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raolan

Most annoying/stupid characters

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I don't know about anyone else, but for stupidity I think Elaida deserves the gold medal.

I'm currently re-reading A Crown of Swords. Whilst reading the prologue, I noticed Elaida thinking 'Alviarin really is a fool.' right after telling Alviarin to send fifty sisters to stop the Black Tower and its '2 or 3' male channelers, and believing that the rebel Aes Sedai only have 3000 troops in their army, an army being lead by a Gareth Bryne, one of the Great Captains. There had been even more stupidity involving her, such as how she wants a palace that has a spire taller than the White Tower. I understand making her an idiot so that the reader would dislike her, but it sure feels like RJ did that and then added twice as much.

 

As for annoying characters, I personally would say Elayne, followed by Egwene, followed by Nynaeve (until she starts helping Rand).

In book six, Mat is risking his own life to keep Elayne safe. And what does she do? During the entire trip to Ebou Dar her and all the others keep channeling at him despite him saying no, keep harassing him, keep abusing him. When Mat saved them in Tear, even then she was ungrateful. From Elayne, Egwene, and Nynaeve, throughout the entire series they think of Mat in ways like this 'I hope he doesn't cause too much trouble.' or 'I hope Elayne and Nynaeve will keep Mat from causing problems,' even after it was those three who had caused him problems for the hundredth time and he had saved them over and over.

 

So if I had to pick the top three characters I hate, it would be Elayne, followed by Elaida, followed by Egwene.

 

So did RJ just have something against women with names beginning with 'E'?

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Cadsuane, Elayne, Gawyn, Egwene, Elaida are my top 5. In that order. I just can't stand Cadsuane.

 

The way she keeps calling Rand, "al'Thor boy", added to her meddlesome nature and the fact that she hasn't done anything (at least onscreen and IMO) to grant her the title of "legendary" Aes Sedai, added to the fact that she screwed up big time with the male adam, make her the most annoying and stupid of all for my taste. By far and large.

 

Nynaeve was pretty bad too, till she started helping Rand, I agree. Still, reading about her wanting to control Rand and thinking she knows better than him, when she's been more lucky than good so far, is still pretty annoying.

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Elaida and Gawyn.

For a while, I was annoyed with Faile. Until I remembered that she is around 15-16 when she meets Perrin. And frankly, most tenagers I meet IRL are far more annoying than Faile could even dream of being.

That includes you, Luckersbiggrin.gif

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The only main female characters I actually like in WoT are Moiraine (above all) and Min. You can probably add Aviendha to that because she's a total fruit loop. She doesn't have a care in the world about Rand seeing her naked, then one time she's so afraid of it that she somehow creates a gateway to Seanchan and almost freezes to death.

 

I'm trying to think of what male character I like the least... but if you exclude all the nobles and the Forsaken (who are all total pushovers) I can't think of any...

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I always did like Min too. I wasn't so much annoyed with Faile, as just with that whole plit line being so dragged out. I liked her in the beginning. I think above all we need to see more Bela. She's been highly neglected for a bit. :biggrin:

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The most annoying female character is Elayne. I can't put a finger on why, but I would find an excuse to leave the room every time she came in if I knew someone like her IRL.

 

I really was never that annoyed with Faile, or even Cadsuane. Cadsuane is really just a crotchedy old woman, and that doesn't bug me (we all have that irrascible old grandmother or grandfather).

 

Perrin's "whoa is me" attitude for the last few books has been really annoying (he was fantastic up through tSR). Gawyn has become kind of a petulent, immature kid, too. That is a shame, since I really liked his character up-until recently.

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Elayne, for various reasons. For one, her obsession with hierarchy and dominating other human beings is pathological - even the Forsaken aren't that concerned about power. Secondly, her conduct and attitude towards Mat, for example, laughing at him and mocking him after he was raped by Tylin, and her general ungratefulness and lack of human decency. Thirdly her general recklessness and irresponsibility, as well as lack of remorse for her stupid actions, actions that she was told again and again that were bad ideas before she did them.

