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Well I actually like how all the characters have faults, everyone seems to have a real dislike of Egwene (and Elayne and some others). But I just think it makes them more interesting, after all, nobody is perfect. I'm sick of reading books where the 'good guys' are amazing at everything, have no character flaws and act like saints while the 'bad guys' have no redeeming features whatsoever. The real world isn't black and white and it's the shades of grey in the WoT that give the characters their depth and make it so interesting to read.

That's a big part of why I love Egwene and Rand as characters. I can dislike them as people (Egwene for most of the series, Rand pretty much from ACOS to the VOG), but as characters, they're great.

 

Seeker & Hopefire - I pretty much agree with this premise - except in my opinion the books refuse to acknowledge that there is anything unlikeable about E/E. Both of them continue to be held up as shining paragons of perfection as one character after another realizes how amazing they are. Not really the best way to go about writing a subversive anti-Hero.

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I'm relistening to FoH at the moment, and just heard the Egwene/Nyneave confrontation. I find it funny how everything Egwene yells at Nyneave can apply to herself. At this point in the story, Nyneave knows what she should do in her thoughts, what comes out of her mouth isn't the same. Egwene, by contrast, shows no selfreflective quality and this I think is why Nyneave and Egwene are in different places. Rand is still on the lightside in FoH but Egwene is not. When she created those two men to rape Nyneave or whatever I think she just immitated what Amys did. What she did to Nyneave is a less painful version of the adam. There was no collar involved but obedience still involved coersion and pain. Amys did what she did because Egwene lied to her and it didn't involve pain. Egwene did what she did because she wasn't supposed to be there. Nyneave at least throughout the books expresses remorse to herself about some of the things she does even though she is retisent to apologize. Egwene, by contrast, celebrates her fraudulant victory over her supposed from without a shred of remorse.

To those who will dismiss this as the rantings of a Rand fan. Why is it that yeah but Rand did it to excuses Egwene. The dream about Rand sitting in a chair and the woman being murderously angry, I really hope it's the Amyrlin seat. For Egwene really needs her head handed to her before too much longer or we'll go right to the battle part of Nicola's foretelling and skip the balancing part. Darth Rand was dangerous pre-VOG, but Darth Egwene seems to taking over for him. Like many have said, nearly killing Nyneave to prove a point is something Darth Rand would've done.

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I'm relistening to FoH at the moment, and just heard the Egwene/Nyneave confrontation. I find it funny how everything Egwene yells at Nyneave can apply to herself. At this point in the story, Nyneave knows what she should do in her thoughts, what comes out of her mouth isn't the same. Egwene, by contrast, shows no selfreflective quality and this I think is why Nyneave and Egwene are in different places. Rand is still on the lightside in FoH but Egwene is not. When she created those two men to rape Nyneave or whatever I think she just immitated what Amys did. What she did to Nyneave is a less painful version of the adam. There was no collar involved but obedience still involved coersion and pain. Amys did what she did because Egwene lied to her and it didn't involve pain. Egwene did what she did because she wasn't supposed to be there. Nyneave at least throughout the books expresses remorse to herself about some of the things she does even though she is retisent to apologize. Egwene, by contrast, celebrates her fraudulant victory over her supposed from without a shred of remorse.

To those who will dismiss this as the rantings of a Rand fan. Why is it that yeah but Rand did it to excuses Egwene. The dream about Rand sitting in a chair and the woman being murderously angry, I really hope it's the Amyrlin seat. For Egwene really needs her head handed to her before too much longer or we'll go right to the battle part of Nicola's foretelling and skip the balancing part. Darth Rand was dangerous pre-VOG, but Darth Egwene seems to taking over for him. Like many have said, nearly killing Nyneave to prove a point is something Darth Rand would've done.

 

Yes, I agree here.

 

And a continuation of the Rand fanboy crap, everyone knows Rand's faults, he himself did, the whole world basically hated him with all of those faults. Now, post VOG Rand has redeemed himself and acknowledged such faults and now is a better person for it. He has done his learning and recompensating.

 

Egwene on the other hand, while sharing alot of Rand's faults, is idolized by Aes Sedai and basically anyone she meets, faults forgotten or rationalized in her own mind (making excuses so she doesnt have to feel bad). Also, she has not changed, nor shows any intention of doing so because everyone thinks she is perfect.

 

That is the difference between Rand and Egwene. Egwene needs to learn just as Rand did, but yet while he is hated and feared for such faults, she looks like a knight in shining armour.

