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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Perrin's ability to fight.


EvilSocrates
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If you have to fight somehow whom you absolutely cannot let hit you in any way or you will be destroyed, you may have to fight around that fact. ... people with any sense of self preservation have to dodge (because they cannot realistically block without being shattered) ... If literally every attack he makes is a hard to dodge killing blow, then he might just overwhelm people who are unwilling to trade deaths with him.

This is probably the best account of his style I've read yet.

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It is possible to block or rather deflect blows with an axe. I don't remember this clearly, but I have a vague memory of Perrin fighting very defensively against a Myrddraal early in tDR or tGH? Didn't their camp get attacked about when Rand decided to go off alone? IIRC he was afraid the Fade would tire him and then kill him since defending with the axe required him to swing the weapon constantly, so he had to go for the kill.

 

I could have made all this up in my head, of course...

 

 

Fighting axes have long handles, which you can use like a quarterstaff to block attacks. You can't do it for long, because the weapon is designed as a purely offensive weapon.

Perrin's axe is rather short i.e. it fits in a large leather loop on his belt and also it wieghs less than his smithing hammer.

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I chalk it up to him being an unconventional fighter, a berserker, and a wolfbrother.

 

The wolfbrother makes him an uncoventional fighter since he has learned how wolves kill and subconsciously he uses that. Plus throw in his berserker fighitng skills, extreme strength, and swinging either the hammer or axe and it is very hard to block. the only reason we havent seen perrin die is that no enemy so far has really managed to evade his attacks, if someone simply ducked or backed far enough away perrin would be thrown off balance and would be easy to kill (kind of like byar trying to hit lan with the axe in eotw). But blocking does not work with perrin since his strength is enoguh to shatter any spear, and knock a person off balance if blocked with steel

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I'm reasonably confident Perrin is tallish, actually. But I'm not sure.

 

RJ said he's about 6'2".

 

Perrin's axe is rather short i.e. it fits in a large leather loop on his belt and also it wieghs less than his smithing hammer.

 

I'm pretty sure Perrins axe had a longish haft. At least I've never seen it described as having a short one.

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It is possible to block or rather deflect blows with an axe. I don't remember this clearly, but I have a vague memory of Perrin fighting very defensively against a Myrddraal early in tDR or tGH? Didn't their camp get attacked about when Rand decided to go off alone? IIRC he was afraid the Fade would tire him and then kill him since defending with the axe required him to swing the weapon constantly, so he had to go for the kill.

 

I could have made all this up in my head, of course...

 

 

Fighting axes have long handles, which you can use like a quarterstaff to block attacks. You can't do it for long, because the weapon is designed as a purely offensive weapon.

Perrin's axe is rather short i.e. it fits in a large leather loop on his belt and also it wieghs less than his smithing hammer.

 

 

I'm pretty sure it was described as having a long handle. I'll have to go look up the description. Also, it having a long handle doesn't preclude it from still being lighter than his hammer.

 

 

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It is possible to block or rather deflect blows with an axe. I don't remember this clearly, but I have a vague memory of Perrin fighting very defensively against a Myrddraal early in tDR or tGH? Didn't their camp get attacked about when Rand decided to go off alone? IIRC he was afraid the Fade would tire him and then kill him since defending with the axe required him to swing the weapon constantly, so he had to go for the kill.

 

I could have made all this up in my head, of course...

 

 

Fighting axes have long handles, which you can use like a quarterstaff to block attacks. You can't do it for long, because the weapon is designed as a purely offensive weapon.

Perrin's axe is rather short i.e. it fits in a large leather loop on his belt and also it wieghs less than his smithing hammer.

 

I'm pretty sure it was described as having a long handle. I'll have to go look up the description. Also, it having a long handle doesn't preclude it from still being lighter than his hammer.

