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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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I loved the construction of Perrin's new toy,

I love that it's name mimics the name of Thor's hammer.

I like that Perrin has finally seemed to have his 'epiphany.'

now that he's stopped whining, he's become a good character again.

 

That's because it is Thor's Hammer. Perrin is Thor - the same way Mat is Odin and Rand is Tyr.

 

This would imply that Mat dies via a Darkhound or Wolf of some kind.

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I loved the construction of Perrin's new toy,

I love that it's name mimics the name of Thor's hammer.

I like that Perrin has finally seemed to have his 'epiphany.'

now that he's stopped whining, he's become a good character again.

 

That's because it is Thor's Hammer. Perrin is Thor - the same way Mat is Odin and Rand is Tyr.

 

This would imply that Mat dies via a Darkhound or Wolf of some kind.

 

Nah because they aren't exact details. Mat for instance doesn't really have an eight legged horse, but he does have a keen eye for horses. He also doesn't have two ravens called Thought and Memory, but he does have that inscribed on his Ashanderai. The whole legends changing and whatnot.

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There's a hint that things may not all be well with Perrin: that unhealed leg wound (ToM, Gateways, pp. 776-777). This is the wound caused by the arrow that killed Hopper (ToM, Darkness in the Tower, p. 585). Recall that it was healed by Masuri (ToM, Wounds, p. 598), who, with Annoura, was secretly meeting with Masema. Curiously, Edarra once stopped Masuri from healing a maiden of the spear, claiming that the wise one Janina was more skilled (KoD, The Last Knot, p. 628). Why would she not have the most skilled healer work on Perrin now?

 

Yeah I was wondering about that wound myself. Seemed like such a throwaway comment that it instantly made me suspicious. It didnt help that I thought he was going to die basically throughout the entire book :P

 

It's an echo of Vulcan / Hephaestus, who was the 'god of technology, blacksmiths, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metals, metallurgy, fire, and volcanoes', and who, 'like other mythic smiths', was lame.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestus

 

So Perrin is Vulcan/Thor, just as Mat is Odin/Loki, and Rand is Tyr/Arthur.

 

BTW, Tyr lost his hand when Fenrir the wolf bit it off:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyr

Edited by FarShainMael
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One thing that bugged me about Perrin's arc was the slow buildup for it. It was especially apparent when the book's narrative switched back and forth between Ituralde fighting a massive army Trollocs in Maradon and Perrin and Galad pissing around with the stupid little trial. Perrin got awesome towards the end but was mainly filler for the first half of the book.

 

And I agree that the Graendal thing was pointless - why is she alive again? Keep her dead and put Moghidien or someone on this instead of randomly having Graendal live through some overly complex inanity and then ignoring Moggy for another book. Just when they'd started on some decent character development for the latter, they decided to ignore her for the rest of the series.

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This would imply that Mat dies via a Darkhound or Wolf of some kind.

 

 

He already did die to a Darkhound, Rands Bailfire brought him back.

No, he was in the process of dying, when Moiraine Healed him.

The only death he's undergone was in the Caemlyn Palace when balefire did bring him back.

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I can't believe no one else has mentioned this. Did Perrin remind anyone else of Neo during his time in TAR? Those sequences felt very much like the first Matrix movie.

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I can't believe no one else has mentioned this. Did Perrin remind anyone else of Neo during his time in TAR? Those sequences felt very much like the first Matrix movie.

 

No, to be honest it reminded me of Mistborn and the ridiculous jumping around with super powers the characters there did all the time. Felt like a comic book.

 

 

 

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Anyone else think that the "Broken Wolf" of the prophecies will in fact be Slayer? I've always thought that Slayer was a wolf brother of some sort. After ToM, I think that he or the Dark One split his soul in two. Rather than being both a man and a wolf as one complete conciousness, he was "broken" into the Wolfdream in TAR and the real world.

Edited by thebrumble
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Doesn't anyone think that Perrin made a monumental mistake in allowing the Seanchan to chain the Shaido Wise Ones, especially in the light of Aviendha's revelations? It would further allow the Seanchan to learn more about Aiel ways and use those lessons against the Aiel?

 

It was just a short sighted move. Yeah it allowed Perrin to get the Shaido Wise Ones off their back but he could have contacted other clans' Wise Ones and use them to capture the Shaido Wise Ones instead of using the Seanchan suldams.

 

I strongly pray and sincerely hope that the Seanchan gets a huge smackdown and the Aiel will be the one to deliver it. It is called poetic justice.