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she IS the knight in shining armour. Reunited the tower from the ashes of elaida's rule, struck agreements between all women channeller groups and taken out mesana.

 

Perrin took out Mesana by moving the dreamspike, teaching Egwene something she should have known since day one, and being a ta'veren. Egwene was just conveniently located to land the last blow and take full credit despite the fact that she her plan had failed completely.

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8. Her actions toward Perrin in TAR. Are not just arrogant, they’re potentially deadly. Trying to tie him up in the middle of a battle? And don’t tell me, “Oh, she was just doing that while she pushed him out of the Dream.” In the first place, we haven’t seen anything to suggest that immobilizing someone is necessary or even helpful in pushing them out of the Dream. In the second place, she says something like, “I’m sorry Perrin, I’ll be back for you.” She was clearly planning on leaving him in place while she ran off and fought the battle.

Uh, yeah? She had no way of knowing Perrin had any ability in the Dream. Seeing her friend in a horribly dangerous conflict (one he didn't even know about) ought to make her freak out and try to keep him safe, especially given that she has seen exactly how dumb all three of those boys are about insisting on trying to keep her and other women safe even at risk to themselves. From her perspective, it wouldn't exactly be the first time one of them has bumbled off into some danger that she's better able to protect herself from.

I actually saw this as a somewhat clumsy, but unavoidably planned-out, way for the authors to show Egwene (and by extension the WT) Perrin's dream ability. It had to come out eventually.

 

'Hey, let's mash Perrin's dream fight with slayer together with egwene's tel'aranrhiod fight with messana. Then we can sort out this dreamspike thing and Galad can go to TG with Perrin'.

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she IS the knight in shining armour. Reunited the tower from the ashes of elaida's rule, struck agreements between all women channeller groups and taken out mesana.

 

Perrin took out Mesana by moving the dreamspike, teaching Egwene something she should have known since day one, and being a ta'veren. Egwene was just conveniently located to land the last blow and take full credit despite the fact that she her plan had failed completely.

 

all ifs and butts. in the end she was the one defeated her. not perrin.

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she IS the knight in shining armour. Reunited the tower from the ashes of elaida's rule, struck agreements between all women channeller groups and taken out mesana.

 

Perrin took out Mesana by moving the dreamspike, teaching Egwene something she should have known since day one, and being a ta'veren. Egwene was just conveniently located to land the last blow and take full credit despite the fact that she her plan had failed completely.

 

all ifs and butts. in the end she was the one defeated her. not perrin.

 

While claiming Perrin defeated her is an admitted exaggeration there are no iffs and buts to the fact that Egwene had failed. She fell for Mesana's trap 100% and got people killed for it. She would have gotten herself killed as well if not for the dreamspike. That and what she learned from Perrin moments before being leashed is easily the most contrived scene in the entire series. To her credit she did take the lesson to heart and immediately applied in her fight. However, to exalt her for defeating Mesana as if her plan succeeded is a bit of a stretch.

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so what. alot of people had help in fighting the bad guys. rand would have been toast if nynaeve didnt interfere in his fight with rahvin. same with sammael. it's the only way farm boys and farm girls can beat the big bad forsaken according to the authors

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so what. alot of people had help in fighting the bad guys. rand would have been toast if nynaeve didnt interfere in his fight with rahvin. same with sammael. it's the only way farm boys and farm girls can beat the big bad forsaken according to the authors

 

Yet they all share their credit appropriately. Egwene is the only one that routinely does the least of all of them yet walks away with nearly 100% of the credit every time. It is one of the many reasons why Egwene is the most annoying character in the book. Rand, even at the height of his madness, was not shy about the fact that he was alive in a large part because Nynaeve saved his ass many times.

 

You ask Egwene about Perrin after that battle and her reply would be, "Perrin who?".

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To her credit she did take the lesson to heart and immediately applied in her fight.

Something she does regularly, unlike other more willful characters who believe they're already perfect... Like Mat, for example. ;)

 

She's a good learner.

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And what about his final fight with Semirhage? Who helped him then?

 

The point people are making is that Egwene's plan failed. She got people killed, people who were her responsibility, and who should never have been in that situation. And the objective was only accomplished due to the actions of someone else.

 

And yet there is STILL no indication of remorse, self-criticism, or even self-reflection in Egwene's POVs. It's like a lottery winner believing he DESERVES to be wealthy.