 

The axe is described as having a "thick haft". Later on in TEOTW we get a description of the length of the haft "The ashwood haft was as long as his arm, and smooth and cool to the touch." Give that Perrin is supposed to have been about 6'2" that would make his arm length somewhere between 30 and 36 inches. That gives plenty of length on the haft for blocking.

 

Also in TEOTW Lan shows Perrin how to fight with the axe, including parrying "He showed Perrin a bit of how to use the great-bladed axe . . .Seetting the big aprenctice blacksmith to a series of exercises, block, parry, and strike . . ."

 

 

Edited by smileyman
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Okay, this is too fun not to get into.

 

Let's start with basics, even though some is already gone over.

-Speed. Perrin is pretty quick. Now, we're never explicitly told this, but we have a ton of suggestions of it. It's probably greatly enhanced by his wolf nature, but Perrin is fast. Even in EOTW he was quick enough to get the drop on two trained Whitecloaks who knew he was there, and who were already armed, if I recall correctly. He has only improved form there.

-Basic technique. Given Perrin's personality, he practiced what Lan taught him quite a bit. It's in his nature. He repeats things methodically over and over until he masters them. So given his personality and who taught him, I would wager strongly that his general technique is rock solid.

-Strength. Obviously, he is strong as all freakin get out. Possibly the strongest physical human in the series.

-Coordination. Raised in the Two Rivers, where excellent shooting is an average thing. Also, years and years as a blacksmith's apprentice. His hand eye coordination is extremely good. Probably better than 9/10 non-Aeil fighters, and probably as good or better than a bunch of Aeil, as well. I'd be willing to bet the wolf nature improves this as well, but it was already excellent.

-Intangibles...Fear. He has none. On the battlefield, Aeil are muttering about the crazy guy who clearly wants to wake form the dream yet never does, then falling into fits of giggles while none of the Wetlanders get their humor (I LOVE AEIL HUMOR!!!!)...Determination. No one matches his. It's often the deciding factor in a fight of half-inch spaces and quarter second actions...Commitment. He's not stopping until it's over.

 

So overall, I think the best analysis is this. He's faster than average, stronger than anyone, not sloppy in his technique, and absolutely utterly unstoppable when he gets going. I think that's why he has survived this long and why he seems to have become so good. He simply has a tremendous combination of natural qualities augmented by experience and serious intangibles. Plus a little Deus Ex Machina, of course.

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I always had the impression that Perrin was only a bit better then say, the average borderland soldier (which is still pretty decent, mind you.) Keep in mind during major battles he has had fighters such as Aram and Gaul and Loial at his back. But when he and Aram fought, Aram was absolutely kicking his ass. Part of that may have been that Perrin was a bit hesitant, but it was plainly obvious that Aram was far more skilled then he. As for the Aiel, at Dumai Wells Perrin and his army crashed into their back; its not as if there was a co-ordinated aiel attack he had to defend against. So yeah, I cant really see him lasting against anyone with real skill.

 

However, he is much quicker then his size would indicate. Not as quick as Mat, but definetly quick enough to catch most people off guard.

Edited by Duskfire
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Speaking of Aram, his rise from a guy who had never touched a sword to an almost blademaster level fighter who dispatched Aiel, within a span of several months, with ease was one of the most unbelievable things in the whole series for me. Way more implausible than Perrin's battle prowess.

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There's a theory out there written by some author who says that if you spend 10,000 hours doing something, you become a master at it. Doing the math, this is 10 weeks shy of 5 years spending 40 hours a week.

 

Aram was fueled by revenge. And he was taught the sword by Tam al'Thor, a blademaster. If he learned the forms from Tam during tSR, then began practicing them then he also fought at the battle of the Two Rivers in tSR and other battles as well with Perrin from tSR onward, I can see how this is plausible.

 

At an average of 8 hours per day only 5 days a week it would take him less than 5 years to become a master. Say driven by his rage and vengeance he practiced every day. That would take him about 180 weeks, about 3 and a half years. Say Aram, being driven by the fact that most of his family was killed by Trollocs then turned into a DF to fuel his fires, practiced 12 hours a day, it would take him about 120 weeks to reach the 10,000 hour mark, which is 2 years and 4 months.