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Doesn't anyone think that Perrin made a monumental mistake in allowing the Seanchan to chain the Shaido Wise Ones, especially in the light of Aviendha's revelations? It would further allow the Seanchan to learn more about Aiel ways and use those lessons against the Aiel?

 

It was just a short sighted move. Yeah it allowed Perrin to get the Shaido Wise Ones off their back but he could have contacted other clans' Wise Ones and use them to capture the Shaido Wise Ones instead of using the Seanchan suldams.

 

I strongly pray and sincerely hope that the Seanchan gets a huge smackdown and the Aiel will be the one to deliver it. It is called poetic justice.

What could Perrin have done? He didn't have the resources to shield / control 100s of channelers. He needed Seanchan help for an assault because he would have been hopelessly outnumbered without that (even apart from the channelers). He had no guarantee that the Shaido WOs, who had broken toh so many ways would even stick to being Gai'shain.

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Anyone else think that the "Broken Wolf" of the prophecies will in fact be Slayer? I've always thought that Slayer was a wolf brother of some sort. After ToM, I think that he or the Dark One split his soul in two. Rather than being both a man and a wolf as one complete conciousness, he was "broken" into the Wolfdream in TAR and the real world.

 

How would the death of Slayer cause fear and sorrow to men, shaking their very will itself? If the world at-large even knew that something like Slayer existed and then learned it had died, there'd be a party, not wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments.

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Anyone else think that the "Broken Wolf" of the prophecies will in fact be Slayer? I've always thought that Slayer was a wolf brother of some sort. After ToM, I think that he or the Dark One split his soul in two. Rather than being both a man and a wolf as one complete conciousness, he was "broken" into the Wolfdream in TAR and the real world.

 

How would the death of Slayer cause fear and sorrow to men, shaking their very will itself? If the world at-large even knew that something like Slayer existed and then learned it had died, there'd be a party, not wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments.

 

Depends on how he dies? If he's hanged, drawn and quartered by his cousin/ nephew/ nephew, splits into two men and then falls apart while his demise is Youtubed in the sky ala Falme, he'd cause fear and sorrow and shake the wills of the men who are sworn to GLoD.

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Note that the wording of the shadow prophecy does not reveal if it is the destruction of the broken wolf or the destruction by him that causes fear etc.

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Hi, long time follower and this is my second post (the first being just over a year ago).

 

I had a question regarding Greandal's plan for Perrin. In Greandal's POV in the chapter 'Wounds', she hints that she has a backup plan for Perrin as he seemed to have dodged the Trolloc army intended for him.

 

She says to herself that she has one tool left, positioned very carefully. I don't think she was talking about the Trolloc army because moments ago she gave instructions to Slayer to spring the trap anyway, so she knew at least that she wouldn't have a shot at Perrin via the army (although she wouldn't have guessed that Perrin would Travel to confront the army directly).

 

Am I missing something here? I've not seen any posts bringing this up in my searching (and if it has been please point to the post in question). I've read the book thoroughly and I couldn't seem to find any evidence that she has brought her last tool or backup plan to play. I'm guessing this is something that will be addressed in the aMoL, if the SH allows her freedom to do so of course.

 

I had the feeling that it was a DF close to Perrin that would reveal themselves at the right moment. I have my suspicions on Alliandre because I don't think she deserved a POV in the chapter 'Some Tea' unless she would have a greater role to play.

 

Anyway, any thoughts or comments would be welcome!

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Yeah, you´re right.

 

In the epilogue, Graendal thinks that her last tool had failed her. So what the hell happened there? We didn´t see anyone try to off Perrin. Well, apart from thousands of Trollocs, but they seemed to be pretty busy running away from him at some points. Someone got compulsed but Perrins awesomeness did away with it much in the same way that he did away balefire? "Your silly weaves are no match for my badassery"

 

At first i thought Byar. But that didn´t make sense because after Perrin did away with the dreamspike, she had no way of knowing that Byar would have a chance of killing Perrin.

 

I´m thinking Wil. Described as handsome. His bannerman.

 

Or maybe Gaul. He seemed to be around Perrin quite often too. Hope it´s not Gaul. Gaul is cool.

 

Or one of the female channelers.

Edited by waffle
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Missed that sentence in the Epilogue, but just read it again now. So she did deploy her last tool, but who or what was it. I hope it's not Gaul also. I think Byar wasn't a DF, just a pissed Whitecloak.

 

If the tool hasn't been discovered maybe he or she has standing order try again when certain of success.

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Yeah, you´re right.

