheating" with Rand. She is, after all, the one who has known him longest, and the one who actually spends time with him. If anything, her "claim" on Rand would seem to me to be stronger than that of either of the other two.

 

And her purpose in Arad Doman was to be the narrator of the scene. She couldn't do that if she was washing an endless succession of dirty faces.

 

I wonder if it isn't the devotion to Rand that bugs some people so much about her?

 

 

She could have still been a narrator while taking a more active role in what was happening. It wouldn't have to be major "Min grabbed a rag and started helping the women, all the while amazed at the impact Rand's presence was having on these beaten-down, starving people".

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The fashion thing is easily understood. There are even allusions to it in the text.

 

Quite simply: She has a nice ass, knows it, and wants to emphasize it.

 

Or, if you prefer a gentler way of saying it, she has selected a style that flatters her figure.

 

In the real world, virtually all women and a great many men do the same.

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Pretty much the only thing I don't like about Min is that her viewings spoil the plot too much, but that's not her fault. Otherwise, she's likable, if a bit underdeveloped character. Rand needs someone who doesn't have other duties or strong personal agenda and can concentrate almost exclusively on supporting him, and Min is there for him.

 

And don't get me started on how she, a stable hand, can glean hidden meanings in the Prophecies that three thousand years' worth of scholars could not...

She has the huge advantage of being near the Dragon Reborn, seeing firsthand how things develop around him, and using this knowledge in gleaning meaning out of the prophesies. Even taking this into account, it's a bit unrealistic, but in this series everyone became an expert in his field in record time, often in way less convicing fashion, so this is a minor point at best.

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That didn't stop her from snapping irritably at the poor merchant who was trying to save lives when he (rightly, in my opinion) berated Rand for abandoning Arad Doman. Loving someone means you recognize their faults as well as their greater attributes, and just blindly defending Rand when he did do the wrong thing doesn't add anything to her character for me. I also haven't seen her do anything to help anyone since she helped Siuan and Leanne escape the white tower. Nyneave is constantly trying to heal the sick, Perrin and Mat are always worried about their people, Elayne is Queen, and Egewene has the White Tower. As arrogant and silly I think Egwene and Elayne are at times, they are looking at the big picture of saving many people and are concerned for the people around then. I just don't think Min cares the tiniest bit about the last battle or anyone but herself and Rand at all.

 

Who are Min's people? I would argue that Rand is. Devotion of that sort may not be the stuff heroic fanatasy is usually made of, but it does exist in the real world, and is not contemptible.

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Caring primarily for Rand is about as much "seeing the big picture" as possible. If he dies or goes insane, the world is literally over very soon. So Min's role as the person who supports him the most and is always there to show his love, is as important as anyone's.

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My only problem with Min is that I simply don't get when did she become Scholar who honestly thinks she can figure out what's wrong with Callandor. Or about anything else for that matter.

 

 

A big + for Min is that she actually tells people what she sees (Min's viewings). She doesn't hold back telling her information just for the sake of holding back information, like 99% of characters in this series.

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Min has had a few very important plot events that were overlooked.

 

1. She encouraged Rand's Insanity -- she spoke of two people merging and one dieing. Rand took this as 'Rand' and 'Lews Therin' instead of following the path to come back to normalcy. No one else could have done this.

 

2. She was a tool in Suian's escape from the tower.

 

3. She encouraged Elayne's Stupidity in Camelyn ("I am safe because the babies will be born healthy" stupidity).

 

On second thought, she has been more of a help for the Dark One than anything else, continuing the insanity, breaking the tower further, and encouraging Elayne's stupidity.

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Min has had a few very important plot events that were overlooked.

 

1. She encouraged Rand's Insanity -- she spoke of two people merging and one dieing. Rand took this as 'Rand' and 'Lews Therin' instead of following the path to come back to normalcy. No one else could have done this.

 

2. She was a tool in Suian's escape from the tower.

 

3. She encouraged Elayne's Stupidity in Camelyn ("I am safe because the babies will be born healthy" stupidity).

 

On second thought, she has been more of a help for the Dark One than anything else, continuing the insanity, breaking the tower further, and encouraging Elayne's stupidity.

