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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Moiraine


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Man, I just love it that we were all surprised by the actual status and fate of Moiraine in her captivity! (Yay for Jordan surprising us!)

Did anyone ever guess those nasty finns would be feeding off her power? I think not!

Everyone thought she would be burned out falling through the door, but that was not how it went down.

 

I love it that at this point in her life, after being rescued, after surviving a fate arguably worse than death, that she now puts love on her front burner. She even offers to give it all up for Thom, and the fact that he loves her gives him the wisdom to not take that offer. That was a sweet moment.

And although it was clear they were going to be united romantically, I for one was surprised that she also wanted him as a Warder. Maybe his knife throwing will be even more accurate! :tongue:

 

I agree with those of you who predict a role for her with Rand and Nynaeve wielding Callandor. Indeed, Rand trusts Nynaeve and Moiraine above all other female channelers, does he not? Based on that fact, it seems highly probable to me.

 

Yay Moiraine!! She will help to save the world.

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I'm wondering if Moiraine's demands touched upon the Shadow...She has said questions ( and demands as well ? ) touching upon the Shadow would be punished, but that does not mean the question/demand would not be answered.

 

The Finn's "feeding" on her may have been part of such a punishment.

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So if the Finns can give Mat memories of great generals, could they have given Moiraine vital knowledge about Callandor/TG? Considering we've had to wait 6 books to finally see her again, we can count on her doing something badass in tMoL so you guys can stop worrying about that! :D

 

I don't think she could ask for anything that touches on the shadow. Not sure if it applies to all who enter through a doorway or through the tower itself.

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So if the Finns can give Mat memories of great generals, could they have given Moiraine vital knowledge about Callandor/TG? Considering we've had to wait 6 books to finally see her again, we can count on her doing something badass in tMoL so you guys can stop worrying about that! :D

 

I don't think she could ask for anything that touches on the shadow. Not sure if it applies to all who enter through a doorway or through the tower itself.

 

Mat practically DOES touch the shadow being taveren, and Rand got his answers and they Certainly touched the shadow. i think it's just dangerous to ask about them because of the answers you may get.

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Guest Ishu161

I think her reduction in power will play a role in the power structure at the white tower.

 

We now have a former Amerlyn, former keeper, and current "legend" status Aes Sedai, all greatly reduced in power. That has to turn a few heads into thinking the power structure is a little whak.

 

I doubt that. And I doubt she gives a crap. As you said, she's a 'legend' Aes Sedai now. One who is responsible for killing two of the forsaken. And with the connection to Rand, I think if she somehow showed up at the fields of Merrilor, people are seriously gonna be intimidated by her...white tower politics be damned.

 

Seriously though, I'm really happy she's back. Though they could've given her more time 'on-screen'. She better do something really awesome (and I mean more than simply help Rand with Callandor) in AMoL!

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Just a random thought and probably way off.... But do you think if Moiraine was severed and then healed by an Asha'man that maybe she would be restored to her full strength in the OP? I know she said that with the angreal she had she would be "...stronger in the Power than before she was taken." anyway but she also said right before that that if she used it she would "...be strong enough to at least take the pain away." To me this implied that she would still be fairly weak. Like she wouldn't be able to heal the wound as far as was possible. So, I was kinda confused by that. But still kinda curious if the severing and rehealing thing might work.

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Just a random thought and probably way off.... But do you think if Moiraine was severed and then healed by an Asha'man that maybe she would be restored to her full strength in the OP? I know she said that with the angreal she had she would be "...stronger in the Power than before she was taken." anyway but she also said right before that that if she used it she would "...be strong enough to at least take the pain away." To me this implied that she would still be fairly weak. Like she wouldn't be able to heal the wound as far as was possible. So, I was kinda confused by that. But still kinda curious if the severing and rehealing thing might work.

 

I wondered this too. But I've also always wanted Flinn to get a look at the two ladies Nyneave healed, or for mistress Anan to get looked at.

However, I wonder if the author(s) already built in a solution with that incredibly powerful angreal. It makes her weakened strength a non issue, while also allowing them to develop the character in a new more vulnerable, more human, direction.

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Guest Ishu161

Just a random thought and probably way off.... But do you think if Moiraine was severed and then healed by an Asha'man that maybe she would be restored to her full strength in the OP? I know she said that with the angreal she had she would be "...stronger in the Power than before she was taken." anyway but she also said right before that that if she used it she would "...be strong enough to at least take the pain away." To me this implied that she would still be fairly weak. Like she wouldn't be able to heal the wound as far as was possible. So, I was kinda confused by that. But still kinda curious if the severing and rehealing thing might work.

 

I doubt it would work. the Aes Sedai who are stilled are not drained from the power, their connection to it is severed. so IMO that should not work. And the 'take the pain away' thing is probably just fatigue after being held captive so long. That Angreal was Lanfear's and is almost strong enough to be a Sa'angreal. Once she's well and good, she'll be channeling better...at least I hope she does.

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I wondered this too. But I've also always wanted Flinn to get a look at the two ladies Nyneave healed, or for mistress Anan to get looked at.

However, I wonder if the author(s) already built in a solution with that incredibly powerful angreal. It makes her weakened strength a non issue, while also allowing them to develop the character in a new more vulnerable, more human, direction.

 

Another thing that just occurred to me is that I thought you had to have a certain strength in the OP to be able to use more powerful angreal and sa'angreal. It was mentioned at some point that Nyaeve was one of the few powerful enough to use the female access key. Or does that apply to only sa'angreal? If it does apply to angreal as well then is it connected to the amount of OP you can draw or the innate strenth in the OP that you were born with? I wonder about a lot.