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so what. alot of people had help in fighting the bad guys. rand would have been toast if nynaeve didnt interfere in his fight with rahvin. same with sammael. it's the only way farm boys and farm girls can beat the big bad forsaken according to the authors

 

Yet they all share their credit appropriately. Egwene is the only one that routinely does the least of all of them yet walks away with nearly 100% of the credit every time. It is one of the many reasons why Egwene is the most annoying character in the book. Rand, even at the height of his madness, was not shy about the fact that he was alive in a large part because Nynaeve saved his ass many times.

 

You ask Egwene about Perrin after that battle and her reply would be, "Perrin who?".

 

least of all? have we been reading different books? so that we understand each other, who reunited the white tower and purged the black ajah? who fought back against the seanchan whilst the aes sedai were bickering with each other?

 

i won't even bother with that perrin comment. i think you need to read that whole chapter again

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least of all? have we been reading different books? so that we understand each other, who reunited the white tower and purged the black ajah? who fought back against the seanchan whilst the aes sedai were bickering with each other?

I know the egwene lovers will flame me for daring to say that she is less than perfect, but it's just the plain truth.

 

Egwene's reuniting the white tower was her definite high point. While she had massive help in it (e.g. if the seanchan had not attacked, she likely is not raised. if she is not rescued (which she yelled at suian about), she is likely not raised. if the entire situation was not so contrived and unrealistic, she could not do it), she WAS very good in her approach.

 

Giving her credit for purging the black ajah when she was given a list of their names from Verin is a bit disingenuous. And, she was given the oath rod process from the BA hunters in the tower. It was not really her purge...it was all Verin's accomplishment.

 

Fighting the Seanchan was great, but, even there she left a lot to be desired (e.g. any reason not to bring in the rebel AS into the fight? Or, whip up a tornado to knock down all the flying beasts? gateway a group ahead of their return and knock them down as they flee? etc)

 

Egwene has some nice accomplishments in tGS, but in the latest book she returned to her holier than thou attitude that only she knows best while not focusing on the what the big picture actually is. And, she (and the author) never acknowledges her reliance on others to succeed.

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so what. alot of people had help in fighting the bad guys. rand would have been toast if nynaeve didnt interfere in his fight with rahvin. same with sammael. it's the only way farm boys and farm girls can beat the big bad forsaken according to the authors

 

Yet they all share their credit appropriately. Egwene is the only one that routinely does the least of all of them yet walks away with nearly 100% of the credit every time. It is one of the many reasons why Egwene is the most annoying character in the book. Rand, even at the height of his madness, was not shy about the fact that he was alive in a large part because Nynaeve saved his ass many times.

 

You ask Egwene about Perrin after that battle and her reply would be, "Perrin who?".

 

least of all? have we been reading different books? so that we understand each other, who reunited the white tower and purged the black ajah? who fought back against the seanchan whilst the aes sedai were bickering with each other?

 

i won't even bother with that perrin comment. i think you need to read that whole chapter again

 

So, of the five:

 

Rand. Dragon Reborn, conquered most of the nations of Westland, unified the Aeil, etc, etc.

 

Mat. Freed Moiraine from the Finns, forged a great fighting force from nothing, married the empress of Seanchan, rescued brats more than once.

 

Perrin. Defeated the Shaido, forged something of an alliance with Seanchan, brought the Whitecloaks on board, rescued the Two Rivers, forged the first magical weapon in millenia, defeated Slayer, stopped balefire (saving Egwene's life in the process, let's not forget.)

 

Nynaeve. Discovered remarkable new form of healing, healed stilling, healed madness, saved Rand (and by extension, the entire world), and cleansed saidin.

 

Egwene. Won the political battle for control of the she-woman man haters club, eliminated many but by no means all of the darkfriends WITHIN HER OWN ORGANIZATION, after Verin IDENTIFIED THEM FOR HER, defeated a foresaken after Perrin showed her how and trapped her prey where Egwene could get her.

 

It is by no means unreasonable to see Egwene's accomplishments, impressive as they may be, as the least of the Two Rivers 5.

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She's a good learner.

One of the very first lessons learned in TAR is that things are only real if you accept them as real. This is repeated ad nauseam. The fact that she needed that reminder speaks volumes about her ability to "learn". She's a lucky imbecile, that's all.

