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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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Yes, you're right. Her only thought these days is 'how can I use her/him/them?'. Including the Kin, the One Power, the dragons, and everything else. I liked Elayne up till this book, but now I really want to see her knocked down. Aes Sedai are Servants of ALL. Not just Andor. This is why I really am opposed to Sisters being Queens, always have been. But I thought Egwene would keep Elayne in check at least. Now it seems Egwene herself is too pre-occupied with reeling in power herself.

 

The 'I can use this' seems to have become a general MO for the few Aes Sedai I actually liked up to this point. I can just hope that Moiraine won't turn out to be that way or I'll have no one but Cadsuane left to admire.

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I felt the whole "Oh I'm going to pose as a Forsaken!" Was the slap down she's been needing for awhile now. I know she's 16, but damn she needs to have better back up. I loved the plan to take out the Gholam, because THATS how you plan something. Elayne needs to be more cautious.

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I disliked Elayne so much in this book that I am afraid of posting lest I throw coarse language around too much :p Needless to say, I was rooting for Davod Hanlon when he had stabbed her, and that is not a good sign when you want a murderer/rapist/general low life to succeed in killing a main character :P

 

I really wish perrin did want the throne of Andor, just so he could destroy her.

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I know she's 16

 

i thought she was 18. Or 19.

 

YEah I think she started at 16 in tEofW and is now 18. Still fairly young.

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I actually thought that pretending to be a Forsaken was pretty clever and much more sensible than many of the things that Rand, Mat and Perrin got up to throughout the books. I mean, even in ToM Perrin tried to attack the Slayer before he had any chance of winning. Good that Hopper was there to stop him, eh? Anyway, the plan was alright, putting it into action without any backup was not.

 

And yes, unlike Perrin, Elayne has to actually work at getting people to follow her. For Perrin, Pattern did 95% of the work. Without that, he'd have been a complete disaster. Ahem.

 

Not a great admirer of Elayne's and her succession storyline was largely unnecessary (Morgase could have just returned and retaken the throne books ago, with Rand's backing, IMHO), but it is ridiculous to belittle her just because she is unlucky compared to ta'veren.

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I've been in love with Elayne since the start, but I was a bit disturbed by her in this book.

 

Feeling a desire to execute Perrin? She's met Perrin before, she should know that our guys wouldn't do something like that if there wasn't a really good reason for it. It's not like the throne has cared for the Two Rivers in the last 100 years...

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I actually loved Elayne's arc. We finally saw her step into the role of Queen of Andor. Every decision and deal she made (with Perrin, with Mat, with the Kin and with the Cairhien nobles) were for the best of her people and nation.

 

However, she still caries that foolish streak in which she thinks she always has to be on the front lines (i.e with the Black Ajah)

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If she'd wanted to execute him, she would have tried.

 

All she was doing was acquainting him with the fact that, as Queen of Andor, it was her duty to execute those who rebel against the throne. Whether that's what Perrin meant to do or not, that's what had happened.

 

She got rather creative at finding a way not to even have to try to execute him, with the whole Steward of the Two Rivers under the Dragon Reborn thing, too.

 

Elayne is doing a pretty good job of picking her way through the minefield of what her duty as Queen requires, what being Aes Sedai requires, what becoming a mother requires, and what winning at Tarmon Gaidon requires.

 

Yes, she's made a mistake or two, but so has everyone else, including much older and supposedly wiser characters.

Edited by Bob T Dwarf
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The amazing thing was how few pages it took to go from "I'm going to become Queen of Cairhien" to "I'm now Queen of Cairhien". The masters of game of houses just folded like made of cards. Granted if she had to hold on to it for long it might end up a problem, but I think she can probably manage the couple of days the world has left before last battle.

 

But if I recall right, she hasn't seen Perrin since they were all in the Stone, and at that point they weren't really interacting. (she too busy smooching Rand, Perrin too busy with Faile) It should probably have occurred to her more that executing Rand's friend would be bad mojo, but since we don't get the scene from her PoV, we don't know how much she's bluffing.

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Elayne went back and forth for me in this book. On the one hand, I liked the way that she was trying to make Andor as strong and secure as possible to both be able to help Rand in the Last Battle and counter the Seanchan in the post-LB world, but on the other hand, given the number of times that she's been captured because of her idiocy, did she not figure that maybe going down alone to meet with the BA might not have been a good idea? Also, why were those BA's there anyways? Either execute them for being Darkfriends or toss them up to the Tower where there's more Aes Sedai to deal with them. It seems silly to just have them sitting around with a couple of people holding shields on them when she's personally seen how the Shadow sends people into dungeons to kill off captured BA members.