 

I doubt it would work. the Aes Sedai who are stilled are not drained from the power, their connection to it is severed. so IMO that should not work. And the 'take the pain away' thing is probably just fatigue after being held captive so long. That Angreal was Lanfear's and is almost strong enough to be a Sa'angreal. Once she's well and good, she'll be channeling better...at least I hope she does.

 

Okay! The fatigue thing makes a lot of sense. I feel much better about that scene now. As for the thing about stilled sisters not being drained like Moiraine I realize that. Its not really the way I was thinking. The best way for me to explain it is like a dry erase board filled with a complex equation in many colors of markers that gets all smeared to where it's almost unreadable. Writing back over it does little good because the smudged sections would obscure anything you wrote. But if you clean the entire thing so that you have a blank slate then you could write out the whole equation again. Like clearing away corruption by removing her link to the Source entirely and then Healing it.

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Do you think she is still bound by the three oaths? Whether she died or not, something happened to cut the bond to Lan and maybe that released her from the three oaths as well.

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Do you think she is still bound by the three oaths? Whether she died or not, something happened to cut the bond to Lan and maybe that released her from the three oaths as well.

 

She still has the ageless face.

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Do you think she is still bound by the three oaths? Whether she died or not, something happened to cut the bond to Lan and maybe that released her from the three oaths as well.

 

She still has the ageless face.

 

That may take a bit to fade. When the BA hunters released themselves from their oaths they didn't immediately lose the agelessness. Well, I could be mistaken and now that I think about it I think they only rescinded the oath on lying. But some time did pass between when Siuan was stilled and when people started noticing her new look. And it does take some time after swearing the Oaths to gain the ageless face. Don't really hold with this theory but playing devil's advocate is fun.

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Anyways, at last this settles it. Lanfear wasn't healed by a woman.

 

So the other question that remains is, is decrease in strength due to healing by the same gender a fixed amount or a percentage? That we may never find out (not like it's relevent to the last battle anyways)

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Personally, I'm intrigued by her statement that "With it I'll be very strong, stronger in the Power than before I was taken." about a page after she said that she wasn't as strong as she used to be, even with the Angreal. Confusing.

 

And was the BUT just the thing with Moiraine and Thom?Nevermind, figured it out.

Edited by talligan
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Personally, I'm intrigued by her statement that "With it I'll be very strong, stronger in the Power than before I was taken." about a page after she said that she wasn't as strong as she used to be, even with the Angreal. Confusing.

 

Um, no she didn't.

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But some time did pass between when Siuan was stilled and when people started noticing her new look. And it does take some time after swearing the Oaths to gain the ageless face.

 

No, she lost it pretty much immediately. Re-read when Min rescues her: she notices straight off that the women in the cell don't look ageless, and isn't sure it's really Siuan until she talks.

Edited by didymos
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Personally, I'm intrigued by her statement that "With it I'll be very strong, stronger in the Power than before I was taken." about a page after she said that she wasn't as strong as she used to be, even with the Angreal. Confusing.

 

Um, no she didn't.

 

Thanks for the polite and constructive reply. That really helped clarify things.

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But some time did pass between when Siuan was stilled and when people started noticing her new look. And it does take some time after swearing the Oaths to gain the ageless face.

 

No, she lost it pretty much immediately. Re-read when Min rescues her: she notices straight off that the women in the cell don't look ageless, and isn't sure it's really Siuan until she talks.

Those were forcefully severed though unlike Moiraine's case.

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But some time did pass between when Siuan was stilled and when people started noticing her new look. And it does take some time after swearing the Oaths to gain the ageless face.

 

No, she lost it pretty much immediately. Re-read when Min rescues her: she notices straight off that the women in the cell don't look ageless, and isn't sure it's really Siuan until she talks.

Those were forcefully severed though unlike Moiraine's case.

 

Moraine wasn't severed/stilled at all. And together with unbinding yourself with the Oath Rod, those are the only known ways to lose the ageless look. Therefore, until there's any actual evidence that getting 'Finn-sucked somehow removes the Oaths, and that doing so causes the ageless to gradually fade, the only reasonable explanation for her having the ageless look is that she is still bound. Until then, it's completely unfounded speculation. Which is fine, but it's not worth a whole lot, argument-wise.

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Personally, I'm intrigued by her statement that "With it I'll be very strong, stronger in the Power than before I was taken." about a page after she said that she wasn't as strong as she used to be, even with the Angreal. Confusing.

 

Um, no she didn't.

 

Thanks for the polite and constructive reply. That really helped clarify things.

 

What else is there to say? She didn't say that. What am I supposed to show you? It's a simple either/or thing.

Edited by didymos
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Personally, I'm intrigued by her statement that "With it I'll be very strong, stronger in the Power than before I was taken." about a page after she said that she wasn't as strong as she used to be, even with the Angreal. Confusing.

 

Um, no she didn't.

 

Thanks for the polite and constructive reply. That really helped clarify things.

 

What else is there to say? She didn't say that. What am I supposed to show you? It's a simple either/or thing.

 

 

Which one, she said that she wasn't as strong in the power as she used to be and she also said that she'll be stronger in the power.

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Personally, I'm intrigued by her statement that "With it I'll be very strong, stronger in the Power than before I was taken." about a page after she said that she wasn't as strong as she used to be, even with the Angreal. Confusing.

 

Um, no she didn't.

 

Thanks for the polite and constructive reply. That really helped clarify things.

 

What else is there to say? She didn't say that. What am I supposed to show you? It's a simple either/or thing.

 

Quoth Moiraine:

 

"Without this angreal, I wouldn't be strng enough to be raised Accepted in the White Tower."

 

...

 

"But with it I'll be very strong, stronger in the Power than before I was taken."

 

-- MoL, A Rabbit for Supper, p. 826

 

-- dwn

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