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Nakomi

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None of the Verin = Nakomi fanciers have given reasonable answers to these questions.

Agreed. Even the suggestion that she might've used a Finder on the ring ter'angreal (we don't know that whatever material it's made of can hold it for long, BTW) falls apart when we recall Moiraine's experience in TEotW -- a Finder is person-specific, in addition to being object-specific. She'd have to weave that Finder with Aviendha in mind, and she'd have to do so back in TDR (in short, it's impossible).

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Yes, let's have a few Verin chapters in CoS and PoD of her asking about Aiel foods, clothes and mannerisms. There's a reason no one bothers to answer that question :)

 

Actually, let's go with that, forgot Verin met Avi face to face at all (except as Nakomi). She channeled in a Stedding, she's even more awesome than we thought.

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She channeled in a Stedding, she's even more awesome than we thought.

 

?

 

Are you talking about when she could tell the ogier had no soul by how he felt to the touch(which required no channeling) or am I forgetting something else?

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He must be. Verin never channeled in a stedding, and indeed has only been seen or referenced to be in a stedding once in the entire series, and that was the incident with the Ogier without a soul.

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Oh, the one who went into the ways? I thought that you guys were saying the entire race of Ogier had no souls. Thank you

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When was this no soul thing?

 

In tGH when they visit the stedding, an Ogier who ran afoul of Machin Shin is brought out to illuminate the dangers of travelling the Ways. Verin touches him, and declares he has no soul--many mistook this for the idea that Verin Delved him (checked his health with the Power). She didn't, she just touched him. Soullessness can be detected by touch because it leaves the person's body feeling cold in a very distinct way--we learn this in Winter's Heart when Perrin was hunting for Faile and entered the Wolf Dream too deeply. Annoura shows Berelain, and Berelain explains it to Perrin.

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Avi doesn't know TAR, she knows of it and has visited it, but to say she knows it to the extent that the Nakomi meeting couldn't be in TAR because she would notice is wrong.

Slayer knows TAR, but he falls into a nightmare and doesn't realize it. We also see Egwene almost pulled into a trap by Moghedien, and only able to resist because of her remarkable talent. Aviendha doesn't have that.

There's quite a difference between entering a nightmare in TAR, which is chiefly something that distorts perception of your surroundings (even experienced Dreamers have trouble with that) and simply being in TAR. The signs are definitely there to be seen, especially at night (suddenly you don't need a light-source to see, and yet it's still night). Aviendha isn't an experienced Dreamer, but she's been going to TAR on a semi-regular basis ever since TSR. To suggest she wouldn't have noticed... well, I'm highly skeptical.

 

BTW it might work better if you suggest she's been pulled into someone else's dreams -- or manipulated in her own dreams. That way you can do away with these problems, and all you need is the assumption that Nakomi is skilled enough to pull this off.

 

 

I agree that it being a non-TAR dream is easier to explain, but I still think TAR works as long as she was pulled in deliberately, and didn't dream herself randomly. We've never seen it done for sure, but Egwene describes it and makes it seem very powerful, in ACOS Chapter 10:

 

Or, with a hooking sort of motion, like rolling a fragile bead across a tabletop, she could snatch Nynaeve out, into a dream of her own making, a part of Tel'aran'rhiod itself, where she was in complete control. She was sure that would work. Of course, that was one of the forbidden things, and she did not think Nynaeve would appreciate it.
So I figure a Dreamwalker can first do that, then distort the victim's perceptions and make them feel it's a normal dream. We've never seen that work either, but we did see Moghedien try it on Egwene. I prefer the TAR explanations because the food seemed to actually nourish Aviendha. Although in TSR Wise Ones mention entering others dreams to "aid healing", so perhaps that works in normal dreams as well.

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We've never seen that work either

We might've, in TEotW and TGH. Thanks for that, I hadn't realized a Dreamer can shape a part of TAR to be under his complete control, then drag someone into it (and I wonder if the person dragged in really has no influence there, if they're strong-willed; a scene where Rand was able to escape Ishamael by acknowledging the Dream comes to mind).