 

 

least of all? have we been reading different books? so that we understand each other, who reunited the white tower and purged the black ajah? who fought back against the seanchan whilst the aes sedai were bickering with each other?

 

She was handed a near complete list of the BA and only managed to capture and execute a mere quarter of them. That's a colossal failure by any measure and probably rather less than Verin had thought she would be able to do.

 

It's a strange thing about Egwene; while she was the underdog she was clever and competent, but the moment she was freed from Elaida she made mistake after mistake. The plan to wipe out the BA resulted in roughly three quarters getting away. Her bizarre conclusion that Mesaana was behind the murders, even though there was no indication that the OP had even been used, continuing to believe that even after Gawyn had a swordfight with "her", and using the same trap that had already been sprung even though the attacker had to be aware of it. Mindboggling stupidity. In fact, I can't for the life of me remember a single thing she got right in this book aside from finally managing to remember how malleable TAR is.

 

It's clear that you are rooting for Egwene above all others, but let me just tell you one thing; you can do better.

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so what. alot of people had help in fighting the bad guys. rand would have been toast if nynaeve didnt interfere in his fight with rahvin. same with sammael. it's the only way farm boys and farm girls can beat the big bad forsaken according to the authors

 

Yet they all share their credit appropriately. Egwene is the only one that routinely does the least of all of them yet walks away with nearly 100% of the credit every time. It is one of the many reasons why Egwene is the most annoying character in the book. Rand, even at the height of his madness, was not shy about the fact that he was alive in a large part because Nynaeve saved his ass many times.

 

You ask Egwene about Perrin after that battle and her reply would be, "Perrin who?".

 

least of all? have we been reading different books? so that we understand each other, who reunited the white tower and purged the black ajah? who fought back against the seanchan whilst the aes sedai were bickering with each other?

 

i won't even bother with that perrin comment. i think you need to read that whole chapter again

 

You may need to read the chapter again. Egwene completely missread what was going on in the tower. She assumed the murders were casued by Mesana despite the fact that they were not caused by a channeler AND Gawyn fought one of them. Despite this Egwene still assumed she was right and walked right into Mesana's trap. She got her own members killed for no reason and had the dreamspike not been moved there by Perin would have been killed or captured. Even with the dreamspike stopping Mesana from luring her into the trap she still almost blew it with baelfire and then the collar. Perrin directly saved her the first time by proving he knew more about the World Of Dreams despite having barely spent any time there. He has to reteach her the first basic lesson of the World of Dreams which she had forgotten and she used this to stop the collar.

 

Egwene blew it every chance she had with Mesana and only survived because of direct intervention from Perrin. So she misreads the situtation, gets people killed, proves had failed to learn the most basic lesson of the World of Dreams, gets her ass saved by Perrin, still gets captured, and just barely gets out of it by applying the last lesson. Yet you still think she deserves full credit for taking down Mesana?

 

As I said before she did good by applying the lesson she had just learned and overcoming the collar. She deserves some credit. However that credit pales in comparison to her failures during that encounter.

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actually I think Egwene summed it up well when she beat mesaana, I am the amyrlin seat and all the will and power it holds.

 

She took the power and it went to her head and now she thinks she is absolutely right in everything because she is amyrlin.

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She's a good learner.

One of the very first lessons learned in TAR is that things are only real if you accept them as real. This is repeated ad nauseam. The fact that she needed that reminder speaks volumes about her ability to "learn". She's a lucky imbecile, that's all.

 

 

least of all? have we been reading different books? so that we understand each other, who reunited the white tower and purged the black ajah? who fought back against the seanchan whilst the aes sedai were bickering with each other?

 

She was handed a near complete list of the BA and only managed to capture and execute a mere quarter of them. That's a colossal failure by any measure and probably rather less than Verin had thought she would be able to do.

 

It's a strange thing about Egwene; while she was the underdog she was clever and competent, but the moment she was freed from Elaida she made mistake after mistake. The plan to wipe out the BA resulted in roughly three quarters getting away. Her bizarre conclusion that Mesaana was behind the murders, even though there was no indication that the OP had even been used, continuing to believe that even after Gawyn had a swordfight with "her", and using the same trap that had already been sprung even though the attacker had to be aware of it. Mindboggling stupidity. In fact, I can't for the life of me remember a single thing she got right in this book aside from finally managing to remember how malleable TAR is.

 

It's clear that you are rooting for Egwene above all others, but let me just tell you one thing; you can do better.

