Binding the 9 Moons- Theory

[FantasyMike]

As you saw from the title, this is my wacky theory regarding the prophecy that Rand will bind the 9 moons to him. To my knowledge, Tuon is no longer the d Daughter of the 9 Moons. And as of yet, most people agree that this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Part of my theory is that Mat+Tuon will have a kid or at least Tuon will be pregnant before the series is over. My theory is that Rand will negotiate an agreement where one of his male children will wed Mat/Tuon's first girl child.

 

Any thoughts, or reasons that I am just flat out wrong, will be greatly appreciated.

[randsc]

The prophecy was not that the Dragon will bind the Daughter of the Nine Moons to him. It was that he would bind the Nine Moons to him. So the fact that Tuon is no longer the Daughter of the Nine Moons actually makes binding the None Moons to Rand simpler than you suppose, I suspect.

[FantasyMike]

My apologies on messing up that wording, but I think most people agree that my accidental interpretation is correct. Now I think I am missing the point of your post; are you saying that prophecy isn't going to be or hasn't been fulfilled yet? And if not, then what do you think of my theory of how it will play out?

[Suttree]

My apologies on messing up that wording, but I think most people agree that my accidental interpretation is correct. Now I think I am missing the point of your post; are you saying that prophecy isn't going to be or hasn't been fulfilled yet? And if not, then what do you think of my theory of how it will play out?

 

He is saying now that Tuon is actually the 9 Moons as opposed to the "daughter" of the 9 Moons it is possible for Rand to bind her to him. It clears the way for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

[FantasyMike]

Thanks for the clarifications... do most people believe that? I've never really seen/thought of it before.

[Sid]

The Empress presides over the Court of the Nine Moons.

 

Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons, the child of the Empress holding her highest favor. Galgan calls her "Highest Daughter" before she names herself Empress.

 

One could assume that the Nine Moons is either another name for the leader of Seanchan or the royal family of Seanchan or merely where they hold formal court and a symbol of the Empress which is close enough for prophecy.

 

Binding the Nine Moons would indicate either binding either the Empress of Seanchan (as the sole member of the ruling family) or possibly the entire Seanchan nation (through her) to him.

 

 

The Creator only knows when Tuon will let Mat do more than a single kiss. If ever, it would probably be in an Epilogue well after the dust has cleared...

[Luckers]

Thanks for the clarifications... do most people believe that? I've never really seen/thought of it before.

 

It is the common interpretation, yes. In fact I find it funny that Tuon held off naming herself Empress so that she could meet Rand as equals, which to her mind the Empress could never do, when by naming herself Empress she exposes herself to being bound.

[dovien]

“Neither the first nor the last,” Moiraine said. “Callandor will be but one fulfillment of The Karaethon Cycle, as his birth on the slopes of Dragonmount was the first. He has yet to break the nations, or shatter the world. Even scholars who have studied the Prophecies for their entire lives do not know how to interpret them all. What does it mean that he ‘shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf? What does it meant that he ‘shall bind the nine moons to serve him’? Yet these are given equal weight with Callandor in the Cycle. There are others. What ‘wounds of madness and cutting of hope’ has he healed? What chains has he broken, and who put into chains? And some are so obscure that he may already have fulfilled them, although I am not aware of it. But, no. Callandor is far from the end of it.”

For reference. Emphasis mine.

[Jillain Sanche]

And maybe it will all come down to the warder's bond, during battle or before. That would force Tuon to serve Rand for a fact.

[mb]

I think I would agree with the interpretation of he binding Seanchan through Tuon. 9 Moons I take can refer to either ruler or heir.

[OptimusPrime]

Thanks for the clarifications... do most people believe that? I've never really seen/thought of it before.

 

It is the common interpretation, yes. In fact I find it funny that Tuon held off naming herself Empress so that she could meet Rand as equals, which to her mind the Empress could never do, when by naming herself Empress she exposes herself to being bound.

 

I enjoyed this as well. I think the series is full of these little things, where a character has an awesome and very understandable view on things still end up being wrong or naive.