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The more I think about it the more Nakomi is likely just some invention of Brandon Sanderson that doesn't fit in the story anywhere. If we're lucky we'll get a half assed explanation that kind of fits, but I'm thinking most likely we aren't going to get anything and we are going to be left to assume it is just a "ghost" or something.

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Wow this post has taken a long time to get through! And all that's happened is that I think that every possible has been eliminated (which should leave the impossible, except that's been eliminated too ;) )

 

Difficult to know how to approach this, but here goes nothing...

 

Either we have to assume that Nakomi had no way of knowing what would happen at Rhuidean or she did.

 

If she didn't then the outcome of the scene would appear to have Avi going back to the WO and arguing that they should stay in the Wetlands, with the outcome that we've seen of them being destroyed. Problem with this is that I don't see who has motive or ability. Non Aiel dark friends wouldn't know enough to pass the scene off, Aiel darkfriends would have to be thinking short term. The forsaken, would possibly have enough knowledge to pull it off, but why? Either at the Last Battle the Dark One wins, which I understood to mean that it's game over, no more wheel. Or the Light wins, in which case it's 7 more ages until the next Last Battle, there aren't going to be any communities/groups/clans that survive that long regardless of interference, which means it seems kind of petty (not to the Aiel) and vindictive. That's not to say that they couldn't be petty and vindictive, but this close to the LB?

 

If she did know then the range of suspects becomes smaller (need fore-telling).

  • Egwene, would have other things to think about and it's not mentioned anywhere in her storyline.
  • Verin, has no known dreamer ability (but I'll come back to Verin)
  • the Forsaken, again I struggle with the why?
  • the Wise Ones, difficult to argue with this on the face of it.
  • Avi (sort of) no dreaming ability, but has seen many futures from the rings, could be subconscious remembering this from the dreams and reminding her of it in time to do the thing at Rhuidean and see the future... Quite convoluted tho.
  • Elaida, Nicola, others - no connection to Avi, nor any real connection to anyone that has a connection to Avi, so why?

If we then consider the people who have the ability to find her it becomes even more interesting.

  • Finding her physically would be difficult. Rand could (but wouldn't right now). The Wise Ones know her general location, so they could find her. I don't think they're likely to inform someone else.
  • Finding her in dreamland (not T'A'R') is even more difficult, the Wise Ones could, not sure about Eg, as I don't recall her doing it, although she has found Nyn and El (but again very unlikely).
  • Assuming she got there herself, then anyone who knows her well enough to find her. The WO would definitely be keeping an eye on her as much as they could (on a side note, do we know she has it with her? I think the WO would forbid her to take it if they did know, as the 'resonance' between the columns and the ring could be fatal), so it seems plausible that she fell asleep with the ring, the Wise Ones noticed and took advantage.
  • If she didn't get there herself, then someone forced her. Again I doubt that Verin had the skill required, even if she did still have access to T'A'R' (which is a long way from proven). The Wise Ones wouldn't, they consider it evil (likewise they wouldn't enter her own dream as it would be dangerous to them), and at this stage there are several options open to them if it became so urgent that they had to talk to her, they could physically go to her. Talking to her at all violates tradition, but I don't think they'd go so far as to do something they consider evil.

Overall it seems to me to be a bit to vague to be any of the Wise Ones we've encountered so far. Equally well, some of the words seem off, they know she's on her way to Rhuidean, so isn't a WO yet, so why start off by calling her one? Could be a Shaido WO (dreamer, not channeler), presumably not all of them were evil or stupid (most proved themselves capable of withstanding Rhuidean), she also gave another motive to why some wouldn't follow Rand that seems more sympathetic to the Shaido then anything we've had from 'Rands' Aiel so far, would also explain 'calls himself...'

