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if the male power was tainted by touching the dark one...


maglinvinn
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couldn't Rand use the true power in its place? it seems to operate on the same patterns as the source he uses normally, and with LT's comment that the touching ofte dark one w/ the power was the reason it was tainted, the true power could be turned against him in that fashion.

 

Just a thought.

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Yes, but the True Power being the essence of the Dark One, using it against his source would be like using water to dam a river.

 

But I suppose using True Power to make a "layer" on the DO, above which you bridge the gap in the Pattern, and you have a shield preventing the DO from tainting the Source. That is if you consider that the Power chanelled no longer belongs to the source (of that power), rather to the chaneller. And so is not affected by/linked to the being behind the Power.

 

 

If I make sense...

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Hmm. This is the first time I'm actually considering this theory as anything viable. But doesn't this method mandate that the channeler himself remain on the other side? After all, the flow of TP passes through him (I say him because I know of no female TP channeler. That might change, of course, as some women had access in the past), doesn't it?

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Doesn't bypass the fact that if Rand starting using the TP on the DO im sure the DO would just revoke all TP Privileges, remember you need PERMISSION to use it.

 

But I am still in the minority that thinks Rand accessed the True Power through his link with Moridin and without the DO's knowledge or planning. If this is the case, he could draw on it and the DO would never know because he would just think that Moridin was channeling it.

 

Note: I do not believe that the TP will be used to help seal the Bore but I do think it is possible for Rand to use the TP without the DO knowing.

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Doesn't bypass the fact that if Rand starting using the TP on the DO im sure the DO would just revoke all TP Privileges, remember you need PERMISSION to use it.

 

But I am still in the minority that thinks Rand accessed the True Power through his link with Moridin and without the DO's knowledge or planning. If this is the case, he could draw on it and the DO would never know because he would just think that Moridin was channeling it.

 

Note: I do not believe that the TP will be used to help seal the Bore but I do think it is possible for Rand to use the TP without the DO knowing.

 

Even if we for a moment consider the possibility that Rand might have tapped into TP through Moridin just by accident, and noone noticed anything, there is need to consider the huge difference in situation here. In TGS, rand used TP for a moment, just enough to balefire Semirhage. But at Shayol Ghul, Rand must basically channel at the DO himself. Chances are the DO might notice something, and do something about it. Like, cutting all access to TP.

 

Of course,there is another complication to keep in mind. TP is restricted to Moridin. And if we go with the idea that Rand accessed TP through Moridin, that dear old dingbat must be quite alive when Rand gets to work sealing the Bore.

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Doesn't bypass the fact that if Rand starting using the TP on the DO im sure the DO would just revoke all TP Privileges, remember you need PERMISSION to use it.

 

But I am still in the minority that thinks Rand accessed the True Power through his link with Moridin and without the DO's knowledge or planning. If this is the case, he could draw on it and the DO would never know because he would just think that Moridin was channeling it.

 

Note: I do not believe that the TP will be used to help seal the Bore but I do think it is possible for Rand to use the TP without the DO knowing.

 

Even if we for a moment consider the possibility that Rand might have tapped into TP through Moridin just by accident, and noone noticed anything, there is need to consider the huge difference in situation here. In TGS, rand used TP for a moment, just enough to balefire Semirhage. But at Shayol Ghul, Rand must basically channel at the DO himself. Chances are the DO might notice something, and do something about it. Like, cutting all access to TP.

 

Of course,there is another complication to keep in mind. TP is restricted to Moridin. And if we go with the idea that Rand accessed TP through Moridin, that dear old dingbat must be quite alive when Rand gets to work sealing the Bore.

 

Oh, I agree - I think it is very unlikely that Rand would be able to use the True Power at Shayol Ghul. I was just playing a little bit of devil's advocate.

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Oh, it's unlikely all right:

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 9 October 1996, Dunwoody, GA - Erica Sadun reporting

Q: New Dreadlords? Via True Power? What are limits of True Power? When did we see it used before?

 

RJ: Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In Prologue to The Eye of the World, we saw Ishamael use the True Power to Heal insanity. The One Power can not be used to Heal insanity. True Power used at Shayol Ghul will fry you instantly.