 

I think the theory on Rand and Mats kids marrying is an interesting take on it. For the record I dont think Rand will bond Tuon. I think the Nine Moons refers to the Seanchan and some sort of treaty between Rand and Tuon but not where one bonds the other. More of a peace treaty that may or may not involve someone being bonded but Im not sure to be honest. I think to expect a bonding would be asking a bit much of Tuon; look at how the Seanchan view channelers. They are animals. Granted, Rand could have the impact that would change all that, but I dont think that will be involved in the fulfilment of this prophecy, not in the last book.

 

I agree with Lan. I think a peace treaty involving an arranged marriage between their kids is a strong possibility. If Rand bonded Tuon she would see that as him having a mark on her, with her being the inferior. I doubt she will learn to bond him, shes already shown us her views on learning to channel. An arranged marriage is something she can see and understand where both parties are clearly giving as much as the other, which I think would fit Fortuona the Empress once she figures out that she isnt superior to the Dragon Reborn.

[Luckers]

My baseless pet theory is that Rand will in some way force Fortuona to begin channeling, thus forcing her to need his aid in holding the Empire together in the face of such an event--like he masks her ability or something to keep the knowledge of it from destroying the Empire at such a critical time, and she is thus forced to rely on him. It's mainly because I like the idea of Fortuona being forced to 'choose' to channel in order to save the Empire--I fully think she'd have the guts to demand to be leashed, but if it was on the eve of TG and the Empire needed to be strong... decisions decisions.

[blazetheearth]

My baseless pet theory is that Rand will in some way force Fortuona to begin channeling, thus forcing her to need his aid in holding the Empire together in the face of such an event--like he masks her ability or something to keep the knowledge of it from destroying the Empire at such a critical time, and she is thus forced to rely on him. It's mainly because I like the idea of Fortuona being forced to 'choose' to channel in order to save the Empire--I fully think she'd have the guts to demand to be leashed, but if it was on the eve of TG and the Empire needed to be strong... decisions decisions.

 

I agree that something will happen that forces Tuon to channel. Personally, I believe that it will be to save Mat's life.

 

As far as the binding goes, I really wish that RJ had written out all of the prophecies in the full form (so the we can see all that the various characters see), because the clipped form that Moraine gives us in the quote above seems to be referring to Rand, but it is possible that it refers to Mat instead. The "he" is ambiguous in that quote as it is part of Moraine's statement not part of the quote from The Prophecy. She threw the tag end of a prophetic phrase out there, but with none of the context in which it was placed in the Prophecy. We have seen that both Mat and Perrin are described in the Prophecy of the Dragon. It's entirely possible that the preceding line might have been something like "As the Trickster carries away the Raven, so then shall he bind the Nine Moons to him." Many of the fans accept the reference as being about Rand, because the character's accept it. But you have to wonder if all of the Prophecy scholars thought that the Dragon Reborn would also be the Wolf King and the Gambler, since Moraine seemed so surprised to find 3 ta'veren, not just the one she sought. Her surprise seemed to be that there were more than one, not that they were all in the same place. Few characters that we have seen through the first few books were not surprised by the fact that Rand had companions, which would imply that many saw the Prophecy as being about Rand entirely with no others mentioned, but we now know that that viewpoint is incorrect (many things become clear in hindsight).

 

I'm not saying that this scenario is one that I firmly believe, but I have made no decisions about what pieces of the Prophecy may mean since we have no context in which to place them.

[yoniy0]

The part that often gets overlooked in this kind of discussion is that the prophecies don't just mention binding. He "shall bind the nine moons to serve him". Marrying Mat is hardly a promise of servitude, don't you agree? Personally, I find it hard to fathom Fortuona deferring to anyone, but if she will, I can't see that someone being Toy.

 

Best interpretation I can think of is the Ever Victorious Army serving his goals/plans in TG (and afterwards, in a way, but no more on that). Only that's not epic enough. I guess I'd just have to let RJ (or BS, but I hope it'll be RJ) surprise me.

[blazetheearth]

The part that often gets overlooked in this kind of discussion is that the prophecies don't just mention binding. He "shall bind the nine moons to serve him". Marrying Mat is hardly a promise of servitude, don't you agree? Personally, I find it hard to fathom Fortuona deferring to anyone, but if she will, I can't see that someone being Toy.