 

Some of the other options I've read on the board include

  • Ghosts - have been used several times so far, to get Mat into position, to help establish Egs authority in the Tower. However assuming that Avis timeline is running somewhat close to Egs before she united Tower then, ghosts have so far been unable to interact with the living, and I don't see any way for them to know current events.
  • Hero of the Horn (or other T'A'R' character - impossible to disprove, but seems unlikely
  • Jenn Aiel - stretches coincidence a long way (she's not taverin). Additionally difficult to see how they've survived, If in rhuidean then what did they do when the water ran out? If in a secret society then how do they know enough of current events to know where to find Avi. If a secret sept among the Aiel, then they're no longer Jenn. That doesn't discount the posibility of a message being passed down generation to generation in a way similar to the Borderlanders, but by this stage that Aiel with the message are no longer Jenn (possibly an issue of semantics, but one I think is important - witness Rands trip though the pillars and the way the fighters were thrown out and completely ignored after they'd killed - from semantics if they hadn't then they too wouldn't be Jenn, (not sure of a clear way to explain this, but hopefully that will do)).
  • Secret message passed down through Aiel - can't rule this one out :)
  • Verin - Herid (many, many posts ago provided a link which) wrote a very good explanation of a possible timeline that makes it impossible for Verin to have been able to physically travel to Avi, although there do seem to be several errors, or discontinuities in timelines (as Herid also points out). Additionally I don't see her motive. Yes she cares about the future, but when would she have had the time to research all this, theorise ahead... The first time the Seanchan pop their heads up as a possible problem is the end of the Great Hunt, and I'm not sure that Verin ever gets enough opportunity to understand their culture well enough, or if despite the time spent with the Aiel as an apprentice she'd understand the Aiel culture well enough to work out the future implications of a world post LB... Plus her actions are all to do with fighting the Dark One, as I've stated earlier what happens in the Age after the LB is unlikely to effect the Dark One (or at least there's nothing I'm aware of that we know of from the next Age (other than what the WO may glean from teh rings and can remember, and now what Avi saw in Rhuidean).
  • the Creator - has been stated that the Creator will take no part, open to debate about with ending of EotW (but not on this thread), seems unlikely, but can't disprove.
  • A spirit Guide - Could be, story seems to have set it up quite well, in terms of events, but hasn't been used as a plot device yet and would seem disappointing (to me) if it was being used now.

So from a personal PoV the most likely is 'inner Avi' or a WO (I think more likely to be a Shaido WO then one we know, but wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't).

 

 

EDIT to add,

 

I think I'm now leaning towards inner Avi, later on in the same book there's a similar thing with Eg, where her inner Eg says 'I am AS' and gives her will-power to resist a'dam.

Edited by BFG

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I am just going through my re-read preparing for Jan, and I have always been stumped by Nakomi.

 

 

I did not read the entire thread, and I apologize if my arguments have been made, but I have a theory.

 

 

First, I believe Nakomi is Aiel. It would take too long for anyone else to know them to the level she seems to know them, even down to their way of speaking. She wears the Cadin'sor, and even cooks like Avi's own mother. She also possesses a firm understanding of ji-e-toh, something a wetlander would have a hard time faking.

 

 

Second, I believe that Avi is in T'A'R, either having a dream, or pulled in by Nakomi (who I am assuming is a DW). The reason I think it is the dream is because of the coals in the fire, and time to cook the food was much less than was necessary. I am waiting to read some more, but I am curious if Avi has enough water to get to Rhuidean. she thinks she does not have enough, and I do not remember if it mentions that she stopped for more.

 

 

Third, her strange response when Avi asks where she is going, and which sept is her own. her response:

 

 

"I am far from my roof," the woman said, wistful, "yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."

 

 

Avi is very confused by this response, and it does not seem to have a purpose for aviendha to hear her say this (I think this statements only purpose was to foreshadow for us). due to her failure to understand it is why I do not think this is a figment of Avi's mind.