 

Aram is pretty much with Perrin from tSR onwards and spends his time guarding Perrin. I'm guessing in his free time, since he never developed a love interest, and became a DF, probably spent most of his free time practicing the forms Tam taught him. Add that to the skills you gain when your life is on the line in a real life battle, and all the battles he has fought, and it's not as far fetched as you think. Its too late to google the Timeline, but I'd be much obliged if someone provided the link. By the time TGS hits it's not unlikely that Aram has been practicing the sword enough to reach the 10,000 hour earmark.

 

I know he sort of jumped in an earlier book though, so I can understand your feeling that he made the turn from a pacifist into nearly a Blademaster way too quickly. I'll have to revisit this thread when I re-read through some of the other books, and find out when RJ first started explaining Aram as being very skilled, then compare that to what the estimates on the passage of time are in the time-line. It should be some good research.

Edited by Hawk Jahad
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Why do you think Aram was a DF?

 

10,000 hours is only an estimate, and it takes into account having a life other than what you are practicing, for someone such as Aram, who had nothing except the sword, it is likely he could master is far, far faster because he suffers none of the distractions that would befall most people.

 

Perrin's ability seems to be a bit of "Main Character" and the rest is a combination of his speed, strength (the way he is described a glancing blow of his hammer would hurt horribly), and the wolf in him

Edited by Majsju
Even that was too far into spoiler territory.
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I imagine it to be wolf instincts as anything else early on. Animal instincts go a long way, and would definitely help a big chap like Perrin. The axe is a formiddable weapon for someone like him because axe wielding is a lot more strength-based than the sword or spear. All Perrin needs to do is swing mighty swings and the enemy doesnt have much of a chance to parry without a shield, you have to get out of the way. Add to that that Perrin is Ta'veren like people have already said, with chance working for him amongst a battlefield, and he becomes quite a nasty guy to go up against. And then theres the fact that he began to really, really like using the axe. And the animal rage he suffered from early on.

 

Ranger/Barbarian multiclass with Trollocs and Fades as his favored enemies, two weapon fighting style with hammer and dagger like in KoD, Hopper as his animal companion, and Barbarian rage when the wolves die.

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Ranger/Barbarian multiclass with Trollocs and Fades as his favored enemies, two weapon fighting style with hammer and dagger like in KoD, Hopper as his animal companion, and Barbarian rage when the wolves die.

 

*Wonders if Perrin should spend some points in Charisma...*

 

Jokes aside

 

Gotta confess I like the thought of Perrin being our "regular guy" in terms of fightning skills. Hes allways seemed to be the most beliveable of the main chars, so somehow it would be fitting if her werent that awesome in battle. Generally I prefer to belive his advantage in battle comes from people haveing to focus on dodgeing everything he does in battle, rather than him being an awesome killing machine... Its a lot harder to get an opening when you can possibly hope to counter you foes attacks

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There's a theory out there written by some author who says that if you spend 10,000 hours doing something, you become a master at it. Doing the math, this is 10 weeks shy of 5 years spending 40 hours a week.

 

Aram was fueled by revenge. And he was taught the sword by Tam al'Thor, a blademaster. If he learned the forms from Tam during tSR, then began practicing them then he also fought at the battle of the Two Rivers in tSR and other battles as well with Perrin from tSR onward, I can see how this is plausible.

 

At an average of 8 hours per day only 5 days a week it would take him less than 5 years to become a master. Say driven by his rage and vengeance he practiced every day. That would take him about 180 weeks, about 3 and a half years. Say Aram, being driven by the fact that most of his family was killed by Trollocs then turned into a DF to fuel his fires, practiced 12 hours a day, it would take him about 120 weeks to reach the 10,000 hour mark, which is 2 years and 4 months.

