Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Randland is to earth as...


Recommended Posts

One of the lingering questions that I've wondered about Randland is just how the different nations/nationalities tied together, if at all, with our world. I'm sure this topic had been raised before, but it seems that I'm not tech-saavy enough to locate it on the forums or just lazy. I'm leaning towards the latter. Be that as it may any info into this topic would be profoundly interesting to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the lingering questions that I've wondered about Randland is just how the different nations/nationalities tied together, if at all, with our world. I'm sure this topic had been raised before, but it seems that I'm not tech-saavy enough to locate it on the forums or just lazy. I'm leaning towards the latter. Be that as it may any info into this topic would be profoundly interesting to me.

 

A lot of different people have tried to link the various countries of Randland to the nations existing in our world, but truly it's just a mess. Tanchico uses chopstick to eat spicy food cut into strips and bite size pieces, but it is the domani that have coppery skin, while the Cairheinen are described as short, but Saldeans have tilted eyes. They is no way from RJ's descriptions to anchor any one current nationality into Randland. But many have tried, I would suggest checking the 13th Depository. Linda has done an amazing job of finding the various symbolism in the books and piecing it together with information from RJ interviews to create a vivid picture of what all is included in the books.

 

Here's a link

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you much for the reply/link. Went to the site and "WOW" Expansive, if indeed that is a word, would be quite apt in describing it. Lots of reading, interesting reading there. Much as I imagine a depository would be, if it were electronic, on the web... I jumped to the site, via the link, got hit by the 'wow' factor, bookmarked it, then hopped back here to post. I believe I could easily spend quite a bit of time reading through it 'a-z'. It may not be as good as a talk with Mr. Jordan himself, but it's as close as I'm going to get on this side of life, outside of talking with the Mrs. or BS. Which brings me to my next point which I decided to make a seperate post about.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you much for the reply/link. Went to the site and "WOW" Expansive, if indeed that is a word, would be quite apt in describing it. Lots of reading, interesting reading there. Much as I imagine a depository would be, if it were electronic, on the web... I jumped to the site, via the link, got hit by the 'wow' factor, bookmarked it, then hopped back here to post. I believe I could easily spend quite a bit of time reading through it 'a-z'. It may not be as good as a talk with Mr. Jordan himself, but it's as close as I'm going to get on this side of life, outside of talking with the Mrs. or BS. Which brings me to my next point which I decided to make a seperate post about.

 

I (and many others here on DM) am always happy to help expand the knowledge of others. After all, you can't provide an informed debate of various subjects if you are lacking all of the information. As others led me to these sites, I try to pay it forward. Hope you enjoy the expanded information. Welcome to Dragonmount.

Edited by Ishadar
Link to post
Share on other sites

Withoutout reading through that link, here's how I would break it down.

 

Saldaeans = Israelis

Sheinarans = Japanese

Andorans = English

Cairheinen = French

Aeil = Celts of some sort

Tairens = Spanish

Seanchan = Chinese

Murandians = tough one. Continental European fuedal culture, Irish accents.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Withoutout reading through that link, here's how I would break it down.

 

Saldaeans = Israelis

Sheinarans = Japanese

Andorans = English

Cairheinen = French

Aeil = Celts of some sort

Tairens = Spanish

Seanchan = Chinese

Murandians = tough one. Continental European fuedal culture, Irish accents.

 

I mostly can agree with those generalizations, except possibly for the Aiel. I always took their social structure to be more representative of Native Americans. Not looks, just the general tribal structure and the ways of honor and obligation. Or are these based mostly on looks?

 

But you left out Altarans, Domani, Ghealdhanans, Kandori, Arafelen, Illianers and Taraboners. Any ideas on those?

Edited by Ishadar
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, looks are part of it, certainly. But it isn't like clans and septs are unknown to the Celtic world, is it? The fact that Jordan choose to refer to the Aeil social structure as "clans" and not "tribes" also strikes me as meaningful.

 

Most of the smaller cultures seem to me to be more amalgrams than the fairly direct correlates I listed. Illian has always bugged me. Basically an English/Early American seagoing accent. Enemy of Spain(Tear). What is it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, looks are part of it, certainly. But it isn't like clans and septs are unknown to the Celtic world, is it? The fact that Jordan choose to refer to the Aeil social structure as "clans" and not "tribes" also strikes me as meaningful.

 

Most of the smaller cultures seem to me to be more amalgrams than the fairly direct correlates I listed. Illian has always bugged me. Basically an English/Early American seagoing accent. Enemy of Spain(Tear). What is it?

 

Possibly Dutch. The sentence structure that Illianers 'do be using' is similar to that for almost any Germanic language with a direct translation to English. And the Dutch were at war with Spain, England and France all three (both at once and separately) during the 17th Century mainly because of colonies in the Caribbean.

 

I agree that clans and septs were how many Celtic and Gallic people were referred to, I was simply thinking of attitudes toward honor and the interactions of the clans among themselves struck me as more of 15th Century Native Americans as opposed to Roman Era Celts.

Edited by Ishadar
Link to post
Share on other sites

Illian is a mixture of the Dutch and Greeks. Aiel society is very celtic and Native American, though ethnically they're Scandinavian. Altara is very much Italy from a few hundred years ago, and Arad Doman is Persian in many respects. Cairhien seems to be both French and somewhat culturally Japanese.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm Dutch and I believe that Ghealdan is more Dutch culture than Illian is. The sea is the only thing missing.

Illian is without any doubt Greek.

 

Arad Doman feels more Indian (as in India) to me.

Edited by fikkie77
Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the smaller cultures seem to me to be more amalgrams than the fairly direct correlates I listed.