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ELANYE!! I cannot stand her character! She is a worthless piece of ---- and a fricken lunatic to boot! I will admit though that I liked her better in Towers of Midnight. So perhaps... I can't believe I am saying this... Perhaps she is not beyond redemption. But until I see it, for who I believe to be the most retarded and annoying character in Wheel of Time is Elayne. For other stupid people it would have to be... Can I just name just about every character except Mat? All of them have retard moments (Mat does too but I like his character to much to put him on the list). For annoying... Perrin when Faile is captured. Egwene when she is spouting her "The-White-Tower-is-the-most-important-and-powerful-force-on-this-planet-oh-by-the-way-Rand-sucks-I-am-the-Amyrlin-the-Dragon-Reborn-must-serve-me-because-I-know-better-then-all-I-am-a-hormonal-teenager-fresh-out-of-my-tiny-town-therefor-I-have-more-wisdom-then-you-too!". Most of the sea folk... Tylin(sp?)... Just about anyone in WoT that thinks that Elayne is a great and wonderful Queen. That is about it. There are many others but it would take too long to say it all.

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I am a bit confused why some of you keep reading the series, if you hate most characters so much. ;)

 

I hate to break the party line, but I really like Elayne.

 

BTW, it's plain ridiculous to list her as the most stupid in a series where the likes of Elaida, Sevanna, Gawyn and most of the Forsaken exist. Hate Elayne as much as you want, but have a little objectivity.

 

For one, her obsession with hierarchy and dominating other human beings is pathological - even the Forsaken aren't that concerned about power.

What? Are you sure you're talking about the same Elayne who had no trouble leaving Nynaeve, the countrywoman from the back end of nowhere, in charge, for most of their travels together? Who during the course of her travels struck quickly friendships with people like Aviendha or Egeanin, who at the time were far below her in the Randland social order? Or who offered Dyelin the chance to take over the Lion Throne for the good of her country?

 

Anyway, most stupid character is clearly Elaida. She's in a league of her own.

 

Most annoying of the main ones - Egwene. By some distance.

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I am a bit confused why some of you keep reading the series, if you hate most characters so much. ;)

 

Well, I certainly can't speak for any one else here, but I'm into this series because of the story and a handful of characters I do like or find interesting. The fact that I, for one, happen to dislike many more characters than I like (which includes me in this category) isn't enough to offset my enjoyment of the main plot and those characters in the very least. There is something known as freedom of choice. It is my right to choose what I may/may not read and why, regardless of how strange or confusing others may find my reasons to do so.

 

I hate to break the party line, but I really like Elayne.

 

BTW, it's plain ridiculous to list her as the most stupid in a series where the likes of Elaida, Sevanna, Gawyn and most of the Forsaken exist. Hate Elayne as much as you want, but have a little objectivity.

 

Um...dunno if you've noticed this, DS, but except for Gawyn, the other characters you mentioned are not supposed to be heroes. They were written to be disliked by most readers, actually.

 

Alas, if it's stupidity we're talking about, there's quite a few of the "good guys" aside from Gawyn (and in much more important roles than those of Sevannah or even Elaida), who are extremely stupid.

 

Concerning Elayne, where there's smoke, there's a fire, as they say. You may like her all you want, but that doesn't make her any better in most people's eyes, I assure you. I may be a bit confused why someone would like this character, but we all have different preferences and taste, so like the girl all you want ;)

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If the question was "who is the most stupid among the main characters only", then I wouldn't have objected much to people bringing up Elayne. I wouldn't agree, but it's debatable.

 

But the thread is all characters in WoT, and the way I see it, there's just no way anyone can convince me that Elayne is in the same league as Miss Idiocy Elaida ("Hey, let's build myself a huge palace on the eve of the Last Battle"), or "I swore to kill the only hope of the Light because of a rumor" Gawyn.

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If the question was "who is the most stupid among the main characters only", then I wouldn't have objected much to people bringing up Elayne. I wouldn't agree, but it's debatable.

 

But the thread is all characters in WoT, and the way I see it, there's just no way anyone can convince me that Elayne is in the same league as Miss Idiocy Elaida ("Hey, let's build myself a huge palace on the eve of the Last Battle"), or "I swore to kill the only hope of the Light because of a rumor" Gawyn.