 

 

this is not about rooting. this is about ppl downplaying egwene's achievements. Apparently it seems whatever she has done in this 13 books is irrelevant since she's received help in doing so. Going by that logic no one and i mean no one in WOT has done anything of worth since everyone has gotton help one way or another.

 

I also find it amusing that egwene was to blame for the deaths committed by the black ajah. Now that is simply scrapping the bottom of the barrel. may be our resident egwene haters should go after lord rand al thor since many people have died for his mistakes. But i am not holding my breath.

 

egwene has her faults. no doubt about that. But then so does everyone. I still say the primary reason for the egwene hate is that she's done so much and has never failed. Everytime she faces a problem she overcomes it. Her discovery of Travelling best illustrates that. People just want her humbled. Has grown too upitty for some. Just like at one point in this forum ppl wanted cadusuane to be smacked. There's a famous saying. No body kicks a dead dog. Egwene must be doing something right judging by the posts in this thread.

 

Well i hope she continues to kick ass. I seem to remember one poster who said he was going to throw AMOL if egwene and the aes sedai destroy the incoming seanchan invasion. Oh it is going to be sweet. I personally cannot wait for that.

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I'm going to try to sum up what seem to be the key defenses of the Egwene lovers.

 

1) "Rand fan-bois just can't take it that someone stands up to their hero."

Wrong. First, not everyone who criticizes Egwene is a huge fan of Rand. Second, plenty of people stand up to Rand. Cadsuane. Moiraine. Nynaeve. Wise Ones. Bashere. Tuon. Darlin. You don't see any of these people engender anywhere near the amount of disdain as Egwene.

2) "People just can't handle a strong female character."

Bull. There are a lot of strong female characters in this series (not a lot of weak ones, actually) - Wise Ones, Nynaeve, Elayne, Birgitte, Tuon, Cadsuane, Moiraine - and none of them are as despised as Egwene. Personally, my love for Tuon as a character is matched only by that for Mat's character in the series. And there is NO stronger character than Tuon.

3) My personal favorite: "Egwene haters are just immature, give them 20 years."

What a mature retort. And no, I am not a child, not all Egwene haters are, and in 20 years when I'm 56, I'm sure I'll still consider Egwene a bitch.

 

There's a reason soooo many people dislike Egwene, and no, it's not because they just can't handle her awesomeness.

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Who the fuck IS helping the Borderlands? Rand making a brief stop off and (at least temporarily) saving Maradon is not exactly solving the problem. Why isn't this his responsibility?

 

This was such a hilarious fail I couldn't help but point it out.

 

Rand gathers Ituralde and gets him into the Borderlands to assist in holding off the invasion of trollocs.

Rand brings Bashere and his army to Maradon.

Rand sees the courage and light in the men at Maradon and decides they've done enough. He then proceeds to risk everything to save them and wipes out 'hundreds of thousands' (that is a quote) of trollocs.

Rand meets the utterly stupid Borderlanders who thought to meet Rand they needed to bring just about every single soldier in the Borderlands with them, risking all of humanity. He basically humbles himself in front of these utter idiots in an attempt to have those armies back up in the Borderlands to keep the invasion from coming south too soon.

Rand did all this whilst juggling The White Tower, the nations of the world, the Forsaken, cleansing of the taint (I can't remember if this came before he got Ituralde or not), restoring Bandar Eban or Ebou Dar (I forgot), bubbles of evil, his own sanity and more.

 

What did Egwene do? Nothing at all to help the Borderlands.

 

 

You sir just failed.

 

And no, Rand isn't my favourite character. My list goes Mat = Moiraine > Birgitte > Rand > Min.

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She's a good learner.

One of the very first lessons learned in TAR is that things are only real if you accept them as real. This is repeated ad nauseam. The fact that she needed that reminder speaks volumes about her ability to "learn". She's a lucky imbecile, that's all.

 

 

least of all? have we been reading different books? so that we understand each other, who reunited the white tower and purged the black ajah? who fought back against the seanchan whilst the aes sedai were bickering with each other?

 

She was handed a near complete list of the BA and only managed to capture and execute a mere quarter of them. That's a colossal failure by any measure and probably rather less than Verin had thought she would be able to do.