 

All countries (as well as pretty much everything else in WOT) are amalgamations of several different things. You can't point at Shienar and say it equals Japan. There are several other influences in there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the smaller cultures seem to me to be more amalgrams than the fairly direct correlates I listed.

 

All countries (as well as pretty much everything else in WOT) are amalgamations of several different things. You can't point at Shienar and say it equals Japan. There are several other influences in there.

 

Yeah, obviously. But there are pretty direct real-world correlates (albeit with elements of other cultures) for several of the larger nations in WOT. I think the Andor=England thing is damn-near indisputable, for example.

 

The real-world influences are less obvious with the WOT nations that see less screen-time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aiel society is very celtic and Native American, though ethnically they're Scandinavian.

 

 

Interesting. Where do you get Scandinavian?

 

Jordan's physical description of the Aeil is virtually identical to Julius Caesar's description of the Gauls.

Link to post
Share on other sites

WOTfaq has a nicew breakdown of national parallels here

 

But most of those are unsourced, and so no more valid than opinions here. That faq has been dead-wrong too many times to inspire confidence.

 

Though I will admit that they make a compelling case for Altara=Italy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

WOTfaq has a nicew breakdown of national parallels here

 

But most of those are unsourced, and so no more valid than opinions here. That faq has been dead-wrong too many times to inspire confidence.

 

Though I will admit that they make a compelling case for Altara=Italy.

 

The analysis is by no means concrete. But it is a decent starting point from which to extrapolate.

 

And I was unable to find such a compilation in the Thirteenth Depository.

Edited by Xader
Link to post
Share on other sites

Withoutout reading through that link, here's how I would break it down.

 

Saldaeans = Israelis

Sheinarans = Japanese

Andorans = English

Cairheinen = French

Aeil = Celts of some sort

Tairens = Spanish

Seanchan = Chinese

Murandians = tough one. Continental European fuedal culture, Irish accents.

 

I mostly can agree with those generalizations, except possibly for the Aiel. I always took their social structure to be more representative of Native Americans. Not looks, just the general tribal structure and the ways of honor and obligation. Or are these based mostly on looks?

 

But you left out Altarans, Domani, Ghealdhanans, Kandori, Arafelen, Illianers and Taraboners. Any ideas on those?

I have also thought them as Native Americans.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seanchan is almost certain a resemble of the Chinese Empire or Roman empire(east and west anyone?).

Personally Morland is like Germany in city states like but only loosely as a nation.

Andor is French.

Illian or Altara is Dutch because of the main city as canals and with the Rahad Ebou dar would be likely(bad part of Amsterdam *wink wink*).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Illian, with all the columns and stuff, that's got to be Greece/Rome. I always thought Tear was more like the Dutch because 1. Tear has no king, only a Protector (like the Prince of Orange), 2. Tear seems to have a significant naval presence, and 3. the Tairens wear clogs.

 

With their powdered heads and political intrigue, the Cairhieniens have always struck me as the French (with Andor being English).

 

Is it Murandy where everyone walks around mustachioed? And there's a weak central government? So that's Italy.

 

The Domani supposedly have an Indian accent, coppery skin and wear revealing clothing, so one would call that India...but Leane is hardly a name that makes me think, bollywood starlet.

 

The Taraboners, they identify the subject in a different clause from the verb, yes? And their sentences, they finish with a question, no? Well that second feature reminds me somewhat of Japanese.

 

And for the Aiel, I'm going to have to go with the Klingons.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 weeks later...

I'm Dutch and I believe that Ghealdan is more Dutch culture than Illian is. The sea is the only thing missing.

Illian is without any doubt Greek.

 

Arad Doman feels more Indian (as in India) to me.

 

Illian = sort of Dutch, IMO

 

=> The relative power of a king in interaction with the council, wich ressembles the great influence of Merchants.

=> The canals make it strongly look like medieval Brugge or Amsterdam.

=> The trading, the smuggling,..

=> being surrounded by other nations who frequently like to do a little bit of expeditioning in their territory,... ok, that sounds rather like Altara.

=> The accent has real Dutch influences

 

Maybe I can come up with more ideas, but got to go now, there's an Exam waiting for me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Dutchmen in here.

Bu

What many people forget is that you can hear by the name where people likely come from. By example. Mattin Stepeanos sounds very Greek to me. Or Mecandes kind of spanish. That Andor is English is obvious by hearing the name Arawn (nobel house), which is in fact i thought a real nobel house.

Morland (Murandy you call it) and Geldan (Ghealdan) are two nations i can't really find other nations in. I imagined Ghealdan as a kind of Swiss and Murandy as Germany or Poland. I don't believe that Illian is really Dutch. Someone said that the Netherlands were in war with Spain. We've been in war with many countries. If you want to define countries with which countries they wage war, it would be logical that the Netherlands (Illian) would take war with England (andor). By example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England . This Dutchman was a king of England, he was probably gay but a Dutch king of England. Netherlands once as one of the few countries conquered London. But to go back on the nations influence. I don't believe you can really define 1 country to 1 nation, maybe some parts. But the nations of the Wheel are the nations of the Wheel and our nations stay our nations.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i think randland is to earth as earth, far in the future after several cataclysms/world breakings and mega-diasporas, is to present day earth. i don't think we're meant to be able to make direct correlations, because everything has been deliberately deconstructed and reconstructed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Andorans = English

 

I think Andor is more likely to be like Britain more than just England. I can't remember where, but I'm quite certain I read somewhere that Two Rivers accents are similar to Irish? Caemlyn being the embodiment of Andor reminds me somewhat of the stereotype of London being outsiders' perception of the UK -- but moving away from Caemlyn (to, for example, the Two Rivers) we see communities entirely unlike it, as with Britain of the olde dayes. I'm talking a load of rubbish and have no evidence to back this up, but it's the impression I've always got from the books.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...