 

 

Fourth, she obviously has some purpose in speaking with Avi, and she concentrates on making Avi see the great toh her people have when they committed violence. Once she accomplished that, she focused on convincing her about what the aiel should do. it almost seems like she is trying to talk her back into being the Aiel of the AOL again, or at least start her mind thinking that way.

 

 

Fifth, Nakomi talks in great detail about the Aiel's past, I do believe she has been to rhuidean either that, or has access to another source of this information.

 

 

 

but first a summary, of what I will consider "basis" for my theory.

1) Nakomi is Aiel.

2) The encounter happens in TAR.

3) Nakomi has been through rhuidean, OR has received that knowledge somehow

4) This is not Avi's sub-conscious

5) Nakomi has an ulterior motive to make the aiel return to pacifistic ways

 

 

 

Therefore, I believe Nakomi to be Jenn Aiel. But, this raises several problems. Where are they? where have they been?

 

 

I am not sure if they are hiding with the Aiel society somewhere, but I honestly believe there is another clan hiding somewhere in the waste that no one has ever found. I think their home is hidden somehow (perhaps those AS on litters created a hold for them, and hid the entrance permanently). (I am basing this on her response from Avi's ? on where she is going, and what her clan was)

 

 

I believe they have their own WO who went to Rhuidean. I also believe they watched the other Aiel's dreams, and even influenced them, this is how they have kept up to date with the goings on in the world.

 

 

How did she meet with Avi? why prophecy, of course. I believe they had their own prophecy to look for an apprentice wise one going to rhuidean when the last days come.

 

 

Finally, I have another thought about the columns and what Avi sees. As others have said, I do not believe this is part of the columns. I believe this is put there by Nakomi. I think she wants to try to convince Avi that fighting will lead to the end of the Aiel, in the hopes that Avi will convince the Aiel that their only course of action will be to put down their spears after the LB...

Edited by rm1759

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Maybe nakomi is a projection of the columns. Avi mentions that they feel alive, the columns are incomprehensible to her, vast like the one power. 

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This is my first post on here so bear with me.

 

I've thought about it for some time and racked my brain, but during one of my re-reads an idea came to me, maybe it is farfetched, but I thought that it was a good idea with some evidence, though small, that brought me to this possibility on who Nakomi is.

 

I believe that Nakomi is none other than Aviendha herself.  I know that thought is out there but hear me out.  I first thought about something unique about aviendha during one of my re-reads of path of daggers.  When the gang, along with windfinders and the kin where leaving Ebou Dar.  Aviendha created the gatway but seem to have trouble weaving it.  I believe she struggles so much with that weave because she can effect time as well as travle.

 

"'We’re safe and in a few hours we will reach the Kin’s farm, we’ll use the Bowl, and the world will be right again.' Well, somewhat. The sun seemed lower than it had in the stable yard, but she knew that was only imagination. For once, they had gained a clear jump on the Shadow." -Elain

 

The Path of Daggers, Unweaving

 

I believe that Nakomi is Aviendha only older and has mastered the weave to travel through time.  She decides to travel to Aviendha to speak to her about the future of the Aiel because she knows what will happen if something isn't done to stop the furture that Aviendha sees in the glass pillars.  During the conversation that Aviendha had with Nakomi there were a few things from the exchanged that made me feel as though Aviendha felt some recognition of Nakomi.

 

I will write a few of the exchanges Aviendha had with Nakomi that led me to this conclusion.

 

"Nakomi stirred the tea, then repositioned Aviendha's shellback, placing it over the coals to cook it more evenly.  From inside her pack, she drew forth several deepearth roots.  Aviendha's mother had always cooked those."  ToM -In The Three-Folds Land-

 

Seems something odd to be placed in that passage, something that Nakomi does that brings Avidendha some recognition from her past.  Another one.

 

Aviendha said.  "Tell me, Nakomi, where is it you travel?  Which sept is your own?"  "I am far from my roof," the woman said, wistful, "yet not far at all.  Perhaps it is far from me.  I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."  ToM -In The Three-Folds Land-

 

This makes sense, she is not far from her home geographically, but time-wise, she is far from it.

