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Elan Tedronai

The ending

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To live you must die.

3 becomes one.

logain stepping over rand's body.

alivia helping rand to die.

 

It seems rand will 'die' in a process that seals the bore for good pre war of the power. Once the sealing is done, rand will retire in an annoymous fashion where logain takes over as the leader of male channellers.

 

We can't have the dragon reborn walking amongst men once everything is done and dusted. The whole world will mourn the death of the dragon reborn whereas rand will live his last few years in peace having done his job. i won't be suprised if he's no longer able to channel after the process of sealing.

 

oh and moridin will meet his final end at shayol ghul

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Three Becomes One.

 

Lews Therin Telamon

Rand al'Thor

Moridin/Ishamael

 

LTT and Rand are already joined, and it's made clear that Moridin's and Rand's souls are connected.

 

To live you must die.

 

With them joining together, the individuals "die" as they become one.

 

Alivia helping Rand to die, she probably somehow assists with them joining together. Maybe by wounding Moridin.

 

Logain stepping over Rand's body.. I could agree with that being symbolic of him taking lead with the male channelers. More than likely though it's going to be something really simple. Rand trips, and logain has to jump over him to keep from tripping himself. :tongue:

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Three Becomes One.

 

Lews Therin Telamon

Rand al'Thor

Moridin/Ishamael

 

LTT and Rand are already joined, and it's made clear that Moridin's and Rand's souls are connected.

 

To live you must die.

 

With them joining together, the individuals "die" as they become one.

 

Alivia helping Rand to die, she probably somehow assists with them joining together. Maybe by wounding Moridin.

 

Logain stepping over Rand's body.. I could agree with that being symbolic of him taking lead with the male channelers. More than likely though it's going to be something really simple. Rand trips, and logain has to jump over him to keep from tripping himself. :tongue:

Rand and LTT are the same person, the same soul. They aren't separate entities.

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To live you must die.

3 becomes one.

logain stepping over rand's body.

alivia helping rand to die.

 

It seems rand will 'die' in a process that seals the bore for good pre war of the power. Once the sealing is done, rand will retire in an annoymous fashion where logain takes over as the leader of male channellers.

 

We can't have the dragon reborn walking amongst men once everything is done and dusted. The whole world will mourn the death of the dragon reborn whereas rand will live his last few years in peace having done his job. i won't be suprised if he's no longer able to channel after the process of sealing.

 

oh and moridin will meet his final end at shayol ghul

 

As for Logain stepping over Rand' body it's actually

 

Encyclopedia Wot

Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet.

 

The paper puppet part could be key. Whose to say it's even Rand?

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Encyclopedia Wot

Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet.

 

If we look at the first part, this seems to be about The Black Tower ("..onto a black stone."). Could be about Logain assuming command there, though I do not know how that would fit in with the second part...

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Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet.

 

If we look at the first part, this seems to be about The Black Tower ("..onto a black stone."). Could be about Logain assuming command there, though I do not know how that would fit in with the second part...

 

 

I agree with you. I always assumed the body was Taim's body.

 

Wasn't it said that Taim resembled Rand in some way?

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Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet.

 

If we look at the first part, this seems to be about The Black Tower ("..onto a black stone."). Could be about Logain assuming command there, though I do not know how that would fit in with the second part...

 

 

I agree with you. I always assumed the body was Taim's body.

 

Wasn't it said that Taim resembled Rand in some way?

 

I believe it to either be Taim or Demandred, Im not saying Taim is Demandred mind, i know they aren't even without being told by RJ. Just the body is one or the other.

Edited by rand4747

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See I had the thought that "To live you must die" was a play on how things worked in the pattern/turning of the wheel.

 

As to say a reader can sort of be led to believe that the Dragon/Dragon Reborn has to die to fulfill their celestial role(so to speak) - Blood on the rocks, that sort of deal. That being said, Birgitte explains how when a hero dies they're stashed in TAR until being reborn.

 

So, as the Dragon Reborn, Rand very much has to die - which isn't a definite sure-fire it's going to happen that's how it works, but let's say he has to die for funzies.