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But I am still in the minority that thinks Rand accessed the True Power through his link with Moridin and without the DO's knowledge or planning. If this is the case, he could draw on it and the DO would never know because he would just think that Moridin was channeling it.

There's a minority? I thought it was clear that Rand was using Moridin's connection :s

 

If Rand is using a connection of his own then the Dark One can shut him off at any time.

If Rand is using Moridin's connection then the Dark One can simply shut off Moridin as soon as he becomes aware what's going on.

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But I am still in the minority that thinks Rand accessed the True Power through his link with Moridin and without the DO's knowledge or planning.

 

I haven't decided, myself, but consider that Shaidar Haran personally shows up and hands Semirhage the Domination Band. SH basically is the DO, and clearly had some notion of what was about to happen. He's likely quite aware of the link with Moridin, and thus could have stopped it since he knows when someone is using the TP.

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It is intuitively obvious that The DO will seal himself. The reason is simple, Rand will show him CoT and say "Either you seal yourself away or I will make you read this, while listening to Elayne, Egwene, AND Nyn!" Oddly enough the DO's prison was finished midway through Egwene's name. He appears to have been very, very scared.

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Nice sealing, Torn Shadow : )

 

I just had an idea. If you seal the DO while SH is not in Shayol Ghul, it is pointless. The DO will still be able to wander loose. Except if the sealing shut the connexion between SH and DO. Like Moiraine and Lan bond. But if it doesn't, you take SH by the hide of his back, you throw it in the pit, and seal upon it. And don't worry, be happy! : )

 

About Rand TP connexion : I suppose it is the DO wanting Rand, one way or another, to chanel the TP. Either through Moridin's link, or via himself directly. Remember Graendal's order. She had ro bring him pain of heart. Make him suffer. That was a prerequirement to Rand chaneling the TP. As soon as he wanted to destroy, and not save/build/revenge/preserve or else, he was ready for chanelling the TP. The TP is something that goes against the Pattern. That destroy the very fabric of reality to rearrange it like you want.

 

Even if it is through Moridin's link, the DO know Rand did it.

 

But I think Rand chanelled directly from the DO.

 

@Didymos : I always wondered what the range of this interdiction was. We see the Forsaken scared of chanelling any Power in Shayol Ghul. They have to go there by foot. But they Travel around there. So how far away does this risk disappear? If you chanel at the slopes of Shayol Ghul, by example.

LTT did seal the DO. So there wasn't so much danger where he was doing it. And he wasn't 10 miles away, I suppose. So technically, this stand only for chanelling inside or in a near perimeter around Shayol Ghul.

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couldn't Rand use the true power in its place? it seems to operate on the same patterns as the source he uses normally, and with LT's comment that the touching ofte dark one w/ the power was the reason it was tainted, the true power could be turned against him in that fashion.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

 

The TP is 1000000 times more tainted than the tainted Saidin.....

 

 

 

 

The TP is formed when the DO himself taps into the True Source......So it is literally tainted withhin his body......That is how he is able to control who uses it...because you have to be linked with him as the forsaken.....

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The TP is formed when the DO himself taps into the True Source......So it is literally tainted withhin his body......That is how he is able to control who uses it...because you have to be linked with him as the forsaken.....

Can you substantiate this in any way?

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The TP is formed when the DO himself taps into the True Source......So it is literally tainted withhin his body......That is how he is able to control who uses it...because you have to be linked with him as the forsaken.....

Can you substantiate this in any way?

Yes please. If something like that is said in the book, it change a lot...

 

But if it is a theory, it isn't the DO that taint the TP (which isn't really tainted at all, just very nocive), but the TP being how it is because it comes from the DO. Who is a taint by himself. And proud of it.

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Thanks for your input, @didymos, but @Dagon Thyne's made this claim, and we should give him a chance to support it.

 

All well and good, but I'm making my own claim: his is insupportable. There's just no evidence for it. Anyone with the books handy and a 'net connection can check all the material on the True Power within a couple of minutes. And it's not like my saying this will make it so he can't post.

Edited by didymos
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And it's not like my saying this will make it so he can't post.

No, but the blunt way in which you do so might be interpreted as rudeness by some. You already know I agree with you on the issue (though from time to time a fresh perspective might surprise you), I just wish you've given the wording more thought.