 

Aram is pretty much with Perrin from tSR onwards and spends his time guarding Perrin. I'm guessing in his free time, since he never developed a love interest, and became a DF, probably spent most of his free time practicing the forms Tam taught him. Add that to the skills you gain when your life is on the line in a real life battle, and all the battles he has fought, and it's not as far fetched as you think. Its too late to google the Timeline, but I'd be much obliged if someone provided the link. By the time TGS hits it's not unlikely that Aram has been practicing the sword enough to reach the 10,000 hour earmark.

 

http://www.stevenac.net/wot/wotchron.htm

 

Only 6 months had passed between Aram picking up a sword for the first time and the battle of Dumai's wells, in which he was killing Aiel fighters with ease. "Aram seemed to dance with his sword, laughing as he cut down everyone in his way."

 

I don't care how motivated he was, it's still ridiculous.

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He's Ta'veren, he's a warewolf, and he's a main charecter. That's 3 points in his favor for being a badbutt fighter.

 

I just died a little inside at "Warewolf" D:

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He's Ta'veren, he's a warewolf, and he's a main charecter. That's 3 points in his favor for being a badbutt fighter.

 

I just died a little inside at "Warewolf" D:

 

English may not be his first language.

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He's Ta'veren, he's a warewolf, and he's a main charecter. That's 3 points in his favor for being a badbutt fighter.

 

I just died a little inside at "Warewolf" D:

 

English may not be his first language.

 

Quite right, meant no offence by it.

My apologies if any were taken.

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He's Ta'veren, he's a warewolf, and he's a main charecter. That's 3 points in his favor for being a badbutt fighter.

 

I just died a little inside at "Warewolf" D:

 

English may not be his first language.

 

Quite right, meant no offence by it.

My apologies if any were taken.

 

 

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::laugh::laugh:

 

Nope, English is definately my first, and only, language. I was completely kidding about him being a "warewolf." People take these topics on this forum so seriously that I feel compelled from time to time to make my comments as non-serious and simple, and perhaps instagating, as possible. That... plus the fact that by saying "warewolf" you at least know what I'm talking about, and it's quicker than saying, "he's a man who can talk to wolves, but it's more than that because he has wolf like instincts, which quite possibly gives him great strength, speed, and battle instincts."

 

I guess I could have just said, "he's a wolfbrother." But that too might require some explaining.

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  • 2 months later...

I would say it comes down to his instincts gleaned from his brothers. Lan gave him the basics, blacksmithing gave him the strength, and the instincts bring those together in such a way that what basics he got from Lan are honed to thier fullest in battle. They're also the likely reason Perrin's fights aren't described as well as Rand's or Mat's. Rand extends his awareness when he fights with the void, where Perrin lets go of himself. Mat's fights are just well described because throwing knives and spearfighting are just so much cooler to read about than the single chop or pound Perrin uses.

 

I agree

When you combine ferocity, rage, killer instincts, and being bigger than most bears.

Perrin is wild beast that has deadly instincts.

A powerful array of skills.

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You know what no one has mentioned, his Manetheren blood line. Everyone from the Two Rivers tend to be much better in battle situations than others of comparable training. Almost all are great archers, most are very good with a quarter staff, and they all have that 2 rivers determination / headedness.

 

Combine that with his wolf brother aspects, his rare size/speed combination, and the fact he has been in an almost constant battle situation since the beginning.

 

However, I really think it is mostly him being ta'veren (or AKA RJ's main character get out of jail free card).

 

The problem most fantasy authors face is making their characters too unbelievable so what did RJ do? He created this notion that the patern will self correct and protect people or events that are essential to the weavings of the wheel. And those he wanted to make even more unbelievable he labeled them ta'veren.

 

Genius, just genius!

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its mostly his unorthadox fighting style.

 

just as rand has trouble with turak is why perrin is an effective fighter. he pulls the unexpected, most expect attacks to come for the torso or head, perrin hamstrings then goes for the kill, or simply overpowers the defences

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