 

It's a strange thing about Egwene; while she was the underdog she was clever and competent, but the moment she was freed from Elaida she made mistake after mistake. The plan to wipe out the BA resulted in roughly three quarters getting away. Her bizarre conclusion that Mesaana was behind the murders, even though there was no indication that the OP had even been used, continuing to believe that even after Gawyn had a swordfight with "her", and using the same trap that had already been sprung even though the attacker had to be aware of it. Mindboggling stupidity. In fact, I can't for the life of me remember a single thing she got right in this book aside from finally managing to remember how malleable TAR is.

 

It's clear that you are rooting for Egwene above all others, but let me just tell you one thing; you can do better.

 

 

this is not about rooting. this is about ppl downplaying egwene's achievements. Apparently it seems whatever she has done in this 13 books is irrelevant since she's received help in doing so. Going by that logic no one and i mean no one in WOT has done anything of worth since everyone has gotton help one way or another.

 

I also find it amusing that egwene was to blame for the deaths committed by the black ajah. Now that is simply scrapping the bottom of the barrel. may be our resident egwene haters should go after lord rand al thor since many people have died for his mistakes. But i am not holding my breath.

 

egwene has her faults. no doubt about that. But then so does everyone. I still say the primary reason for the egwene hate is that she's done so much and has never failed. Everytime she faces a problem she overcomes it. Her discovery of Travelling best illustrates that. People just want her humbled. Has grown too upitty for some. Just like at one point in this forum ppl wanted cadusuane to be smacked. There's a famous saying. No body kicks a dead dog. Egwene must be doing something right judging by the posts in this thread.

 

Well i hope she continues to kick ass. I seem to remember one poster who said he was going to throw AMOL if egwene and the aes sedai destroy the incoming seanchan invasion. Oh it is going to be sweet. I personally cannot wait for that.

If you hadn't made the point about rooting I would have thought you were replying to someone else. I never said anything about her achievements being lessened because she received help. I never blamed her for the deaths caused by the BA. I never mentioned Rand at all since this thread is named "Discuss Egwene". If you won't address a single point I made, why did you even bother replying?

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Who the fuck IS helping the Borderlands? Rand making a brief stop off and (at least temporarily) saving Maradon is not exactly solving the problem. Why isn't this his responsibility?

 

This was such a hilarious fail I couldn't help but point it out.

 

Rand gathers Ituralde and gets him into the Borderlands to assist in holding off the invasion of trollocs.

Rand brings Bashere and his army to Maradon.

Rand sees the courage and light in the men at Maradon and decides they've done enough. He then proceeds to risk everything to save them and wipes out 'hundreds of thousands' (that is a quote) of trollocs.

Rand meets the utterly stupid Borderlanders who thought to meet Rand they needed to bring just about every single soldier in the Borderlands with them, risking all of humanity. He basically humbles himself in front of these utter idiots in an attempt to have those armies back up in the Borderlands to keep the invasion from coming south too soon.

Rand did all this whilst juggling The White Tower, the nations of the world, the Forsaken, cleansing of the taint (I can't remember if this came before he got Ituralde or not), restoring Bandar Eban or Ebou Dar (I forgot), bubbles of evil, his own sanity and more.

 

What did Egwene do? Nothing at all to help the Borderlands.

 

 

You sir just failed.

 

And no, Rand isn't my favourite character. My list goes Mat = Moiraine > Birgitte > Rand > Min.

 

That has already been accounted for. They are NO LONGER HER RESPONSIBILITY. Due to the motion passed by the Hall in this very book, they are the Hall's responsibility. So....

 

I'm afraid to say that your fail failed.

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Who the fuck IS helping the Borderlands? Rand making a brief stop off and (at least temporarily) saving Maradon is not exactly solving the problem. Why isn't this his responsibility?

 

This was such a hilarious fail I couldn't help but point it out.

 

Rand gathers Ituralde and gets him into the Borderlands to assist in holding off the invasion of trollocs.

Rand brings Bashere and his army to Maradon.

Rand sees the courage and light in the men at Maradon and decides they've done enough. He then proceeds to risk everything to save them and wipes out 'hundreds of thousands' (that is a quote) of trollocs.

Rand meets the utterly stupid Borderlanders who thought to meet Rand they needed to bring just about every single soldier in the Borderlands with them, risking all of humanity. He basically humbles himself in front of these utter idiots in an attempt to have those armies back up in the Borderlands to keep the invasion from coming south too soon.

Rand did all this whilst juggling The White Tower, the nations of the world, the Forsaken, cleansing of the taint (I can't remember if this came before he got Ituralde or not), restoring Bandar Eban or Ebou Dar (I forgot), bubbles of evil, his own sanity and more.