 

Best interpretation I can think of is the Ever Victorious Army serving his goals/plans in TG (and afterwards, in a way, but no more on that). Only that's not epic enough. I guess I'd just have to let RJ (or BS, but I hope it'll be RJ) surprise me.

 

Marrying Mat might not constitute "serving" him, unless she or her empire end up doing it. Just because we have not seen her serve Mat doesn't mean that she/they wont do it. And it does not mention how long this service would be so it could be a single act that forwards one of Mat's goals. A single act of service would qualify for the "to serve him".

 

This is why I say that while speculation on pieces out of context can be fun, but without more information all speculation based on assumption, either the character's assumptions (which have proven wrong often in the past) or the reader's assumptions (which have also often been proven wrong).

 

That is why I want the full Prophecies (Jendai, Kaerathon (sp), Rhudiean, etc) published. I'd prefer an e-book format for them, but I might buy a paperback of them. Not a hardback though (I learned that lesson with David Edding's "Rivan Codex"). And I doubt I could listen to an audio book of the various Prophecies, though it might be interesting once and only once to hear read aloud.

 

I agree that I am looking forward to being surprised on how it turns out, which is why I have not locked my mind on any single interpretation of the Prophecy pieces we have.

[scott7279]

My take on it was that he would "bind" the nine moons with an a'dam. Somehow, Tuon will wind up with an a'dam on her, proving that she can channel, and causing upheavel in the Seanchan social structure. This could also act to tie her strongly to Rand, since she may need his protection to keep her power.

 

What do y'all think?

[Luckers]

The problem is that Fortuona hasn't worked as a sul'dam long enough for an a'dam to hold her yet. We know this for a fact as even sul'dam continue to get tested up to the age of twenty-four, and even those who work full time as a sul'dam never test positive. Fortuona only ever worked as a sul'dam as a sort of hobby. The a'dam would not hold her yet.

[randsc]

Fortuona wouldn't yet be held by an a'dam. But she can channel. And that means that things that work only on channelers will work on her. The Oath Rod, for example, which during the AoL were called binding rods.

[blazetheearth]

Fortuona wouldn't yet be held by an a'dam. But she can channel. And that means that things that work only on channelers will work on her. The Oath Rod, for example, which during the AoL were called binding rods.

 

True, and all it takes is for her to use one weave then the a'dam can hold her.

[moratcorlm]

Interesting to note that the Oath Rod doesn't require the person being bound to channel the Spirit into it. I wonder if a pre-sparker would be bound, though. If Tuon were to take Three Oaths, for instance, would she die of old age at 30?

[Luckers]

Fortuona wouldn't yet be held by an a'dam. But she can channel. And that means that things that work only on channelers will work on her. The Oath Rod, for example, which during the AoL were called binding rods.

 

Actually, technically, Fortuona can learn to channel. She cannot currently channel. As such we do not know if the Oath Rod would work on her--indeed, something that only works on channelers does not work on her--the a'dam. Sheriam's comment about 'opening' oneself to the Source being the factor that opens you to being forcibly turned to the Shadow does show that actually starting to channel changes ones nature specifically. This coincides with a number of other changes--the sense of 'kinship' other channelers experience, for instance.

 

All in all an active channeler is very different from a potential channeler. I don't find it unreasonable that this aspect would be needed for the Oath Rod to function. An interesting question would be if an older sul'dam, closer to the point of change, could be bound or forcibly turned.

[Kathleen]

For the Oath Rod to work doesn't she have to channel into it? If she can't channel can the Oath Rod effect her? Could someone else channel into it and have it affect her or would it only affect the one who channels into it?

[yoniy0]

For the Oath Rod to work doesn't she have to channel into it? If she can't channel can the Oath Rod effect her? Could someone else channel into it and have it affect her or would it only affect the one who channels into it?

It works on the one holding the Rod regardless of who's channeling into it. That's how Galina was Bound, if memory serves.

[Kathleen]

aww ok, I was wondering how it would have worked in the AoL on people who couldn't channel.

[moratcorlm]

It didn't; the binding rods were developed specifically for the problem of criminal channelers. We see in the Black Ajah hunter storyline that other tools can be used for non-channelers. But it makes sense that you'd want to be able to use the rod on someone who was probably being shielded.