 

Indeed, the title doesn't exclude any characters and you said it, my friend, the way you see it is that Elayne is not as stupid as Elaida or even her own brother. In my case, the worst of the lot is not even Elayne. I rated her second on my personal list, behind Cadsuane (to me, the worst of the lot by far and wide). So Elayne's not even the worst of the lot to me.

 

The reason why I said that characters such as Elaida and Sevannah and the Forsaken, for instance, may be worse is because they are antagonists; they are supposed to be much more unlikable than the heroes. Not because I feel that this is only about main, secondary or minor characters, antagonists or protagonists.

 

My decision on Elayne is not based on stupidity alone, but rather a combination of both, stupidity and annoyance, based on the title, precisely. So, while I agree that Elaida is way stupider than Elayne, it's the annoyance factor that makes Elayne worse in my book. Because people are supposed to dislike Elaida and Elayne not so much. I'm not trying to convince anyone of agreeing with me on this. That's just how I feel about her.

Edited by Darth Krewl

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I would say ultimately Egwene is both dumber and MORE power hungry than Elayne. The entire attitude of believing Rand should be showing HER respect (just like Elaida did)is one of AMAZING arrogance that surpasses anything Elayne does. Especially given that Elayne was actually brought up for this her whole life. Egwene has been away form home exactly as long as Rand has, and has accomplished less. In 200 years, her job will be taken by soemone else. Fifty years later, by soemone else. Fifty years later by someone else.

 

There is ONE Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies say nothing about the White Tower saving the world from the Dark One. Use some situational awareness.

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Elayne - pretentious, rash, foolish and hateful. Many characters make half-baked plans to tackle the Shadow, but Elayne seems to go one step further by making no plans. She just keeps putting herself in extremely dangerous situations in the very arrogant belief that she can't lose / be wrong, then causes pain and deaths as others end up having to rescue her. And then she does it all over again. She is also very biased in her treatment of others (hates Galad's guts for no reason, walks all over Mat, etc). Not to mention creepy with her past crush on grandfatherly Thom.

 

Gawyn - pretentious, rash, foolish and hateful. Must run in the family! He is not as "in your face" as his sister, but he is very self-righteous and has a knack for making humongous mistakes. I'm sure Gawyn is a nice guy and all, but he has incredibly poor judgment. It's also sickening to watch him follow Elayne then Egwene around as if he was nothing but a little needy puppy dog. Gawyn lacks a backbone. And needs a life.

 

Cadsuane and the Athan Miere - arrogant. We had plenty of powerful, arrogant characters and orders in Randland already. Adding Cads and the AM, who are even MORE arrogant, just annoyed the hell out of me. Their treatment of others is very frustrating.

 

Elaida - well, at least she's supposed to be hated as she's one of the baddies. But boy, is the woman stupid, self-centered and blind!

 

Lews Therin Telamon - whine whine whine. I understand that to a degree considering how his life ended, but it gets wearying. Especially as when not whining about Ilyena, he's whistling to himself perving on pretty girls around Rand. Pick a side mate. I don't exactly hate him as (thankfully) we don't see too much of him, but he does annoy me.

 

Anyway, nothing original there, those characters seem to generate a lot of hate. I do however like Egwene - I don't agree with everything she thinks or does, but she's got good things going for her as well and has definitely scored major badass points lately.

Edited by Toothbrush

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The Black Ajah. (I mean sure we want them to lose, but omg!)

 

How can a group of people who weave the one power be so idiotic in trying to control other people? Just assassinate a few leaders, then watch the madness ensue! It's not that hard! Or kill the king and Panarch of Tarabon, burn down a few key buildings and areas of the city, and it would be in more chaos than Almath Plain!

 

The Forsaken, holy crap! Just give your minions compulsion to use on your enemies for you! If you had done this, your minions in the black ajah could have done their tasks much more efficiently. Quit worrying about being betrayed every 5 seconds! If you guys didn't have this constant worry you could have taken over the world ten times over. Don't any of them realize that giving your minions some power makes them MORE loyal to you in the long run, and showing that you trust them makes them loyal as well. Did they not have basic leadership classes in the Age of Legends? Half of them are just begging to be killed by Rand, or Moiraine, or Egwyne. I mean, killing your enemies and manipulating their replacement, and maybe killing them too, is much more effective than sitting their scheming for 5 books...