 

Who is this woman?  It is not unsusual to find Aiel traveling the Waste; even children learned to protect themselves, But should Nakomi not be traveling with friends, family?  She did not wear the clothing of a Wise One, but there was something about her......... -Aviendha-  ToM -In The Three-Folds Land-

 

Again Aviendha has a itchy feeling about Nakomi.

 

 

So I believe that the purpose of Aviendha traveling back in time to speak to herself was to get Aviendha thinking about the very thing she ends up being faced with at the glass pillars, what to do with the Aiel after the last battle.  From what Nakomi said, the key is in the Aiel not returning to the Three-Folds Land because they have already met their toh, they would have no other purpose and this would eventually lead to them being at war with the Shaunchan.  Aviendha will need to find another purpose for her people.  I read some posts that suggest she is a DF, but during the whole exchange, Nakomi is trying to get Aviendha to accept that fact that the Aiel were only in the Three-Folds Land to prepare them for the return of the Dragon and the Last Battle, now that their toh has been met, returning to the Three-Folds Land is senseless.  There was also parts during their interaction, where time seemed to pass faster than Aviendha thought it should, the food getting cooked faster that she thought, and coals appearing from no where already warming the area.

 

Well thats all I have, hope my first post was okay.

 

 

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@rlcursoe26 An interesting theory. The idea that Avi can make  time Traveling gateways has actually been around for a while. You might want to check out this link.  I don't want to start debating it again (there is a good discussion in the comments to that link) but I do want to mention that there is some stuff in the  already released part of AMOL that may be relevant.

 

Namely, it's revealed that the name Nakomi is very old and has not been used in a long time. So how would Avi know about it?

 

This is best discussed on the AMOL spoiler forum though. Perhaps this whole thread should be moved there?

Edited by herid

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As long as we're guessing:

 

Nakomi is a channeler from the age if legends or possibly the breaking. Through a foretelling she knows that Aviendha is important to the world's future. She uses a portal stone to travel into the future where she meets Aviendha.

 

Okay, maybe not likely... But I always wondered about the possibility of a good guy from the age of legends showing up via a clever portal stone trick.

 

 

I do think the idea of Aviendha's portal weave allowing time travel to be interesting, I hadn't heard of it before. I always assumed since Aviendha had trouble with the normal weave that it had to be very similar, like perhaps not requiring you to know the area well. But now that I think on it, it does seem awfully quick for people from Falme to have reached Seanchan again.

Edited by Dastion

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My thoughts on Nakomi are three possibilities:

 

1) She's someone bound to the wheel, one of the heros of the horn. Her interactions with Aviendha were in the world of Dreams (Aviendha had fallen alseep at the campfire) .....just like Birgitte interacted with Nyneave and Elaine. Her knowledge of the Aiel could have been easily gleaned by watching the wise ones for as long as she needed. She is also the mystery "maybe Aiel" woman who tells Rand what he needs to do in the final chapter of the book. She's able to be in the world of the flesh because of the recent sounding of the Horn.

 

2) All of the above, but instead of a hero of the horn, she's an deceased wiseone dream walker who is somehow able to touch the world of dreams as well. Perhaps 'bound to the wheel' in some fashion, but not bound to the horn. Or maybe so well versed in the world of dreams that she's able to find her way back from wherever regular souls go before rebirth ....to the world of dreams.  Perhaps the wise one that had long died but was revered by so many of the other wise ones as a legend (my brain is throwing up "Remind me to tell you how Mara moved a mountain"...but its late. And I can't really remember her name).