 

How do you win TG and live. To live you must die. Rand dies, and with my own assumption that he's tied to the pattern like a hero of the horn is, he sticks around in TAR, and eventually gets reborn, to live. But, he hasto die to fulfill the purpose of the Dragon/Dragon Reborn in order to reseal the bore/save creation from the Dark One.

 

Thereby, in order for Rand to live, he must die. Otherwise the Dark One destroys the pattern, and nobody lives or is reborn, etc.

 

I kind of had the impression after Veins of Gold that this might be the possibility, with the whole 'what's the point' part, and the point that I took away from it was that yeah, it sucks that you have to die, and go through hardship & sacrifice, but because of that you get to live again, be reborn and live/love/laugh, or whatever floats your boat...

 

...Those Finns, they'll get after you huh?

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I always assumed that the three would become one has something to do with callandor - aka, Rand + Nyn + (Alivia or Moraine or Avi).

I suppose it could be Rand, Perrin and Mat being the 3 taveren and all.... but I find the callandor one a little more in tune with this professed statement.

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I always thought the paper-Rand was referring to how Rand is nominally in charge of the BT, but really his power is empty, and so Logain will take real power over the BT to replace Rand's fake power.

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I always assumed that the three would become one has something to do with callandor - aka, Rand + Nyn + (Alivia or Moraine or Avi).

I suppose it could be Rand, Perrin and Mat being the 3 taveren and all.... but I find the callandor one a little more in tune with this professed statement.

 

 

one thing is for sure. callandor will be used at the last battle. two logain will take over from rand as leader of male channellers. and three rand will live his final days in a barn of some sort either with one or all three wifeys

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Right, the Queen of Andor is going to live in a barn.

 

I could see the, "Rand will enjoy a well-earned retirement" thing, but not the obscurity thing.

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I hate to say it (because I am not a fan of the theory) but I think the body-swap will take place. Why? One of Avendiah's sons is dark, like a wetlander.

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Encyclopedia Wot

Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like a paper puppet.

 

If we look at the first part, this seems to be about The Black Tower ("..onto a black stone."). Could be about Logain assuming command there, though I do not know how that would fit in with the second part...

 

The paper puppet is a clear reference to Rand as the leader in the black tower. He is a "paper figurehead". "Ashaman rolling ring of earth and fire! Rand al'Thor the king of the world!" etc etc and then they go back to the BT and follow Taims orders as if they were from the dragon himself.

 

other than that, yeah I agree

 

I always thought the paper-Rand was referring to how Rand is nominally in charge of the BT, but really his power is empty, and so Logain will take real power over the BT to replace Rand's fake power.

 

YES. sorry, didnt see this

Edited by Haran

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I hate to say it (because I am not a fan of the theory) but I think the body-swap will take place. Why? One of Avendiah's sons is dark, like a wetlander.

 

Well, Rand's mother was a wetlander, so that could be the source of the darkness. Now, how dark she might have been, I don't know.

 

As for the body-swap theory, I don't like it either (it just seems . . . deus ex machina-ish, and contrived). So, Jordan could have decided to do it, I really couldn't say.

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Is it possible the three becoming one is are the three powers, Saidin,Saidar and the true power. You have to combine them all to seal the dark ones prison? No real evidence of this other than Min keeps saying there is a flaw in Callandor and something besides women is needed.

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To live you must die.

3 becomes one.

logain stepping over rand's body.

alivia helping rand to die.

 

It seems rand will 'die' in a process that seals the bore for good pre war of the power. Once the sealing is done, rand will retire in an annoymous fashion where logain takes over as the leader of male channellers.

 

We can't have the dragon reborn walking amongst men once everything is done and dusted. The whole world will mourn the death of the dragon reborn whereas rand will live his last few years in peace having done his job. i won't be suprised if he's no longer able to channel after the process of sealing.

 

oh and moridin will meet his final end at shayol ghul

 

 

I do think you are right about Rand retiring to an anonymous life in the countryside/alternate dimension/heaven/whatever at some point, which would explain why he isn't around 20 years in the future to during Avi's Rhu Vision. Note that his kids say that he left them, not that he his dead.