 

In the epilogue, Graendal thinks that her last tool had failed her. So what the hell happened there? We didn´t see anyone try to off Perrin. Well, apart from thousands of Trollocs, but they seemed to be pretty busy running away from him at some points. Someone got compulsed but Perrins awesomeness did away with it much in the same way that he did away balefire? "Your silly weaves are no match for my badassery"

 

At first i thought Byar. But that didn´t make sense because after Perrin did away with the dreamspike, she had no way of knowing that Byar would have a chance of killing Perrin.

 

I´m thinking Wil. Described as handsome. His bannerman.

 

Or maybe Gaul. He seemed to be around Perrin quite often too. Hope it´s not Gaul. Gaul is cool.

 

Or one of the female channelers.

 

In her last POV, Graendal is ticked at "that fool Isam" and "that idiot Whitecloak" which implies she had managed to coerce Byar into trying to kill Perrin. It's a bit tenuous, in my opinion, but the only thing that really makes sense. Byar has never been all that stable, but he was truly off his rocker in ToM.

 

I get the impression from Graendal's thoughts in 'Wounds' that, after losing the dreamspike, she set the trollocs on the Whitecloaks with the assumption that somehow Perrin's ta'veren nature would draw him into the battle, and thus into Byar's reach.

 

-- dwn

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I know its probably obvious by now, though only a couple of posts I've seen so far even mentioned it. (+I haven't had time to actually post here, even though I finished the book Thursday)

 

But, thinking in D&D terms, a 'power wrought' weapon is Indestructable, can't lose its edge, or durability, Damage is 'slightly' increases, if only because it never dents.

Perrin's Hammer reminds me of a Hammer with +holy on it. ;)

 

We've already know by now, that this new generation of channelers, are developing old, as well as new 'talents'. Power Wrought Weapons, weren't something those in the Age of Legends were probably very 'specialized' at, They probably believed Indestructability was more than enough, having something that specifically 'burns' 'shadow spawn', probably never occurred to them, Let alone a weapon that might possibly become 'lighter/more powerful', to the user when in battle.

 

These people have healed stilling, something the forsaken believed impossible, they've reinvented creating ter'angral and heart stone, The very nature of Perrin, and The sniffer (hurren? Hurin? can't remember) are things 'new' to there age, as we already obviously know, so it Just stands to reason to me, that the Asha'man didn't just create the first new power wrought item, He Improved upon it.

Perhaps 'men' created the weapons in the age of legends, and not 'both' men and women. Rands already talking about using both on the DO's prison.

 

Theres also the possibility that the whole hopper connection with his Hammer, isn't just a Tribute, but an Actual Connection.

In that case, Not only do we get a power wrought weapon with some kind of 'holy' enchant, you got your self hte first ever Sentient Weapon that is Perrins Closest Friend and happens to be a wolf.

 

That Prophechy about the wolf, That has nothing to do with slayer I think, I believe we were to be led to believe that it originally had to do with perrin, and it ended where it did, to show us, that the shadow mis-interperted it. The dead wolf isn't Perrin but the wolf-guy in T'A'R.

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Broken Wolf is the key..

 

just who is he

 

boundless umm toam?? (i think that was his name- doubt it.

 

Perrin? - no

 

Jain/Noal? -- my personal belief is yes, remember in almost every book that has ended with a prophesy, the prophesy was done/over/proven/fulfilled in the book you just read.

 

so i'm betting on him

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Except that only Mat and Thom know it was Noal/Jain, and they aint telling - even Moiraine.

 

So, how is his death supposed to mess with everybody's head and cause them all to lose hope and give up?

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Everyone already thinks that Farstrider is dead. Even if Mat decided to tell people, I cant imagine it would make any difference at all.

 

Mat: So yeah, Jain Farstrider just died heroically

Rand: Wait, wasn't he already dead?

Mat: Nah, but he is now.

Rand: Right. Anyway, lets break some seals! Yeah!

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Well, Mjöllnir... er... I mean, Mah'alleinir, has been forged.

 

Which brought back to mind again that Perrin and Mat are based on Thor and Odin, or, at least in the context of the WoTverse, the norse mythology of Thor and Odin are based on Perrin and Mat. Which shows that, in the WoTverse, they are in our past and in our future.

 

And, so while I've fought the idea in the past, Mat and Perrin come around every turning of the Wheel for these roles. They're Heroes, not just random ta'veren. I don't think the Wheel would create two random ta'veren every turning to fulfill the same role each and every time, that's a Hero's job. Apparently a lot of people think that the hammer being named something similar to Mjöllnir is just a cheesy allusion and the point of the series just flies over their heads.

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