 

Graendal is forgiven only because her political skills are genius...

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Rand. Sometimes he can be quite clever, but other times he can be such a dumbass, and the beauty of it is that half of the time his reasoning is understandable until you look at it closely.

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Rand. Sometimes he can be quite clever, but other times he can be such a dumbass, and the beauty of it is that half of the time his reasoning is understandable until you look at it closely.

 

Wait a minute, not sure I'm getting you here...

 

Are you calling Rand the most annoying or stupidest character in the series? Or, both?

 

Because if you consider him the most annoying (though the guy's been gradually losing his mind, which would sorta justify many of his antics, IMO) then that's a matter of personal preference and I respect that, of course. Though I strongly disagree because I can think of 15-20 characters in WoT who are far more annoying than Rand al'Thor.

 

Then again, if you're calling him the stupidest, then man! Is the light in trouble or what? I mean, since they'd be led by the stupidest character in the series, I'd have to say that the Light is in deep, deep sh*t now.

 

And if it's both, well, all of the above applies.

 

 

I would say ultimately Egwene is both dumber and MORE power hungry than Elayne. The entire attitude of believing Rand should be showing HER respect (just like Elaida did)is one of AMAZING arrogance that surpasses anything Elayne does. Especially given that Elayne was actually brought up for this her whole life. Egwene has been away form home exactly as long as Rand has, and has accomplished less. In 200 years, her job will be taken by soemone else. Fifty years later, by soemone else. Fifty years later by someone else.

 

There is ONE Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies say nothing about the White Tower saving the world from the Dark One. Use some situational awareness.

 

Exactly, exactly, exactly!

 

So exciting to see I'm not the only one who's seen this. I was beginning to think that I might have missed some entry on the Karaethon Cycle where it read that the Dragon Reborn would be a puppet handled by the White Tower or something along those lines.

 

Because every single damned Aes Sedai (from Moiraine to Elayne) has tried to control and manipulate Rand, from the very beginning. The three Amyrlins, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Cadsuane, etc.

 

Hmm...come think of it, I'd have to change my opinion and say that the Aes Sedai of the Third Age, as a whole, are the most annoying/stupid characters in this series.

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I know most people would frown at me for saying these things, but I kinda like Elayne.

 

Shure, she is a bit of an arrogant snooty kid at times whos expecting everything to be done according to her wishes...

But dosent that kinda come with being the heir to Andor? I mean, looking at how a typical European medival princess would act in her situation... Its not absurd... Of course its a fictional person in a fictive setting, and as such its very different from "real life" for the sake of writeing a good story... But it adds a layer of realism to her personallity... So to speak.

... Still, I can understand the fustration about her, I know it fairly well when shes around Mat.

 

About Rand, he's actually quite possibly my favorite char... Not so much because he is the one the great "hero" of the story, but because he is so derailed... I dont get fustrated with him, if anything I pity him... The way he constantly struggles with his sanity, his very continued existance, combined with the giant external preassure resting on his shoulders. Cant help but feel for him when there aint anybody he can relate to, and he needs to manipulate even his friends for the sake of reaching his goals.

 

And Elaida you say?

 

Yes... Shes a bastard.

She needs to die... In a fire preferably... Balefire is too nice... And served to trollocs... With onions.

 

... I dont like Elaida.

Edited by Sarner

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Rand. Sometimes he can be quite clever, but other times he can be such a dumbass, and the beauty of it is that half of the time his reasoning is understandable until you look at it closely.

 

Wait a minute, not sure I'm getting you here...

 

Are you calling Rand the most annoying or stupidest character in the series? Or, both?

 

Because if you consider him the most annoying (though the guy's been gradually losing his mind, which would sorta justify many of his antics, IMO) then that's a matter of personal preference and I respect that, of course. Though I strongly disagree because I can think of 15-20 characters in WoT who are far more annoying than Rand al'Thor.