 

3) That it has something to do with the Ter'angreal in the Rhuidean. As if that terangreal somehow touches the place where souls go to rest or touches a crossroads of all possible worlds. Or...that the Ter'angreal was made around a living soul (souls) One of the Jenn Aiel or ancient Aes Sedai that knew the Aiel very well. Or perhaps many, many Jenn Aiel...and this was the reason that they dwindled. Aviendha's going through the rings twice somehow called Nakomi to her.  Freed her, or perhaps triggered a prophecied event that told the contained soul that it was time to emerge and help...most likely in the WoD. Having been intregal to the 'look through your ancestors eyes' ter'angreal, this person would have a special insight into the lines of fate (perhaps in a way similar to Rand during his battle with the DO) and of the future. Perhaps even exactly like the 'pipe lighting'...if its not the WOD but the real world.

 

 

Just my thoughts.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
spoilers

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The Ghost of Tigraine.

 

Feels familiar to Aviendha. That is because Rand has some of her looks.

 

Far and near her roof at the same time. She has two, Caemlyn and the Three Fold Land.

 

Bound to the wheel. I should think that the mother of the Dragon could apply for this, right?

 

 

 

Helps Rand after the Battle against the Dark One. Nakomi only shows up to Aviendha and Rand. Her son, and her aiel daughter in law.

 

She is aiel, but at the same time she is a wetlander, so she could understand the problem the whole aiel will face after the Last Battle because she has a wider point of view. Affects Aviendha so Avi can change that future. How? Giving the aiel a new goal: Guardians of the Peace of the Dragon.

 

 

Edited by BFG
aMoL spoilers

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Oh man, it's very sad for me to have recently finished the series and see how many of these threads have been dormant for a couple of years. :(

 

I quite like that theory Kageryuu, it fits reasonably well with my own theory and in fact I may combine the two.

So this thread is 30 pages long and I haven't read everything, and given how many Nakomi theories there seem to be I am sure this isn't original but it's what I think at the mo:

 

We've seen throughout the series the man/woman duality in the universe, most obviously through the different aspects fo the One Power that they channel. So there always seems to be a balance.  And yet the Dragon reborn is a man.  So my theory is that the Wheel spins someone else out into the Pattern, a woman whose role is also vital, not necessarily to save the world as Rand's but to save certain people, to nudge the Pattern the way it should go rather than grabbing the Pattern by the scruff of the neck the way that Rand seems to. I would also argue that she perhaps has the same power that Rand has at the end of the epilogue - which is why Avi is so confused about what she sees.  

 

I think her role when appearing to Avi was to put doubts in Avi's mind such that Avi would enter the glass things again and see the destruction of the Aiel, and by seeing it be able to prevent it - which I believe she does by getting the Aiel to become Randland's superpolice.  

 

Then she appears again (imo, but unconfirmed) to save Rand after defeating the Dark Lord. By saving Rand she is effectively saving her replacement, a figure spun out by the Pattern who can alter the Pattern itself. The problem I have here is that this sort of implies that Rand will live to the end of the 4th Age and play a Nakomi role in whatever LB/Breaking style event happens then. Which I don't think will happen and doesn't fit into what I believe happens in the 4th Age. This part of the theory (rand as Nakomi's replacement) I am not very happy with and doesn't make that much sense.   Which is where Kageryuu's theory could come in. Perhaps Tigraine was indeed woven back into the Pattern, in order to save her adopted people and her son. She would certainly have the motivation for it.  Either way, I am personally convinced that Nakomi is a force for the LIght and do not agree with any of the DF/Forsaken theories at all.

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@Iwwear Well Egwene might count as the female balance.   always thought she was made a bit too powerful to sort of be an equal to Rand and by dying she does sort of help Rand win.

 

I like Kageryuu's theory, it makes a lot of sense.  though my big issues with it would be: does the mother of the dragon need to be bound.  I would think there is nothing to say one needs to  be special to give birth to the dragon.  Wouldn't being bound make it so she is the same person to give birth to him over and over?

She could be Jenn Aiel, so the near and yet far could mean Rhuidean  and the land outside of the waste that they fled.  Since as a Jenn she could of lived in both.

Why the name Nakomi?

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