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Elayne went back and forth for me in this book. On the one hand, I liked the way that she was trying to make Andor as strong and secure as possible to both be able to help Rand in the Last Battle and counter the Seanchan in the post-LB world, but on the other hand, given the number of times that she's been captured because of her idiocy, did she not figure that maybe going down alone to meet with the BA might not have been a good idea? Also, why were those BA's there anyways? Either execute them for being Darkfriends or toss them up to the Tower where there's more Aes Sedai to deal with them. It seems silly to just have them sitting around with a couple of people holding shields on them when she's personally seen how the Shadow sends people into dungeons to kill off captured BA members.

 

 

Because miss 'I'm so smart and powerful and all should bow to me now' always thinks she knows best, always is convinced she's better and stronger than others and always acts like a spoiled brat that wants her way (ever since she arrived in Andor to take the throne, I actually liked her better as Accepted). It's the same thing over and over again: arrogance. Nevermind how many lives and souls she risks, so long as she gets her way.

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The thing that stood out to me was how Elayne was working to prepare Andor for after the Last Battle. Building a strong alliance of nations, developing weaponry, securing healers and Travelling, even considering how to fold the Black Tower into her plans. All of those things will be useful for fighting the Shadow, but will be absolutely crucial when dealing with the Seanchan threat.

 

I was particularly impressed at how she acknowledged to herself that Rand may not survive.

 

I quite liked her Forsaken impersonation plan. What I didn't like is how the perfect timing of their escape foiled it. It felt contrived, to me. I'm also a bit puzzled why Elayne hadn't turned over the Black Sisters to the Tower. I think that situation could have been handled better with more graceful writing.

 

-- dwn

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Because miss 'I'm so smart and powerful and all should bow to me now' always thinks she knows best, always is convinced she's better and stronger than others and always acts like a spoiled brat that wants her way (ever since she arrived in Andor to take the throne, I actually liked her better as Accepted). It's the same thing over and over again: arrogance. Nevermind how many lives and souls she risks, so long as she gets her way.

 

Sorry, but that's misreading how her character is written. She's doing what she sees as her duty and getting precious little enjoyment out of it.

 

She's a major character in the battle for all of existence. Everything she does or does not do risks lives and souls. The decisions she makes, those she defers, all kill people at this point.

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Because miss 'I'm so smart and powerful and all should bow to me now' always thinks she knows best, always is convinced she's better and stronger than others and always acts like a spoiled brat that wants her way (ever since she arrived in Andor to take the throne, I actually liked her better as Accepted). It's the same thing over and over again: arrogance. Nevermind how many lives and souls she risks, so long as she gets her way.

 

Sorry, but that's misreading how her character is written. She's doing what she sees as her duty and getting precious little enjoyment out of it.

 

She's a major character in the battle for all of existence. Everything she does or does not do risks lives and souls. The decisions she makes, those she defers, all kill people at this point.

 

granted that, but that doesn't mean she needs to go 'looking' for idiotic ways to get even MORE people killed. She's gotten in to situations where she needed to be hauled out by the scruff of her neck by others to prevent her death how many times now? Three? Four? How many times do you need to run head first in to a wall before considering it might be prudent to use a different tactic to get to the other side? Once? If that is an indication of her supposed intellect, Andor is quite royally screwed.

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granted that, but that doesn't mean she needs to go 'looking' for idiotic ways to get even MORE people killed. She's gotten in to situations where she needed to be hauled out by the scruff of her neck by others to prevent her death how many times now? Three? Four? How many times do you need to run head first in to a wall before considering it might be prudent to use a different tactic to get to the other side? Once? If that is an indication of her supposed intellect, Andor is quite royally screwed.

 

For all her primness and refined upbringing, Elayne is actually a lot like Mat. She likes adventure, dives headfirst into danger, and tends to buck convention at any opportunity. Out of all the major female characters, Elayne is definitely the rogue. She just doesn't have Mat's luck to get her out of trouble.

 

(I actually think Tuon is a lot like this as well, but she has far more practice in controlling her outward demeanour.)

 

-- dwn

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Regardless of how much sense Elayne's actions make, they did grate on me quite a bit in this book.

 

I love Birgitte, so it's really irritating to me to see Elayne constantly dismissing the word of the woman she was essentially responsible for completely screwing over. If she'd just pay Birgitte the common courtesy of actually taking the advice of the immeasurably old and experienced war hero, I might like her more. For example? Impersonating a Forsaken was fine as a plan, but she should have talked to Birgitte or the palace Aes Sedai and gotten backup in place first. No reason not to.

 

It's the fact that she spurns the advice of the people trying to protect her when she charges off, not that she charges off, that irritates me.

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I didn't care all that much about the forsaken impersonation plan, though I was wondering why they were still holding these people AGAIN for some strange reason. Really, how many times are you going to hold them, get nowhere interrogating them, and then have them get rescued?