 

Agreed, and I would also like to add that Min did not restore Rand's humanity, or even save it. Tam is the one that did that. I don't like Cadsuane that much, but she was correct in bringing Tam to Rand.

 

ETA: I don't blame her for Elayne's stupidity, but it does go to my original point of her visions being misinterpreted.

Edited by eslechta
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I don't dislike Min, I just wish her research would be more fruitful. She's only been going at it for what, five books?

Edited by Aeo Sedai
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Min has had a few very important plot events that were overlooked.

 

1. She encouraged Rand's Insanity -- she spoke of two people merging and one dieing. Rand took this as 'Rand' and 'Lews Therin' instead of following the path to come back to normalcy. No one else could have done this.

 

2. She was a tool in Suian's escape from the tower.

 

3. She encouraged Elayne's Stupidity in Camelyn ("I am safe because the babies will be born healthy" stupidity).

 

On second thought, she has been more of a help for the Dark One than anything else, continuing the insanity, breaking the tower further, and encouraging Elayne's stupidity.

 

1. She encouraged Rand's Insanity -- she spoke of two people merging and one dieing. Rand took this as 'Rand' and 'Lews Therin' instead of following the path to come back to normalcy. No one else could have done this.

 

How can you blame Min for Rand's failing to acknowledge that he is Lews Therin? No my friend it's the very reverse, without Min Rand would have snapped a long time ago when he did he wasn't going to come back.

 

2. She was a tool in Suian's escape from the tower.

 

Siuan had to escape to ensure to the unity of the White Tower. The Tower was already broken and could not be fixed under Elaida's leadership. For something to be remade first it must be broken. So, Min has saved the world twice now.

 

3. She encouraged Elayne's Stupidity in Camelyn ("I am safe because the babies will be born healthy" stupidity).

 

Amazing. You're actually blaming Min for the character faults of others. That is so foolish.

 

The real reason some people don't like Min is the simply fact that she isn't by their standards a "strong woman". Simply because she doesn't torture her friends (Egwene) she isn't "strong" enough for them.

Edited by Jon Paul
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Min has had a few very important plot events that were overlooked.

 

1. She encouraged Rand's Insanity -- she spoke of two people merging and one dieing. Rand took this as 'Rand' and 'Lews Therin' instead of following the path to come back to normalcy. No one else could have done this.

 

It is not Min's fault in anyway whatsoever if people misinterpret her visions. All she can do is tell what she sees. Let's not forget that Rand was actually relieved by this revelation and felt more sane after she did him the vision. Rand was already feeling crazy and would have felt more so if he didn't believe that there was an explanation for it. Plus what Min sees always happens. We have not seen anybody change anything she sees so this was always going to happen regardless of Min's actions.

 

2. She was a tool in Suian's escape from the tower.

 

She was a brave and selfless rescuer. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a knock on Min or not? Are you arguing that Siuan escaping somehow benefitted the Shadow? Without Siuan, Egwene likely wouldn't have accomplished what she did and the White Tower would still be broke with a crazy Elaida in control. I would say this is one of her foremost accomplishments in the books, particularly for those that don't feel her humanizing support for Rand is much of a help or purpose.

 

3. She encouraged Elayne's Stupidity in Camelyn ("I am safe because the babies will be born healthy" stupidity).

 

Really? She's says that Elayne's babies will be born healthy and Elayne's amazing stupidity in believing she is now invincible is Min's fault. I've not read a single person on these boards that haven't pointed out the myriad ways that Elayne could be harmed without the babies being harmed. Elayne should certainly be able to figure that out for herself.

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The real reason some people don't like Min is the simply fact that she isn't by their standards a "strong woman".

 

 

I think there is something to this. Min is a lousy avatar of 21st Century feminism, therefore for some readers cannot be an admirable character.

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I really like Min, but agree that some aspects of her feel a bit strange, like the clothing thing. But I see it more as a little flaw in the writing (another failed attempt at creating erotic tension) as a problem of her character, so she doesn't annoy me because of that.

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The real reason some people don't like Min is the simply fact that she isn't by their standards a "strong woman". Simply because she doesn't torture her friends (Egwene) she isn't "strong" enough for them.
Talk about a non sequitur. I doubt very much that anyone who isn't a Min fan, or even any of randsc's evil feminists, would be more inclined to become a Min fan if she tortured her friends.
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