 

Then again, if you're calling him the stupidest, then man! Is the light in trouble or what? I mean, since they'd be led by the stupidest character in the series, I'd have to say that the Light is in deep, deep sh*t now.

 

And if it's both, well, all of the above applies.

 

No Im not saying he is annoying, he is my favorite character by a long way! Im saying he is one of the stupidest. Look at how he "proves" to himself that Taim is Taim in Lord of Chaos at the beginning, and tell me you do not agree. And yes, the Light has been in a lot of trouble because of it, because of the Darkfriend Ashaman situation

Edited by Drekka Mort

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No Im not saying he is annoying, he is my favorite character by a long way! Im saying he is one of the stupidest. Look at how he "proves" to himself that Taim is Taim in Lord of Chaos at the beginning, and tell me you do not agree. And yes, the Light has been in a lot of trouble because of it, because of the Darkfriend Ashaman situation

 

Under normal circumstances, I'd definitely agree with you 100%. But, in Rand's case, we know he's been losing it, almost since the beginning of the series, so IMO, you'd have to make an exception in his case. Y'know, like a "hey, I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid" kinda free pass?

 

'cause, IMO, that's what's going on with Rand. He is crazy and, while many of his decisions (especially concerning Taim and the Black Tower, I agree) may strike us as unorthodox or just plain stupid, that's 'cause those are the decisions of a sick mind, not a stupid one. At least he does have this advantage over say, Egwene, Elayne and many others, IMO.

Edited by Darth Krewl

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No Im not saying he is annoying, he is my favorite character by a long way! Im saying he is one of the stupidest. Look at how he "proves" to himself that Taim is Taim in Lord of Chaos at the beginning, and tell me you do not agree. And yes, the Light has been in a lot of trouble because of it, because of the Darkfriend Ashaman situation

 

Under normal circumstances, I'd definitely agree with you 100%. But, in Rand's case, we know he's been losing it, almost since the beginning of the series, so IMO, you'd have to make an exception in his case. Y'know, like a "hey, I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid" kinda free pass?

 

'cause, IMO, that's what's going on with Rand. He is crazy and, while many of his decisions (especially concerning Taim and the Black Tower, I agree) may strike us as unorthodox or just plain stupid, that's 'cause those are the decisions of a sick mind, not a stupid one. At least he does have this advantage over say, Egwene, Elayne and many others, IMO.

 

 

Look at it like this.

 

Bashere: You're Taim?

Taim: Yes

Rand: Prove it, channel for me

Taim: *channels*

Rand: Thats enough for me, screw Basheres doubts. You are Taim, not some randomer claiming to be Taim, not a Forsaken in disguise, even though all the Forsaken Ive met so far channel and use disguises and a guy sent to headhunt you doesnt know you. Hey, handy thing you can test for the ability to channel, very odd that you figured that out after meeting only five others that can channel. But hey, you can channel, and Ive heard of you before, so you MUST be Taim. So watch out for the rest of these recruits showing the sort of knowledge I have from my past lives, or the unrealistic amount of knowledge you pulled out of your ass. They might be Forsaken!

 

Thats basically what happened when Taim came into it. Rands insanity doesnt impair his judgement on this, its his own stupidity. Whether or not Taim is Taim doesnt matter; how Rand proves it to himself does. He might as well have said "Hey Taim, do you know the Forsakens secret handshake?" and when Taim says "Duh, of course" Rand then says "Okay great, tell me if anyone else here knows it, they must be Forsaken."

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Rand has had plenty of really stupid moments. I like him, but that's a fact. Leaving the Black Tower in total control of a guy he met 5 minutes before and not doing anything for so long to check up on him despite the numerous clues he had that something fishy is going on, is probably the most blatant one.

 

Not having any Maidens or friendly channellers(a dozen Wise Ones, for example, he had hundreds of those available) protecting him when meeting the Tower Aes Sedai envoys in LoC is another totally stupid act by him.

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Look at it like this.

 

Bashere: You're Taim?