 

What annoyed me to no end to the point that I wanted to throw the entire book away was that she was doing everything she could to strengthen Andor, and NOTHING to work on the last battle. The end of reality is near, with your dearest almost-husband going off to fight it and you are not working at all to get your country ready, to get your people ready, or to help with the battle. You are using the chaos to try to expand your personal influence. Elayne turned into one of those ridiculous Tairen High Lords that we all despised in book 4 for playing politics while the world was burning, except she is WORSE because the world is *actually* burning now and she is still playing politics.

 

Seeing her thoughts made it so much worse because she was always thinking of how we could make sure that Andor was as strong as possible, not once that I recall in thinking how we could make the world survive. Sadly, I was also hoping that she did not fare so well in the dungeons in the same way that I was rooting against potato-faced Torean.

 

I was never an Elayne hater until this book. Her plotline bored me, but I had faith that there was a purpose to it all. Now, I am rooting for Camelyn to burn and for her horse to rear and throw her to the ground, knocking her into an unreversable coma.

Edited by Fel
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Ya, the Forsaken impersonation plan wasn't a particularly bad plan and it did somewhat get the results she wanted. The problem, however, is that she just wandered off and did it herself on the spur of the moment as opposed to putting some minor element of thought into it.

 

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the clear sky above Camelyn is because of Elayne and not Mat? Tear had the same thing before Rand came back and it was only Min in the city, so it may be be due to Rand's warders being in those cities and not because of taver'en being there.

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Ya, the Forsaken impersonation plan wasn't a particularly bad plan and it did somewhat get the results she wanted. The problem, however, is that she just wandered off and did it herself on the spur of the moment as opposed to putting some minor element of thought into it.

 

Indeed. Pretty clever plan but:"I´ve got a warder who has saved me before. Ah, she is away, time to go put myself in danger".

 

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the clear sky above Camelyn is because of Elayne and not Mat? Tear had the same thing before Rand came back and it was only Min in the city, so it may be be due to Rand's warders being in those cities and not because of taver'en being there.

 

I was wondering about that too. Perrin didn´t have clear skies as far as i recall. Did Aviendha?

 

 

Also, if Elayne had entertained the idea of switching Mat´s medallion for a copy for one second longer...

Erm, i would like to make a meaningful threat, but she is a made up character, so i can´t really threaten her with anything. But you get the idea.

Edited by waffle
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*thinks of the 18 year olds in our world* Imagine one of those in charge of a nation..... *shudders*

Sometimes, there's nothing more funny than the truth lol.

 

I'm not a big fan of Elayne after this either. In the past, she has shown wisdom beyond her years, but like others have said, the whole forsaken impersonation plan was pretty weak. "HAY!! I have a great idea!!! Nevermind the fact that I'm pregnant and haven't taken the time to actually make a plan. I'm going now!!!" I know she has Min's viewings and all, but still...

 

One thing I've tried to keep in mind though; Throughout the entire series every character has made choices and acted as if they were on an island. No one ever thinks to ask anyone else for any info, or really bothers to consider how it may effect their allies. Is Elayne arrogant? Yes. She did grow up as a princess in a palace after all. She's used to the world bending to please her. Should she be condemned completely because of it? No. She has consistently throughout the series actually been concerned with the well being of others.

 

This book has seen Nynaeve basically brought down a peg or two. Let's hope the last one does the same for Elayne and Egwene. Not completely beaten down, but more in a way that forces them to consider that they don't always know best.

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Ya, the Forsaken impersonation plan wasn't a particularly bad plan and it did somewhat get the results she wanted. The problem, however, is that she just wandered off and did it herself on the spur of the moment as opposed to putting some minor element of thought into it.

 

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the clear sky above Camelyn is because of Elayne and not Mat? Tear had the same thing before Rand came back and it was only Min in the city, so it may be be due to Rand's warders being in those cities and not because of taver'en being there.

 

Well the Plan was actually Brilliant. And without the totally unforeseeable breakout attempt, it would have succeeded far beyond that what she did achieve. After talking with the first Capitive and learning things until the Captive became Suspicous or started to lie, she could have gone to the next captive and used her gained Knowledge to do a better Job at impersonating and get more Details sort out the Lies.

Sadly Min´s foretelling and everybody treating her like she is made out of delicate Glass, has made her stubborn. She is used to protecting herself and does not understand why Protection is needed. I liked how the Knife wound and her almost dying made her a bit more reasonable.

 

Would have liked it if Hanlon would have given her a scar along with some grouping. Using the scar for marking her as his and having one of the Blakajah heal it so that it could not be healed again. Would make her a bit more scared of him and jumping at shadows. Now it seems like she has forgotten him already.

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