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What concerned me as I read this book (particularly the Avi/glass column portion) is the possibility that Rand neither lives nor dies. I realize that Avienda was not sure she couldn't change the future that she saw, but what happens if he leaves? We don't know a whole lot about the Book of Translation and what happens if the Ogier do open it, but we can infer that they must go somewhere. Loial's mother Covril states that they must leave for a time to be able to come back after the human race forgets about them.

Is the Book of Translation something seperate from the Portal Stones? Or is it a method for translating them to transport the Ogier to another world for a time to avoid the Last Battle? Can it be avoided in another world?

 

I seem to remember Verin saying that the Dark One was a constant in all worlds, like TAR and the Creator, but one of the forsaken saying the the LB's effect could be different in different worlds and that the main fight would take place in this one. Graendal even thinks briefly of traveling to another world through a portal stone to avoid Moridin after her last failure.

 

What if Rand fights the last battle, then leaves? I do not believe that Elayne or Avienda would go with him, but that Min certainly would. Elayne and Avienda have eachother and their commitments to their people and their children to keep them from going, but Min does not. Min's potential offspring were conspicuously missing from Avienda's vision. It would a simple solution for Avienda to return from her vision quest to, as she says, "take her piece of Rand's heart" and wind up pregnant in the days before the LB.

 

It could be similar to the ending of the Lord of the Rings where at the end everybody goes west to the Undying Lands. Rand and Min leave, maybe even Elayne and Avienda go later. We can't be sure that it will really happen, as it was a vision. But in practice, haven't we all had some trouble imagining a world in which the hero of the ages remains to rule? Is Rand even that kind of guy? How could he avoid all the attention seekers and the drama? How will the girls practically split him up and marry him? Min questions which ONE of them will actually marry him in one of her POVs, to me that means that she has seen or inferred that one of them actually will. Clearly it must be her, as Elayne and Avienda could neither marry him alone. Min is not their first sister and doesn't understand their bond, so she would not know that it effectivly rules them out.

 

It will sort of frustrate me if that is how it ends, it will be just a little too elegant. But honestly, the fact of it ending will be difficult no matter how it's meant to end.

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Oh rand will live in the end. Retirement in peace since he has earned it. people seem to think he will die and that is it, but rest be assured rand will probably die for good by old age or something. the question is which of his three wives stays with him. i reckon min will be his sole wife with the other two will be doing their own stuff.

 

 

another thing that points to rand living is naeblis involvement. moridin himself will ensure rand lives. min's viewing of two people merging and one dying has confirmed the death of moridin. he is linked to rand and that link will prove to be his undoing. I never did like the tosser anyway. serves him right for helping rand against sammael.

Edited by Elan Tedronai

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Oh rand will live in the end. Retirement in peace since he has earned it. people seem to think he will die and that is it, but rest be assured rand will probably die for good by old age or something. the question is which of his three wives stays with him. i reckon min will be his sole wife with the other two will be doing their own stuff.

 

 

another thing that points to rand living is naeblis involvement. moridin himself will ensure rand lives. min's viewing of two people merging and one dying has confirmed the death of moridin. he is linked to rand and that link will prove to be his undoing. I never did like the tosser anyway. serves him right for helping rand against sammael.

 

 

This is an idea that just came to me. Haven't we seen prophecies/visions concerning Rand getting blinded and being a begger? Maybe Rand will be blinded and burned out (physically and in terms of the One Power) by the Last Battle, and will end his days wandering the world as a blind begger, with nothing left but a "memory of light." Consider the fate of Paul Atreides.

 

I think this theory is kind of out there. I think a pleasant retirement to Av'alon'Val'inor is more likely. But it would be an intersting possibility.

Edited by Andrew A

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I hate to say it (because I am not a fan of the theory) but I think the body-swap will take place. Why? One of Avendiah's sons is dark, like a wetlander.

Rands mother was a wetlander. His spawn could go either way.

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