Taim: Yes

Rand: Prove it, channel for me

Taim: *channels*

Rand: Thats enough for me, screw Basheres doubts. You are Taim, not some randomer claiming to be Taim, not a Forsaken in disguise, even though all the Forsaken Ive met so far channel and use disguises and a guy sent to headhunt you doesnt know you. Hey, handy thing you can test for the ability to channel, very odd that you figured that out after meeting only five others that can channel. But hey, you can channel, and Ive heard of you before, so you MUST be Taim. So watch out for the rest of these recruits showing the sort of knowledge I have from my past lives, or the unrealistic amount of knowledge you pulled out of your ass. They might be Forsaken!

 

Thats basically what happened when Taim came into it. Rands insanity doesnt impair his judgement on this, its his own stupidity. Whether or not Taim is Taim doesnt matter; how Rand proves it to himself does. He might as well have said "Hey Taim, do you know the Forsakens secret handshake?" and when Taim says "Duh, of course" Rand then says "Okay great, tell me if anyone else here knows it, they must be Forsaken."

 

Rand has had plenty of really stupid moments. I like him, but that's a fact. Leaving the Black Tower in total control of a guy he met 5 minutes before and not doing anything for so long to check up on him despite the numerous clues he had that something fishy is going on, is probably the most blatant one.

 

Not having any Maidens or friendly channellers(a dozen Wise Ones, for example, he had hundreds of those available) protecting him when meeting the Tower Aes Sedai envoys in LoC is another totally stupid act by him.

 

lol...you both have a point, I admit it.

 

How long has Logain been screaming at Rand's ears that something fishy is happening at the Black Tower and that Taim is as crooked as his Saldaean nose, as David says? And yet, Rand does nothing against this.

 

Now, I'm sure this is not a plot hole because it's just too big to miss, of course, and it makes no sense whatsoever...unless Rand's been on Taim's case since the very beginning and has some nasty surprise in store for him.

 

This is the only way that I would understand Rand's clumsy, stupid attitude concerning Taim and his minions. Not justifying it (personally, I'd have to see Rand pull some very clever stunt to make this believable) but I can't find any other explanation for this, other than sheer stupidity, yep.

 

Still, in both cases, I must say that Rand doesn't strike me as the stupidest character, though any actions of his that could be considered stupid have to be amongst the biggest stupidities committed by anyone in the series...crazy or not.

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I have to say that I do think that Rand's dealings with Taim and the Black Tower are pretty stupid, and annoying. The Forsaken have taken hold of many of the power centres in Randland through subterfuge, and you've dealt with a few already, and you don't even suspect that there may be something fishy going on with Taim? The age of Taim, his knowledge, his skill in the one power, his lack of madness, his attitude and his mannerisms don't even pique his curiosity! He's usually paranoid and suspicious about every one else's motivitations, but lax when it comes to this super powerful channeller and his destructive weapons? He just uncritically hands over so much power and responsibility to Taim and leaves him to his own devices! Either the character of Rand is incredibly naive in this regard, or is just a plot convenience by Jordan.

Edited by Plato's Cave

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Id put it down to Rands naiveness. Another example from the same bit, Taims introduction. When Taim tests Damer Flynn for the ability to channel, we already knew that Flynn was a learner because of his age; if Flynn was a sparker he would have known he could channel already. But that hadnt been spelt out for Rand like it had for us with the RJ interview. Basically, Taim does the test and Rand feels the resonance, but Taim waits a minute before finishing the test. Now it seems plain to me that if Flynn was a sparker-which we know he isnt, because of his age-then something else would have happened in that extra minute after the small resonance. But Rand doesnt know about learners or sparkers like we do, like Taim clearly does. So Rand and his naive, arrogant state of existence assumes he felt the resonance before Taim, and comes to the conclusion that he is better than Taim in that regard. A reasonable assumption if you dont have a clue, but we as readers know more, and Rand by LoC assumes he knows more than most other Third Agers.

 

I dont think Rands ignorance is a plot convenience, I think its a great part of the series. I LOVE how Rands lack of knowledge hinders him, it is realistic. But that first thing where he "proves" Taim is Taim, there is no excuse for that one. I never thought of Rand having Wise Ones with him to meet Aes Sedai though, thats a good one.

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