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To the people who asked me for example of my claim....it never actualy says what the TP is in the books....but in interviews RJ has said that it is the one power corrupted in the Dark One's body......He has a direct link to the True Source and always has alccess to an undivided form of the one power.....and the fact that he can openly control who can use the TP, leads to the conclusion that it is somehow linked to the links between the DO and the Forsaken.....

 

Besides the interveiw I mentioned, there is also another source for the infomation....RJ helped write and approved the Wheel of Time D20 RP.....at the beginning of the main player guide for the game, there is a history of the WOT world, including the AoL.......It defines many of the things that are not yet defined by the books...and the fact that RJ oversaw the writing and and made sure the information corrected reflected what would be revealed in the books....

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To the people who asked me for example of my claim....it never actualy says what the TP is in the books....but in interviews RJ has said that it is the one power corrupted in the Dark One's body......He has a direct link to the True Source and always has alccess to an undivided form of the one power.....and the fact that he can openly control who can use the TP, leads to the conclusion that it is somehow linked to the links between the DO and the Forsaken.....

 

Yeah, cite please. I've read plenty of interviews and Q&A's and signing reports and RJ never said anything remotely like any of that. What he has said about it in the past is in fact pretty contradictory. And when has the DO openly controlled someone other than Shaidar Haran? He's a very unique non-human, and Shadowspawn, so you can't really generalize from his example.

 

Besides the interveiw I mentioned, there is also another source for the infomation....RJ helped write and approved the Wheel of Time D20 RP.....at the beginning of the main player guide for the game, there is a history of the WOT world, including the AoL.......It defines many of the things that are not yet defined by the books...and the fact that RJ oversaw the writing and and made sure the information corrected reflected what would be revealed in the books....

 

Yeah, no. Not a reliable source in the least. RJ basically disowned the thing, and was only minimally involved:

 

I had little to do with the RPG. Mainly my role was limited to telling them that they could not have paladins, ninjas, clerics, shuriken etc. I had to put so much time into that fighting that I washed my hands of the rest, I'm afraid. I could see that trying to make them actually adapt the books was going to be Valmy Ridge all over again. At least I managed to stop them from putting in a ter'angreal that could bring on the Last Battle in some unspecified manner and also some other really terrible ideas. I wish I had been able to do more, but I had a book to write.
Edited by didymos
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To the people who asked me for example of my claim....it never actualy says what the TP is in the books....but in interviews RJ has said that it is the one power corrupted in the Dark One's body......He has a direct link to the True Source and always has alccess to an undivided form of the one power.....and the fact that he can openly control who can use the TP, leads to the conclusion that it is somehow linked to the links between the DO and the Forsaken.....

 

Yeah, cite please. I've read plenty of interviews and Q&A's and signing reports and RJ never said anything remotely like any of that. What he has said about it in the past is in fact pretty contradictory. And when has the DO openly controlled someone other than Shaidar Haran? He's a very unique non-human, and Shadowspawn, so you can't really generalize from his example.

 

Besides the interveiw I mentioned, there is also another source for the infomation....RJ helped write and approved the Wheel of Time D20 RP.....at the beginning of the main player guide for the game, there is a history of the WOT world, including the AoL.......It defines many of the things that are not yet defined by the books...and the fact that RJ oversaw the writing and and made sure the information corrected reflected what would be revealed in the books....

 

Yeah, no. Not a reliable source in the least. RJ basically disowned the thing, and was only minimally involved:

 

I had little to do with the RPG. Mainly my role was limited to telling them that they could not have paladins, ninjas, clerics, shuriken etc. I had to put so much time into that fighting that I washed my hands of the rest, I'm afraid. I could see that trying to make them actually adapt the books was going to be Valmy Ridge all over again. At least I managed to stop them from putting in a ter'angreal that could bring on the Last Battle in some unspecified manner and also some other really terrible ideas. I wish I had been able to do more, but I had a book to write.

 

 

I didn't mean that he actually helped write it...I misspoke theere...I meant that the backstories and information given about the AoL and other aspects at the beginning of the book, was basedon information given to them by RJ........It was RJ that gave them the definitions they used for the True Power.

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