 

What did Egwene do? Nothing at all to help the Borderlands.

 

 

You sir just failed.

 

And no, Rand isn't my favourite character. My list goes Mat = Moiraine > Birgitte > Rand > Min.

 

That has already been accounted for. They are NO LONGER HER RESPONSIBILITY. Due to the motion passed by the Hall in this very book, they are the Hall's responsibility. So....

 

I'm afraid to say that your fail failed.

I believe the Kings and Queens of Randland are, in fact, her responsibility. Any assistance would surely have to go through them first? Motion to fail a fail... has failed.

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Who the fuck IS helping the Borderlands? Rand making a brief stop off and (at least temporarily) saving Maradon is not exactly solving the problem. Why isn't this his responsibility?

 

This was such a hilarious fail I couldn't help but point it out.

 

Rand gathers Ituralde and gets him into the Borderlands to assist in holding off the invasion of trollocs.

Rand brings Bashere and his army to Maradon.

Rand sees the courage and light in the men at Maradon and decides they've done enough. He then proceeds to risk everything to save them and wipes out 'hundreds of thousands' (that is a quote) of trollocs.

Rand meets the utterly stupid Borderlanders who thought to meet Rand they needed to bring just about every single soldier in the Borderlands with them, risking all of humanity. He basically humbles himself in front of these utter idiots in an attempt to have those armies back up in the Borderlands to keep the invasion from coming south too soon.

Rand did all this whilst juggling The White Tower, the nations of the world, the Forsaken, cleansing of the taint (I can't remember if this came before he got Ituralde or not), restoring Bandar Eban or Ebou Dar (I forgot), bubbles of evil, his own sanity and more.

 

What did Egwene do? Nothing at all to help the Borderlands.

 

 

You sir just failed.

 

And no, Rand isn't my favourite character. My list goes Mat = Moiraine > Birgitte > Rand > Min.

 

That has already been accounted for. They are NO LONGER HER RESPONSIBILITY. Due to the motion passed by the Hall in this very book, they are the Hall's responsibility. So....

 

I'm afraid to say that your fail failed.

I believe the Kings and Queens of Randland are, in fact, her responsibility. Any assistance would surely have to go through them first? Motion to fail a fail... has failed.

 

You are both right in a sense.

 

It depends how you look at it.

 

The decision to send Aes Sedai and the Tower Guard to Kandor, Sheinar, Arafel or Saldaea has been given to the Hall and Byrne, this is true, so technically it isnt Egwene's juristiction to prepare armies in defence of the Borderlands. even still, this is a new development, she had a reasonable amount of time before this decision to at least talk about aiding the borderlands. it seems she has givenn them up for lost, as Byrne is planning for a war that doesnt seem to include the borderlands. Even though she is technically not in charge of the military distribution, she is - as she frequently likes to remind everyone- the all powerful Amyrlin. She could have at least brought the matter to the Hall's attention. So just because she managed to pass off the responsibilty, it doesnt get her off the hook completely.

 

Secondly, one could say that to aid the borderlands she would have to do so through the monarchs as pointed out. Get them back defending the blightborder instead of waiting around in Far Madding. However, she seems singularly focused on taking down Rand.

 

I am not saying that she is particularly evil for disregarding the borderlands (which she has, no excuses made). It IS true that Rand is the most important person in the world. To put it delicately - "negotiating" with Rand is the most important thing in the world. So even though she is going about it the wrong way, trying to subvert Rand like she is. I believe she is right in putting Rand ahead of the Borderlands.

 

So there are two sides to the arguement, and both are right in their own ways. Even though I dont like how Egwene is dealing with Rand and her whole attitude in ToM, I dont think we can blame her for not doing everything in the world. She is only human, she cant do 1000 things at once. To her credit, she is doing what she thinks is most important, which it is, even though her method and reasoning is off.

 

The problem is, she works too hard and wants to control everything. So I suppose when she fails at doing that, readers point out this fault, because even though she fails to handle every single little detail, she still fails to realize she CANT do everything. She needs to trust others - Aka, Rand - with things that she knows little about. She shoudl focus on doing what she CAN do well. Which is holding the Aes Sedai together and preparing for Tarmon Gaidon.

 

However, she thinks she has to tell Rand and everyone else how to do their jobs, therefore neglecting part of her own.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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